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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    Eorzea doesn't tend to be much different, though. The only reason it has not pushed for complete annihilation of the Beast Tribes itself is due to having the Warrior of Light to solve the Primal threat. Unlike the Garleans, Eorzeans also have the ability to wield magic. Even within Eorzea there's a lot of persecution and discrimination against the Beast Tribes. They were kicked out of Ul'dah outright, for instance - and Limsa breached a peace treaty established with those that resided in Vylbrand.

    Garlemald's stance, whilst harsh, is efficient in the grand scheme of things from the perspective of those who do not have the convenient 'quick fix' that is the Warrior of Light. They are very much well intentioned extremists who are willing to put the many over the few. They may very well be misguided, but the protagonists never seem to acknowledge the fact that the only reason their own allies aren't resorting to such measures is due to the Warrior of Light being able to solve their problems for them.
    But Eorzea is different. You see Qiqirn in Limsa. You have divisions of Beast Tribes acknowledged as different from one another (granted, through the WoL's diplomatic actions, but again, if you remove that......no gameplay). Technically it was a lalafell that began relations with the Ixal, not the WoL. And in some cases I seem to recall the beast tribes approached Alliance outposts that kick off the beast tribe quests we open.

    While there have been issues between the city states and beast tribes, the indication has been Garlemald doesn't see a difference. They're all vermin. One is as vermin as the other, regardless of whether they're Primal summoning or not.

    "Genocide is efficient in the grand scheme of things" <--- That's why Yoshi doesn't want players sympathizing with the Garleans.

    And saying Garlemald put the many over the few? Garlemald is small. They subjugate, oppress, enslave, and further the machine of war to force the many to serve the few. They're not a massive population, they enslave others to serve themselves. The tragedy, the sympathizing, is meant to be in their origin, not in the here and now.

    You understand what drove him to extremes and you sympathize with that, but you're not supposed to support Magneto's views of oppression or eradication of all humanity for the sake of his own people. Garlemald seems like they're supposed to be more along that line.

    As for a convenient 'quick fix' ..... again, how do you propose removing the player from resolving situations in a video game? They just tell you things came up and someone else handled it so you can keep.... I dunno what, doing hunts or FATEs?

    Also, nothing indicates that Eorzea was at peace for the last 50 years. Beast tribes have summoned Primals far longer than the last 3 or so years that we've been present. Others have dealt with Primal threats prior to the WoL, so there's nothing to indicate that the city states would be employing Garlean methods if not for the WoL's presence.


    I will say my one disappointment in 2.0 was setting up the player as "THE Warrior of Light" whereas the first mention actually stated you were "like a Warrior of Light." You reminded them of the GROUP the Warriors of Light from 1.0 that disappeared at Carteneau (or you are one of them if you're a veteran player). I wish they had kept the 1.0 premise that the Scions found people with the echo and that there were Warriors of Light (plural). It would especially fit better with the FF theme (the party were referred to as the WoL, plural again) and it would make more sense than "You're the only one who can resist being enslaved to the will of a Primal..... so go get 7 friends and face them!" >_o
    Last edited by Faroth; 2017-07-17 at 06:38 PM.

  2. #182
    The last conflict I know of was the autumn war over 100 years ago as far as war between city states. I'm not sure if primals were a problem before the silver tear falls battle or not.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Honestly, if they were going to dive into the backstory of Zenos, they had a very convenient plot device with The Echo with which to do it. What little they've already given us about his backstory has already come largely from survivors who've seen him fighting, it would be very lazy of them to, I don't know... Have the Emperor show up and hit us with an Exposition Dump.

    At this point do we even really care about him any more? The big bad of the expansion has been killed, it's time to move on to bigger and badder guys to kill, not spend a couple of patch cycles telling us who we've already beaten is. The story should be moving forwards, not going back to catch the audience up on what has already happened.
    What I was getting at is that perhaps future developments throughout SB are a result of things that were being done (or about to be done) by Zenos; the magitek experimentation being one such thing. Perhaps there's more such things we'll uncover that he was up to.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Y'shtola would have been shock value for the sake of shock value and not much real purpose other than "death of character to motivate revenge." That's not exactly compelling in its own so much as cliche as hell, which people are complaining about to begin with.

    I'd have gone with Krile having more weight because it was a failure on the Scions part + you could have been forced to fight her.

    Alisae hasn't had development, so her death would have largely been uneventful other than just "a Scion died" and you could have Alphinaud's mourning. Alphinaud himself might have been celebrated by some players.

    We've scratched two original Scions, killed a third that was introduced for the purpose of dying, and written another one out of the story now.

    Y'sthola and Thancred are the only original scions left.
    Alphinaud & Alisae were the first additions.
    Krile is the newest added.

    Seems like they keep the core Scions to around 5 characters (plus Urianger, but we need him for convenient plot devices and exposition now and then).



    I think Square has reached the point where nothing they do is going to be good enough for the players anymore. I'm honestly surprised how much so many here seem to hate Stormblood.

    But such is the Internet, where people can't stop talking about how much they hate something yet can't stop playing/talking about it. /shrug
    With either Alisae or Krile dying, that would pretty much cement the majority of the playerbase wanting Fordola's head on a pike, especially were it the former (who has turned into a likable character, imo). Krile getting axed by the experimentation or whatever would've given credence to the idea that we can't be Mary Sue WoLs saving everyone and everything. For a while I was thinking that perhaps Thancred would be one they would off, but since he's prone to the espionage type work on his own, it works fine for him to be off screen for a while (as he was for the last half of HW, so it seemed).

    I mean...we just liberated 2 entire nations from decades of imperial rule, with all of 2 named characters actually eating dirt. We lost at least that many people just showing Ishgard their entire society was built upon a lie...although given different cultural backgrounds, one could very well argue that such acts are as gasp-worthy as freeing nations from tyranny. At least with the folks in HW, the writers worked them in plenty enough to establish them with the player character.

    I would be a bit irked were Alphinaud to be killed off at this point. His development as a character is probably one of the story's highlights...and yes, at one time I would've been perfectly happy were he dead, lol.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    Perhaps delving into the backstory of Fordola and/or Yotsuyu will reveal more about the background of Zenos in return, or at least shed some light on his actions/behavior. Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I'm of the mindset that we'll learn more about him (through others) from 4.1-4.3ish, maybe longer.
    It's too late for that though. The story arc has passed. Giving an explanation after the fact is somewhat nice I suppose, but it does nothing to help the already concluded section of the story that was mediocre for it's absence.

    Arena Net tried this with one of their characters in GW2 (Scarlet). After she died, and long after everyone thought she was a terrible character with a crappy story arc, they fed us background details explaining her motives.
    But it was too late, we had already had the experience of it being a shitty story at that point. It might help improve the character when looking at all the information about them after the fact on a wiki page, but it doesn't do anything to help the story telling at that point.

    edit: referring to info on Zenos, not the other two. And that's not to say the info would be unwelcome either.
    Last edited by Arewn; 2017-07-17 at 07:55 PM.

  5. #185
    For the record, I don't dislike Stormblood. I think it's the best in terms of story so far. For me, though, the reason I love the Final Fantasy franchise as a whole is because it typically does a great job at creating complicated antagonists both major and minor. My two favourite games out of the numbered titles are IX and XII for precisely that reason. At no point does either game try to shove modern day concepts of morality down the player's throats nor do they take the approach of 'A, B and C have to be punished at all costs because they're the bad guys'.

    Many of the antagonists involved in IX, for instance, were tied to attempted and actual genocide but the game and developers didn't make a point of trying to lecture players. In fact, the game was written in such a way as to encourage players to sympathise with the antagonists just as often as with the protagonists. XII was very politically driven and dismantled the tiresome 'Evil Empire' trope by making things very nuanced and complicated as well.

    Garlemald deserves the same treatment. Which is precisely what I'm hoping for. I don't want to dismantle the Garlean Empire. I don't want to see the likes of Varis, Gaius and Regula killed for the sake of glory by the self righteous protagonists who have convenient plot devices at their disposal and never have to truly worry about having to resort to desperate, dubious measures for the sake of their own survival. I

    The antagonists, too, have their own reasons for fighting - and so it's very worrying for me that Yoshi-P doesn't want people to sympathise with Garlemald. I'm hoping that's just a translation issue - because that isn't 'Final Fantasy' to me. Or many other people, I'd wager. I'm just hoping that we start seeing the better elements of Garlemald soon and the cost of war is reflected on both sides of the conflict rather than just one.

    Fordola and Yotsuyu being left alive is promising, though - but I'll be disappointed if they just end up being redeemed in such a way as to have them turn against Garlemald completely and loathe themselves for what they did. From their perspective, after all, they had their own reasons to fight for Garlemald. Whether or not they were misguided is another matter entirely.

    I'm hoping the Garlean Consulate in Kugane is used as a staging ground for attempted diplomacy with the more reasonable elements of Garlemald as it's pretty disgusting that Regula sacrificed his life for the Scions and there's not a hint of acknowledgement or pause when it comes to killing Garleans on the part of the Warrior of Light and Scions.

    I just want them to commit to the shades of grey they've established. There's a side quest that involves dealing with a Garlean commander in Gyr Abania who is beloved by the Ala Mhigans he was leading. They threaten to kick out the Eorzean Alliance and Resistance if they intend to lay a finger on that same commander. I thought that was pretty great.

    ...yet it's tucked away in a side quest, much like Regula's heroic sacrifice and demise. It needs to be more central and tied to the MSQ's to make things less one sided. To force the protagonists to acknowledge such nuances.

    I'll admit, I'm hopeful that things with Garlemald will be suitably exciting and nuanced. I'm just wary after WoW screwed me over repeatedly where blood elves and their justifications for their actions were concerned. I'm also a role-player, so naturally I'm pretty heavily invested in the game's lore.
    Last edited by Graeham; 2017-07-17 at 08:20 PM.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Arewn View Post
    It's too late for that though. The story arc has passed. Giving an explanation after the fact is somewhat nice I suppose, but it does nothing to help the already concluded section of the story that was mediocre for it's absence.

    Arena Net tried this with one of their characters in GW2 (Scarlet). After she died, and long after everyone thought she was a terrible character with a crappy story arc, they fed us background details explaining her motives.
    But it was too late, we had already had the experience of it being a shitty story at that point. It might help improve the character when looking at all the information about them after the fact on a wiki page, but it doesn't do anything to help the story telling at that point.

    edit: referring to info on Zenos, not the other two. And that's not to say the info would be unwelcome either.
    The point I'm trying to convey, albeit poorly (imo), is that I don't expect the name Zenos to be wiped from the board completely and to never be mentioned again.

    Hell, it may be years before he's brought up again at some point. Gaius was defeated around this time 4 years ago (real time), and we've just recently been introduced to the Skulls. We realize he's a significant figure to those people, Fordola included. They can be much more subtle about it than the example of Scarlet from GW2, where it was one of the typical "you think I'm crazy but I'm trying to save the world, you'll see!" plot devices that are kinda meh. On that note, I suppose I lucked out in a way, because I didn't play GW2 for pretty much the entirety of LS Season 1, although that left me to miss out on some of the few bits of story that are no longer replayable...but that's another can of worms for another forum.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    The point I'm trying to convey, albeit poorly (imo), is that I don't expect the name Zenos to be wiped from the board completely and to never be mentioned again.

    Hell, it may be years before he's brought up again at some point. Gaius was defeated around this time 4 years ago (real time), and we've just recently been introduced to the Skulls. We realize he's a significant figure to those people, Fordola included. They can be much more subtle about it than the example of Scarlet from GW2, where it was one of the typical "you think I'm crazy but I'm trying to save the world, you'll see!" plot devices that are kinda meh. On that note, I suppose I lucked out in a way, because I didn't play GW2 for pretty much the entirety of LS Season 1, although that left me to miss out on some of the few bits of story that are no longer replayable...but that's another can of worms for another forum.
    Ahh, yea that makes sense. And I agree, I'm sure we'll see him referenced at times where appropriate.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    For the record, I don't dislike Stormblood. I think it's the best in terms of story so far. For me, though, the reason I love the Final Fantasy franchise as a whole is because it typically does a great job at creating complicated antagonists both major and minor. My two favourite games out of the numbered titles are IX and XII for precisely that reason. At no point does either game try to shove modern day concepts of morality down the player's throats nor do they take the approach of 'A, B and C have to be punished at all costs because they're the bad guys'.

    Many of the antagonists involved in IX, for instance, were tied to attempted and actual genocide but the game and developers didn't make a point of trying to lecture players. In fact, the game was written in such a way as to encourage players to sympathise with the antagonists just as often as with the protagonists. XII was very politically driven and dismantled the tiresome 'Evil Empire' trope by making things very nuanced and complicated as well.

    Garlemald deserves the same treatment. Which is precisely what I'm hoping for. I don't want to dismantle the Garlean Empire. I don't want to see the likes of Varis, Gaius and Regula killed for the sake of glory by the self righteous protagonists who have convenient plot devices at their disposal and never have to truly worry about having to resort to desperate, dubious measures for the sake of their own survival. I

    The antagonists, too, have their own reasons for fighting - and so it's very worrying for me that Yoshi-P doesn't want people to sympathise with Garlemald. I'm hoping that's just a translation issue - because that isn't 'Final Fantasy' to me. Or many other people, I'd wager. I'm just hoping that we start seeing the better elements of Garlemald soon and the cost of war is reflected on both sides of the conflict rather than just one.

    Fordola and Yotsuyu being left alive is promising, though - but I'll be disappointed if they just end up being redeemed in such a way as to have them turn against Garlemald completely and loathe themselves for what they did. From their perspective, after all, they had their own reasons to fight for Garlemald. Whether or not they were misguided is another matter entirely.

    I'm hoping the Garlean Consulate in Kugane is used as a staging ground for attempted diplomacy with the more reasonable elements of Garlemald as it's pretty disgusting that Regula sacrificed his life for the Scions and there's not a hint of acknowledgement or pause when it comes to killing Garleans on the part of the Warrior of Light and Scions.

    I just want them to commit to the shades of grey they've established. There's a side quest that involves dealing with a Garlean commander in Gyr Abania who is beloved by the Ala Mhigans he was leading. They threaten to kick out the Eorzean Alliance and Resistance if they intend to lay a finger on that same commander. I thought that was pretty great.

    ...yet it's tucked away in a side quest, much like Regula's heroic sacrifice and demise. It needs to be more central and tied to the MSQ's to make things less one sided. To force the protagonists to acknowledge such nuances.

    I'll admit, I'm hopeful that things with Garlemald will be suitably exciting and nuanced. I'm just wary after WoW screwed me over repeatedly where blood elves and their justifications for their actions were concerned. I'm also a role-player, so naturally I'm pretty heavily invested in the game's lore.
    Garlemald isn't even the real "big bad" in the overall scheme of things; they've just been a really convenient proxy bad, complete with genocidal tendencies (towards beast tribes and primals) along with conquering/subjugating other nations. I'm honestly more surprised that imperial intelligence hasn't come to the conclusion that the WoL basically serves as a rogue agent of the Empire's decree to eradicate primals from the planet and thus decide to let us run amok...but I suppose it would've led to the events of SB anyhow, had they decided to go that route. I mean...it did Regula a lot of good to come to that realization.

    That being said...I will freely admit that every time an Ascian becomes involved with something, my reaction is "Oh noes, the boogeymen are back at it!". This may be a result of Elidibus being the lead for them since Lahabrea was vanquished, though; they seem to have taken to working more behind the scenes and trying to be subtle. Don't want the WoL to show up at their base with a chunk of auracite, after all...

    I agree with the sentiment that there should be some explanation of things from the antagonist PoV, whether or not we the players agree with them in the end. Far more interesting than simply "they're the bad guys, beat them up for loot".

    I believe that particular sidequest was one of them for unlocking an aether current, and I thought that was a rather interesting way to explain how the resistance was able to take that base with little to no bloodshed. Goes to show that simply wanting to wipe out the Empire entirely would be a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    I'm almost willing to bet Fordola ends up being some sort of redemption story...although how you redeem someone who gave the order to murder their own people (albeit with some degree of reluctance) could be interesting, I suppose. She could be an individual case of where you see something that you're pining for, perspective from someone on the "other side", even if she isn't an imperial per se. Honestly have no idea what they do with Yotsuyu.

  9. #189
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    No need to go for a full redemption, in fact that'd probably be the worse choice for Fordola. We know she was only serving the empire because she thought that was the best way to win her people some measure of freedom, now that she's seen that they can have genuine freedom, i don't see why she'd stick with that mindset (after a while, not immediately). She'd still have an antagonistic attitude, just working with us/Lyse/Ala Mhigo because they all want the same thing in the end.

    As for Zenos, I liked him. I didn't sympathise with him but occasionally it's nice to have a villain who just fights for the rush of battle rather than some deep melodramatic reason.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    Garlemald deserves the same treatment. Which is precisely what I'm hoping for. I don't want to dismantle the Garlean Empire. I don't want to see the likes of Varis, Gaius and Regula killed for the sake of glory by the self righteous protagonists who have convenient plot devices at their disposal and never have to truly worry about having to resort to desperate, dubious measures for the sake of their own survival.
    But they weren't killed for glory... they were killed while invading a land to occupy it, force its people into servitude, and tear their lives apart so they could fuel the Garleans war machine. While there are some XII similarities, the Garlean Empire seems far more similar to VI's empire. Though that should give you some hope as the Emperor wasn't the crazy evil that Kefka was.


    The antagonists, too, have their own reasons for fighting - and so it's very worrying for me that Yoshi-P doesn't want people to sympathise with Garlemald. I'm hoping that's just a translation issue - because that isn't 'Final Fantasy' to me. Or many other people, I'd wager. I'm just hoping that we start seeing the better elements of Garlemald soon and the cost of war is reflected on both sides of the conflict rather than just one.
    There was no reason to sympathize with the Empire in II or VI, nor Shinra as a company in VII, nor the villainess herself in VIII (though she's probably more an Ascian). There were individuals within the Empire that were sympathetic, but the heads of the snake were driving it in the wrong direction. Keep in mind, Garlemald HAS gone through a civil war over succession to the throne, so the Empire may have something of a splinter with a group within wanting a change in direction. I could see that being a possible direction. Think of it as the difference between Cid "Freedom through technology" versus Nero's approach. There may be a side to the Garlean Empire that wants to settle into prosperity and share technology with the world rather than "share it" by conquest and oppression of "savages."

    It's just not the side that won the war of succession.

    I'm hoping the Garlean Consulate in Kugane is used as a staging ground for attempted diplomacy with the more reasonable elements of Garlemald as it's pretty disgusting that Regula sacrificed his life for the Scions and there's not a hint of acknowledgement or pause when it comes to killing Garleans on the part of the Warrior of Light and Scions.
    I could like it, but I bet the player base wouldn't like a lot of preachy "we're just as bad as they are because we fight them" cut scenes. I honestly can't really find much room for pointing the finger against the Eorzeans just yet. They've fought off an occupying invasion.... it's not like they've gone out seeking to kill Garleans for the sake of it. Hell, they didn't WANT to get involved in Ala Mhigo's resistance if not for the apparent declaration of war by Ilberd and the drive to keep Omega out of the enemy's hands. Though I suppose there could have been an opportunity there for them to have shown a diplomatic envoy in Ala Mhigo being killed by Zenos to ensure war.

    I just want them to commit to the shades of grey they've established. There's a side quest that involves dealing with a Garlean commander in Gyr Abania who is beloved by the Ala Mhigans he was leading. They threaten to kick out the Eorzean Alliance and Resistance if they intend to lay a finger on that same commander. I thought that was pretty great.
    The General Leon to Garlemald's Gestahl Empire. Honestly, I did expect that to be a bigger emphasis based on the lyrics of Stormblood. But again, we've got an entire expansion left to see how it plays out. Characters like that could be what spurs an invasion of Garlemald to overthrow the current regime in favor of another.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    Garlemald isn't even the real "big bad" in the overall scheme of things; they've just been a really convenient proxy bad, complete with genocidal tendencies (towards beast tribes and primals) along with conquering/subjugating other nations. I'm honestly more surprised that imperial intelligence hasn't come to the conclusion that the WoL basically serves as a rogue agent of the Empire's decree to eradicate primals from the planet and thus decide to let us run amok...but I suppose it would've led to the events of SB anyhow, had they decided to go that route. I mean...it did Regula a lot of good to come to that realization.

    That being said...I will freely admit that every time an Ascian becomes involved with something, my reaction is "Oh noes, the boogeymen are back at it!". This may be a result of Elidibus being the lead for them since Lahabrea was vanquished, though; they seem to have taken to working more behind the scenes and trying to be subtle. Don't want the WoL to show up at their base with a chunk of auracite, after all...
    I personally think Garlemald is going to be addressed and resolved in 5.0 (maybe 6.0) and we'll shift to fighting Ascians grand plans for 6.0/7.0 and possibly a second expansion. That would be almost 12-14 years for the MMO and I could see Square doing a final story expansion/patch akin to FFXI at that point.

    I mean, think about that one scene were it looks like there were a dozen or a couple dozen Ascians gathered. There's a lot of them....

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    But they weren't killed for glory... they were killed while invading a land to occupy it, force its people into servitude, and tear their lives apart so they could fuel the Garleans war machine. While there are some XII similarities, the Garlean Empire seems far more similar to VI's empire. Though that should give you some hope as the Emperor wasn't the crazy evil that Kefka was.




    There was no reason to sympathize with the Empire in II or VI, nor Shinra as a company in VII, nor the villainess herself in VIII (though she's probably more an Ascian). There were individuals within the Empire that were sympathetic, but the heads of the snake were driving it in the wrong direction. Keep in mind, Garlemald HAS gone through a civil war over succession to the throne, so the Empire may have something of a splinter with a group within wanting a change in direction. I could see that being a possible direction. Think of it as the difference between Cid "Freedom through technology" versus Nero's approach. There may be a side to the Garlean Empire that wants to settle into prosperity and share technology with the world rather than "share it" by conquest and oppression of "savages."

    It's just not the side that won the war of succession.



    I could like it, but I bet the player base wouldn't like a lot of preachy "we're just as bad as they are because we fight them" cut scenes. I honestly can't really find much room for pointing the finger against the Eorzeans just yet. They've fought off an occupying invasion.... it's not like they've gone out seeking to kill Garleans for the sake of it. Hell, they didn't WANT to get involved in Ala Mhigo's resistance if not for the apparent declaration of war by Ilberd and the drive to keep Omega out of the enemy's hands. Though I suppose there could have been an opportunity there for them to have shown a diplomatic envoy in Ala Mhigo being killed by Zenos to ensure war.



    The General Leon to Garlemald's Gestahl Empire. Honestly, I did expect that to be a bigger emphasis based on the lyrics of Stormblood. But again, we've got an entire expansion left to see how it plays out. Characters like that could be what spurs an invasion of Garlemald to overthrow the current regime in favor of another.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I personally think Garlemald is going to be addressed and resolved in 5.0 (maybe 6.0) and we'll shift to fighting Ascians grand plans for 6.0/7.0 and possibly a second expansion. That would be almost 12-14 years for the MMO and I could see Square doing a final story expansion/patch akin to FFXI at that point.

    I mean, think about that one scene were it looks like there were a dozen or a couple dozen Ascians gathered. There's a lot of them....
    Just remember, I can't remember which interview it was in, but Yoshida said his plan is to direct two more expansions, which will wrap up the Garlemald and ascian story line. Looking at the map, the clouded over area is pretty large. I wonder if we clear up the southern section first, then move into garlemald with the second expansion. Yoshida tells his story and passes the game on to his successor to take us to a new continent.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Resiak View Post
    Just remember, I can't remember which interview it was in, but Yoshida said his plan is to direct two more expansions, which will wrap up the Garlemald and ascian story line. Looking at the map, the clouded over area is pretty large. I wonder if we clear up the southern section first, then move into garlemald with the second expansion. Yoshida tells his story and passes the game on to his successor to take us to a new continent.
    That.... could actually be quite interesting from a director/producer view. Let him tell his story on Eorzean continent. Someone else handles the story of a new continent.

    But two more expansions, that's 10 years for an MMO. Pretty long by MMO standards and reasonable to expect subscriptions to decline. Who knows, that might be the end of FFXIV's story and we won't see new patches/expansions after that if profits aren't warranting it.

    Honestly, I'd also respect Square if they announced FFXIV's final story patch while the game was still doing well rather than trying to churn out anything just for the sake of keeping it going. I tend to respect any creative endeavor that tells their story and concludes rather than milking it.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2017-07-18 at 01:45 PM.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    Garlemald deserves the same treatment. Which is precisely what I'm hoping for. I don't want to dismantle the Garlean Empire. I don't want to see the likes of Varis, Gaius and Regula killed for the sake of glory by the self righteous protagonists who have convenient plot devices at their disposal and never have to truly worry about having to resort to desperate, dubious measures for the sake of their own survival.
    The biggest difference between the Garlean Empire and the Archadian Empire from XII is that the Archadians were, at their core decent people. And that was shown to the player very early on. Other then the occasional guard abusing their position, the soldiers are mostly shown as being... Well, human. They're worried about Dalmasca being over run by scary monsters, will give you hints and advice and even tell you where you can find the Hell Wyrm superboss.

    Even when you make your way to Archades proper, you learn that the people there value hard work, honesty and helping others. The effort was made all throughout XII to differentiate the people of Archades from the likes of Vayne, Cid and the Judges - Who all had their own agenda's that conflicted with ours. And it wasn't even all the Judges, Drace and Zargabarth were both shown to be committed to upholding the law and protecting the innocent.

    What qualities do the Garleans have? I mean... Cid is alright, but thats about it. Otherwise all we know about them really is that they're technologically advanced, magically impaired and consider imperial expansion their national sport. For them to go from being the bad guys to "guys like us" we need to spend more time not killing each other for that to happen. Only, that won't happen because the Garleans are too busy invading and oppressing people, and we're too busy fighting Primals, Ascians and extra dimensional robots.

    The only way it really can happen at this point is either through the old "Oh noes, something REALLY big and nasty that's going to kill all of us if we don't work together!" cliche, or through the "Hey guys, we're common Garleans who want to overthrow the Emperor and the enemy of my enemy is my friend" cliche. There is no good way for them to write their way out of this situation.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    That.... could actually be quite interesting from a director/producer view. Let him tell his story on Eorzean continent. Someone else handles the story of a new continent.

    But two more expansions, that's 10 years for an MMO. Pretty long by MMO standards and reasonable to expect subscriptions to decline. Who knows, that might be the end of FFXIV's story and we won't see new patches/expansions after that if profits aren't warranting it.

    Honestly, I'd also respect Square if they announced FFXIV's final story patch while the game was still doing well rather than trying to churn out anything just for the sake of keeping it going. I tend to respect any creative endeavor that tells their story and concludes rather than milking it.
    Ok, maybe not as absolute as i remembered, but his goal is to wrap up the story arch.

    http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xivs...h-m-1796345981

  15. #195
    How were everyone's job storylines this expansion? I thought mnk and smn were fairly good, though I was disappointed with pld and to a lesser extent sch because it seemed to be more setting up a potential 5.0 sch story than doing anything interesting in 4.0.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena Emberlin View Post
    How were everyone's job storylines this expansion? I thought mnk and smn were fairly good, though I was disappointed with pld and to a lesser extent sch because it seemed to be more setting up a potential 5.0 sch story than doing anything interesting in 4.0.
    I agree, SMN was pretty good, BRD was kind of meh, I don't care a lot for the Bard Squad, though it tied to the expansion fairly well. SCH was a bit odd, but I liked the instances for it a LOT more than that godawful mess that was the lvl 60 quest.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I personally think Garlemald is going to be addressed and resolved in 5.0 (maybe 6.0) and we'll shift to fighting Ascians grand plans for 6.0/7.0 and possibly a second expansion. That would be almost 12-14 years for the MMO and I could see Square doing a final story expansion/patch akin to FFXI at that point.
    ..
    To be honest I half expect them to put the Sharlayan expansion after Stormblood and by that I mean the home land of Alphinaud and Alisaie for the Ascians expansion.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    I agree, SMN was pretty good, BRD was kind of meh, I don't care a lot for the Bard Squad, though it tied to the expansion fairly well. SCH was a bit odd, but I liked the instances for it a LOT more than that godawful mess that was the lvl 60 quest.
    The instances were good in SCH, the quests themselves were good it just annoyed me that it seemed to just all be to get the white magic stone thing that won't be used until maybe 5.0.

    PLD left a lot to be desired for me. It's a tournament arc. The villain of the piece is just a lalafell who tries to make another contestant back out to fix a fight in your favor to make a lot of gil. You fight three one on one duels in the blood sand arena, beat up on a couple random thugs to free a hostage taken for the above purpose, then fight the last opponant who turns out to be the exiled gladiator guy from the gladiator story in disguise. While it was nice seeing the two gladiator npcs again, and it's necessarily a bad thing the story was more a gladiator story sequel than tying into past paladin storylines, I found the whole thing very underwhelming. At least we got a cool artifact set.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Karamaru View Post
    To be honest I half expect them to put the Sharlayan expansion after Stormblood and by that I mean the home land of Alphinaud and Alisaie for the Ascians expansion.
    Eventually I'm guessing we'll ally with the empire against Zodiark or something. The Ascians fill the 'sneaky in the shadows' bad guy position and the empire the more overt force to oppose, and I have a feeling said relationship between elidibus and the emperor won't last.
    Last edited by Florena; 2017-07-19 at 01:28 PM.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena Emberlin View Post
    How were everyone's job storylines this expansion? I thought mnk and smn were fairly good, though I was disappointed with pld and to a lesser extent sch because it seemed to be more setting up a potential 5.0 sch story than doing anything interesting in 4.0.
    I've heard BLM is pretty exciting "save the entire world from destruction" type stuff.

    I liked SAM a LOT, but I'm going to wager a lot of people won't care for it because it doesn't seem like high stakes. The 50-60 story is really great, traveling with your master and basically being a wandering bringer of justice. The 60-70 story is a little slow to start, but feels like something sufficiently out of Rurouni Kenshin.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I've heard BLM is pretty exciting "save the entire world from destruction" type stuff.
    That wouldn't be an inaccurate description. Though the method the story is delivered in is extremely weak imo.

    The SMN story on the other hand was reasonably solid, though I can't help but feel you should get your very own Prin pet as a reward for completing it. Unfortunately it does leave any future stories with very little room, you've already reached the limit of what even the old school Summoners could do and unlocked all the secrets of Alagan Summoners. The quest itself ends with you being able to Summon Bahamut. Where do you go from there? It's hard to expand on that when you're already the best around and have the biggest, meanest Summon you can get your hands on already.

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