T21 Set Bonus Analysis

[Archimtiros]

Since the other thread is mainly regarding the visual appearance of Tier 21, rather than the effects.



Keep in mind, this is a very early look, as T21 is still quite a ways off. Likewise, all of this is subject to change, though it gives us some idea of what to look forward to.

The Arms 2p reads as though it's a debuff applied alongside Colossus Smash, meaning it should apply to multiple target, and be incredibly potent alongside Bladestorm/Ravager during Battle Cry. It also,

• Boosts the weight of crit slightly.
• Increases the value of Precise Strikes and Deathblow (artifact traits).
• Very likely double-dips with Corrupted Blood (increase crit damage of ability, damage rolls into CBlood, increases crit damage of CBlood).
• Synergizes very well with Titanic Might (maybe too well, considering Rend/TM are already dominant talents) and Weight of the Earth (legendary pants).

The Arms 4p seems simple, but being able to stack gives it a surprising amount of depth.

• Above 20%, it's passive, and the stacking mechanic allows it to function even during chain Tactician procs.
• Below 20%, the buff can be stacked while rotating Mortal Strike and Execute, until a greatly empowered Whirlwind/Slam is built up with a high +damage and +crit chance, which should then benefit from the 2p +crit damage.

The Fury 2p causes Rampage to bleed, similar to Bloodbath. It reads as though only the primary target (similar to the legendary pants) gets the bleed, and doesn't count damage cleaved onto other targets via Meat Cleaver. That said it works with every Rampage, and...

• Synergizes well with Reckless Abandon, Massacre, the Soul of the Battlelord (legendary ring), and the Valarjar Berserkers (legendary pants), especially during Battle Cry.
• Benefits from Frothing Berserker, since the bleed is based on Rampage's own damage.
• Has potential for double-dipping; if the damage increase from Frothing Berserker, Unrivaled Strength, Enrage, etc, apply to both Rampage, making the bleed bigger, and the bleed itself after the fact.

The Fury 4p reads as though it does increase all Rampage damage, including cleaved damage. However, it also only specifies Rampage, which means it could be contentious below 20%.

• Without Massacre, the bonus would have to be very large to be worth spending 3.4 Executes worth of rage and losing Juggernaut stacks.
• Being based off Battle Cry, it heavily favors Convergence of Fates, although it's been implied that the trinket will be nerfed by T21.
• Actually doesn't favor Reckless Abandon or the Valarjar Berserkers, since it only buffs one Rampage per Battle Cry.

Overall, I like the bonuses, though they may favor certain talents and legendaries a bit too much (although at this point, I'm not sure it's possible not to). My major concern is with the Fury bonuses use of Rampage during Execute. In the Reddit AMA, the designers spoke about rebalancing Massacre, so this may be an intentional choice to reinforce the use of that talent/legendary ring, or it could simply be oversight. Of course, we have to wait for numbers before we can determine how strong the bonuses and any opportunity cost will be, though personally, I'm hoping that the Fury 4p isn't an oversight, and is a prelude to reworking Fury Execute... but I'm not holding my breath just yet!

[Larynx]

The Prot 4pc is making a fairly brazen assumption that Prot will be able to generate enough Ignore Pain to mitigate more than a single auto-attack.

[Deleted]

Why do people have to analyse everything in this game? Just play the game and enjoy it. I don't get it since 12 years now. I'm calculating every day at work.

[Archimtiros]

Why do people have to analyse everything in this game? Just play the game and enjoy it. I don't get it since 12 years now. I'm calculating every day at work.

Why do people have to be judgmental over everything they don't understand or agree with? Just move on and let us enjoy the game we want to.

Believe it or not, some people enjoy critical thinking.

[Vycaus]

Why do people have to be judgmental over everything they don't understand or agree with? Just move on and let us enjoy the game we want to.

Believe it or not, some people enjoy critical thinking.

Lol here here! Bring on the theory crafting! Man this game would be boring without it.

[bibby]

Sounds like Sweeping strikes may = a 3x stack to the Arms 4pc bonus, unless it counts by cast. else that sounds OP.

[Archimtiros]

Sounds like Sweeping strikes may = a 3x stack to the Arms 4pc bonus, unless it counts by cast. else that sounds OP.

Maybe; I imagine it would be based off cast rather than hit though, typically on-hit effects say something like "when X deals damage".

[Alaexaender]

My major concern is the prot warrior 2-piece seems pretty awful.

Gameplay wise, it's essentially just a passive, since demo shout is used on CD a lot of the time. Also, currently SB uptime is part of optimizing the class, but if this effect is too strong, then that skill will be unnecessary. Another effect would be if no skill is needed to keep 100% uptime on SB at current haste levels, then to optimize mitigation you may be forced to lower haste, which I feel most prot warriors would dislike. However, if it is not strong enough to cause these issues, then it's barely having an effect, and is therefore too weak.

The 4-piece is interesting, and depends entirely on the numbers. I don't like it too much, since it's again almost entirely passive (we should be blocking every attack and have IP up at all times). Also, we once again have an internal cd on our 4-piece, which feels pretty awful. Lastly, the bonus is once again completely useless if we aren't being autoed, such as while off-tanking, or during a channel.

[f3llyn]

Why do people have to analyse everything in this game? Just play the game and enjoy it. I don't get it since 12 years now. I'm calculating every day at work.

This is how you cultivate feedback. By talking about stuff and analyzing it.

[Kirbydude65]

For Arms:

While not as flashy as our T20 set bonus (It's gonna be a while before we get something that cool again), it most certainly synergizes and improves the piss poor stat that is Critical Strike for us. It could push Anger Management back to our go-to talent at 100, once again if tuning favors it (and also the inevitable changes that will happen between now and T21).

So while not super exciting visually, it's a potent effect game play wise. I'm cool with this idea for our tier bonuses.

For Fury:

These bonuses seem ok, but really kind of boring. Additional X damage tacked onto rampage, with Battle Cry increasing rampage seems unintuitive, and uncreative. I feel like Fury has gotten the short end of the stick with this one with interesting game play changes.

For Prot:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't play Prot at high level any more so...?

[Alaexaender]

[QUOTE=Kirbydude65;46467018]For Arms:

While not as flashy as our T20 set bonus (It's gonna be a while before we get something that cool again), it most certainly synergizes and improves the piss poor stat that is Critical Strike for us. It could push Anger Management back to our go-to talent at 100, once again if tuning favors it (and also the inevitable changes that will happen between now and T21).

Not an arms warrior main, but the crit part worries me. Generally, having a set synergize with a bad stat isn't as good as a stat which synergizes with a good stat.

[Archimtiros]

Not an arms warrior main, but the crit part worries me. Generally, having a set synergize with a bad stat isn't as good as a stat which synergizes with a good stat.

It actually synergizes quite well; Battle Cry gives 100% crit, Precise Strikes increases MS/Executes crit, and the 4p boosts WW/Slam crit, and WW/Bladestorm/Ravager hit enough times to cause crits through probability alone.

Those things that make Crit a mediocre stat for Arms are the same things that make the 2p strong - Arms gets a lot of crits without needing much of the stat.

[Archimtiros]

A few updates:



Arms

• 2p is more than a simple rewording; since the effect is now a standalone buff and no longer tied to Colossus Smash itself, it doesn't interact with Titanic Might anymore. In short, this means you can't have 100% uptime on the effect, which would have been ridiculously powerful.
• 4p caps at 3 stacks, which means you can't guarantee a crit out of it. The only question is whether or not it'll be worth spending rage to consume max stacks sub-20% in lieu of using Execute.

Fury

• 2p is 30% over 30s, in my gear that's worth ~9k DPS not including crits, Unrivaled Strength, 4p empowerment, or the potential for cleave. Remember ,the effect ignites, so the 30s duration isn't debilitating outside of the target dying quickly after a Rampage; it's likely that the long duration is meant to limit the potential for abuse in burst situations.
• 4p still has no coefficient, though I imagine it'd have to be rather high, given how infrequently Battle Cry is used without CoF. Remember that this increase also benefits the 2p as well.

Protection

• 2p seems ludicrously strong at 20s, pretty sure that'll go down to <10, so I wouldn't pay much attention to it just yet.
• 4p value is small, though could snowball into something serious. Nice synergy, but I'm more curious if Ignore Pain would stay up long enough for the effect to add up to anything.

[Apart]

The 4pc bonus for Protection looks kind of nice, increasing the value of Mastery a lot. I just wished, that on critical blocks, the bonus would also be increased. It does seems to be very strong vs. many opponents.

[Anuibus]

The 4pc bonus for Protection looks kind of nice, increasing the value of Mastery a lot. I just wished, that on critical blocks, the bonus would also be increased. It does seems to be very strong vs. many opponents.

I really don't think this will change mastery at all if the 2pc remains at it is with how often shield block would be up.

[Rafalga]

i don't thing you can utilize more than 2 stacks with the Arms 4p in most cases. Back to back procs are already a pretty rare occurrence. 3 procs in a row? Once in a fight tops. Very underwhelming set bonus.

[Archimtiros]

i don't thing you can utilize more than 2 stacks with the Arms 4p in most cases. Back to back procs are already a pretty rare occurrence. 3 procs in a row? Once in a fight tops. Very underwhelming set bonus.

I don't think so; it's no different from the T20 Fury 4p, which also stacks higher than it needs to.

The point of the stack limit isn't to max the stacks every time; it's to allow it to not interfere with, and benefit from, those times when you do get back to back Tactician procs. They could have just as easily made it a one stack bonus (and we've had many such bonuses in the past), but then getting lucky would have left you in the unlucky position of deciding whether to spend the stack and waste rage toward Tactician or wasting the stack - this is hands down better design.

[Rafalga]

I don't think so; it's no different from the T20 Fury 4p, which also stacks higher than it needs to.

The point of the stack limit isn't to max the stacks every time; it's to allow it to not interfere with, and benefit from, those times when you do get back to back Tactician procs. They could have just as easily made it a one stack bonus (and we've had many such bonuses in the past), but then getting lucky would have left you in the unlucky position of deciding whether to spend the stack and waste rage toward Tactician or wasting the stack - this is hands down better design.

i know what you mean Archi but what i meant by underwhelming was the bonuses as a whole. T20 currently with the helm synergies perfectly as a whole. When i look at this however all i see is some increased damage for tactician fishing phase and a crit dmg buff. It reads more like a patch note rather then a set bonus.

[Deleted]

prot 2 set would probably push Anger management over Heavy Reppercusion since you could possibly achieve 100% uptime on shield block with reduced CD on demo shout that gives you 26 sec on next shield block and in that window, your both charges would recharge. But dunno how that set would interact on max duration on shield block (18 sec) I guess it gets adjusted to 10 sec and it will be still really strong

4 set seems decent, It helps a lot on sustained damage (like harjatan dot)

This seems to be so far the strongest tanking t21 set

[Cecoura]

Arms: love t20 boni.. t21 is aids AF