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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Shot89 View Post
    Well balance is somewhat subjective. To me, everything is already balanced. Who is a serious raider (and probably focused on 1 class) shuold have almost all legendary by now. If you are a "casual", you don't need 2 BiS legendary, you can go fine with 2 random ones (and now you drop them super fast).
    What if you reroll or play hardcore to the point of needing multiple classes, or just unlucky.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Deliverer View Post
    any logs or armory link so we can take a look at what kind of content you take part in with your sephuz?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Legendaries gives people a reason to log and do world quests and other activities each day and blizzard knows that.. that's why they will probably stay even next expansion.

    I hope they won't or that they will be reworked.
    I love that people are so quick to doubt others. Do you think a single. Legendary will make a shit dps a god? If you're doing 500K that legendary isn't gonna push you over 1mil.

    Hitting those is pure skill and the legendary will help you break into the next bracket, it doesn't make you a good player.

  3. #63
    Reroll quest would be great.

    I have 6 trash legs now on my rogue. Last 2 were Will of Valeera and Sephuz's ring of shitness.

    Well, I have better leg RNG than Nethershards RNG. Already have 4 screenshots with "You have recieved loot: 1x Nethershard". Didn't even think the chances would be that high. I don't need the damn shards but Jesus, Christ, give me a break with the RNG.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeydivision82 View Post
    I love that people are so quick to doubt others. Do you think a single. Legendary will make a shit dps a god? If you're doing 500K that legendary isn't gonna push you over 1mil.

    Hitting those is pure skill and the legendary will help you break into the next bracket, it doesn't make you a good player.
    You said "I'm always top 3 dps in raids and almost always top dps in dungeons with only sephuz". Do you understand that being top 3 dps in lfr and being top dps in an heroic dungeon is not quite the same as being top dps in a world <100 guild?
    If you want to prove that skill > legendaries then give me some evidence and prove your point with logs.

    I agree that a bad dps will be bad anyway regardless of the legendary they have, but saying "legendaries don't matter at all because it's all about skill" is just wrong.

  5. #65
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    Why is this a thing we're worried about? System was kind of trashy when it launched, they've fixed it. At this point if you're doing any content at all where it matters, you've got all your legendaries. You're getting 1 legendary a week if you're doing content that matters. Easier than ever to catch up. If you're not in that 3% that raids Mythic, it doesn't matter, you're not getting benched or whatever for "bad legendaries." - Hopefully this system continues with minor tweaks going forward.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Deliverer View Post
    You said "I'm always top 3 dps in raids and almost always top dps in dungeons with only sephuz". Do you understand that being top 3 dps in lfr and being top dps in an heroic dungeon is not quite the same as being top dps in a world <100 guild?
    If you want to prove that skill > legendaries then give me some evidence and prove your point with logs.

    I agree that a bad dps will be bad anyway regardless of the legendary they have, but saying "legendaries don't matter at all because it's all about skill" is just wrong.
    Normal and Heroic, I don't consider LFR to be raiding so why would I include that?

    I also said in PUGS, you don't exactly PuG LFR in the same sense and you definitely don't PUG in top world guilds, so I think my statement was pretty clear to begin with.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeydivision82 View Post
    Normal and Heroic, I don't consider LFR to be raiding so why would I include that?

    I also said in PUGS, you don't exactly PuG LFR in the same sense and you definitely don't PUG in top world guilds, so I think my statement was pretty clear to begin with.
    You didn't say pugs in your original post. Your statement is not correct for all levels of play thats why I asked what content you are into.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    At this point if you're doing any content at all where it matters, you've got all your legendaries. You're getting 1 legendary a week if you're doing content that matters.
    You mean grinding M+ every day? Is that it? Because otherwise I don't see it.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Deliverer View Post
    You didn't say pugs in your original post. Your statement is not correct for all levels of play thats why I asked what content you are into.
    My mistake, I did mean to add PUGs into that.

    All levels of play? Sure, it may not be true for world first guilds, or even top 100% for the most part, but just because these 3 guilds have led the world first race doesn't guarantee that every member has these "mandatory" Legendaries, further proving that they aren't actually mandatory.

    In most aspects that people see for raiding which is Heroc and a few Mythic bosses, no, there is no such thing as a mandatory legendary either as all of the content can be completed with any combination on any number of players. This is an imaginary connection people have created.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by enzi View Post
    You mean grinding M+ every day? Is that it? Because otherwise I don't see it.
    To which part? The only time it matters what legendaries you have is if you're raiding Mythic raids, and only a very tiny portion of the population does that. If you're a Mythic raider you've got all of your legendaries by now. It's not hard. Running one high level Mythic+ per week, doing your emissary caches, and then whatever difficulty of raiding you do each week and the legendaries just pour in. And if you're not raiding Mythic who gives a fuck what legendaries you have? NOBODY is benching anyone for not having BiS legendaries in Heroic, shit pugs don't even do that.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonasol View Post
    How to fix the legendary problem? Remove them from the game
    Yup. I think this is the best solution. They cause more problem than it is worth.

  12. #72
    The only way they'd ever tinker with Legendaries beyond minor adjustments would be if they were testing ideas for the next expansion. I hope to never see that since Legendaries need to go the way of the dodo. Many are useless, others are almost a requirement for min-maxers/hardcore folks and the rest really don't add much fun to the game.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by The One Percent View Post
    The system does exactly what they designed it to do; force you to grind towards a goal that you have no guarantee of reaching.
    Best post in the thread tbh. Short, concise, and completely accurate.

    If the legendary seems unwarranted, grindy, and setting you up to be stuck without BiS forever, then that is because that is precisely what it was designed to do.

    IE; the legendary system sucks because it's supposed to suck. It is designed to keep you grinding forever.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radaney View Post
    How to fix legendaries: Make them utility only.
    except uttility is boring as fuck and not legendary at all
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  15. #75
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    Or....

    Leave the system as is and accept that the real problem with legendaries is people acting like spoiled children.

    There has never been a *need* to have your two BiS legendaries. With the way that their drop chances work, people have pretty much always been guaranteed to have have decent enough legendaries to meet the *need* criteria (since *need* is generally related to your level of play which dictates the amount of legendary awarding content you would be doing). Sadly though, some people just don't seem to be able to grasp that having your two BiS legendaries is far from a need. It's a nice to have. You can get by just fine by having your second and third best for example.

    One of the biggest complaints by people demanding that they get BiS is that they would otherwise lose their raid spot. I call BS on that one. What kind of a retarded raid leader is going to drop a highly skilled, long-standing team member because they didn't get lucky with RNG? No, at best this is going be an issue that affects the choice of who to bench for a particular raid session, between two raiders who were already close, just as has always happened with raid rosters because, you know, someone has to be benched...

    The other complaint is that people are upset that this will affect their personal rankings. Again, really? This is not something that is of any importance whatsoever, and is simply all about ego and immaturity. And as with the previous point, it has always been the case that some people will do better on the logs purely due to a RNG with lucky gear drops. If legendaries weren't a factor, then it would come down to who got their tier pieces early, or who got that awesome trinket, or (in past expansions) who got the BiS weapon. Or who got luckiest with Titanforged drops, or gems, or whatever. At the end of the day, all of us need to be able to look at our log rankings in perspective and know whether we're performing well with what we have, rather than whining like a child because some noob with better luck on the RNG front beat us.

    PS: Yes I realise this "truth" is going to be unpopular but that should never deter one from speaking honestly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Best post in the thread tbh. Short, concise, and completely accurate.

    If the legendary seems unwarranted, grindy, and setting you up to be stuck without BiS forever, then that is because that is precisely what it was designed to do.

    IE; the legendary system sucks because it's supposed to suck. It is designed to keep you grinding forever.
    Sorry but I think this, and the post by @The One Percent whom you were responding to are trite. The truism that you like to think is true, is in fact not. It's nothing more than popular opinion echoed around by people with little or no effort put into assessing its validity.

    Yes, the system does do what it was designed to do, but that was never to keep people "grinding forever".

    The legendary system is designed to reward people for doing content they enjoy doing. The fact that some people have decided that they need to grind to get legendaries is just people being silly.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    OSorry but I think this, and the post by @The One Percent whom you were responding to are trite. The truism that you like to think is true, is in fact not. It's nothing more than popular opinion echoed around by people with little or no effort put into assessing its validity.

    Yes, the system does do what it was designed to do, but that was never to keep people "grinding forever".

    The legendary system is designed to reward people for doing content they enjoy doing. The fact that some people have decided that they need to grind to get legendaries is just people being silly.
    I'm exaggerating on purpose, but there's a lot of truth to it. I'm mostly a casual player, so you can toss me any two legendaries and I'll be happy enough to stop grinding seriously for legendaries (unless my current legendaries encourage a playstyle I don't want to participate in). But for people that are pushing high end mythic+'s and mythic raiding, the best legendaries can give incredibly powerful boosts and while they don't force you to grind them out, it's absolutely something people work for day in and day out to get that extra 1%.

    I'm mocking the system tongue in cheek. It doesn't effect me directly because I don't care that much, but I know that it's a poorly designed system. Unless, again, that system is to keep serious hardcore players grinding endlessly until the RNG favors them. While you can get by with less than the best, for players who want the best, they will be grinding mythic +'s, LFR, and everything else they can possible do for the maximum possible results. And this, to be fair, benefits everyone involved and is, again, likely the intention of doing it.

    IMO, I would make it so you can trade in two legendaries for a token that lets you pick a specific one of your choice, but hey, that's just me. Or like someone said earlier, make all legendaries utility based. But I don't like making suggestions on the MMO-champ boards since it tends to rile people up rather than fostering creative discussions.

    TL;DR: I honestly don't care that much about the legendary system, but I acknowledge that it's genuinely poorly designed for people trying to get BiS gear and well designed to keep people grinding (and playing content). Take it as you will, friend.

  17. #77
    How to fix legendaries: never implement them.

    Let's go to Caverns of Time, we need to change the past

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReVnX View Post
    How to fix legendaries: never implement them.

    Let's go to Caverns of Time, we need to change the past
    This.
    /thread

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    for people that are pushing high end mythic+'s and mythic raiding, the best legendaries can give incredibly powerful boosts and while they don't force you to grind them out, it's absolutely something people work for day in and day out to get that extra 1%.
    Except wouldn't these high end players be pushing hard regardless of the legendary system?

    IMO poor design would mean pushing high end players to do content that they would not otherwise choose to do purely to try and get the legendaries. If someone is playing this game competitively (relative to other players) then it stands to reason that they're going to want to put more effort in than their competition. Surely then making mechanism which are more rewarding to groups that put more effort in makes sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    TL;DR: I honestly don't care that much about the legendary system, but I acknowledge that it's genuinely poorly designed for people trying to get BiS gear and well designed to keep people grinding (and playing content). Take it as you will, friend.
    And therein lies the crux of the problem: This ridiculous fixation on getting BiS. It's not how the game was designed to be played, nor should it be. The goal should be to see how close one can get to BiS within one's personal constraints. Getting worked up when one doesn't achieve BiS though, is entirely a problem of the players' own making.

    Personally I think the system is well thought out, it achieves the objectives of rewarding power fairly. Where it fails (and some might argue that it's poor design) is the attitude people apply to the system. Many would argue that the system should compensate for the failure of the players. Personally I would say that such is an impossible goal. To me it's a bit of a travesty. The arguments levelled against the legendaries are about as valid as the arguments used historically to burn women for witchcraft. And the people making those arguments seem equally convinced of their convictions.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Except wouldn't these high end players be pushing hard regardless of the legendary system?

    IMO poor design would mean pushing high end players to do content that they would not otherwise choose to do purely to try and get the legendaries. If someone is playing this game competitively (relative to other players) then it stands to reason that they're going to want to put more effort in than their competition. Surely then making mechanism which are more rewarding to groups that put more effort in makes sense?



    And therein lies the crux of the problem: This ridiculous fixation on getting BiS. It's not how the game was designed to be played, nor should it be. The goal should be to see how close one can get to BiS within one's personal constraints. Getting worked up when one doesn't achieve BiS though, is entirely a problem of the players' own making.

    Personally I think the system is well thought out, it achieves the objectives of rewarding power fairly. Where it fails (and some might argue that it's poor design) is the attitude people apply to the system. Many would argue that the system should compensate for the failure of the players. Personally I would say that such is an impossible goal. To me it's a bit of a travesty. The arguments levelled against the legendaries are about as valid as the arguments used historically to burn women for witchcraft. And the people making those arguments seem equally convinced of their convictions.
    BiS is a valid goal for people to strive for, but the real reason it matters is to push world/region/server firsts on mythic content. You know, competitive raiding. 1% makes a big difference, and unless I am mistaken good legendaries can give much more than 1% advantages. It's not a minor loot upgrade.

    I can't speak for what mythic raiders would or would not be doing as I do not raid mythic and would not be able to tolerate that kind of playstyle. That said, it's not a matter of "they'd be playing hard regardless" it's a matter of "they are being held back dramatically by legendaries they cannot obtain thanks to a cruel and merciless RNG". Stuff like this gets competent raiders benched and less competent raiders a spot on rosters just because they got lucky rolls.

    Now don't get me wrong, it's certainly not always like this, but it's a bad system that can potentially encourage bad behavior and nothing is more frustrating than being punished by the RNG.
    Last edited by therealbowser; 2017-07-19 at 11:01 AM.

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