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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Republicans are using the NHS' refusal to treat this kid as evidence of death panels and how evil socialized medicine is..
    Plus using it to shame people for not voting for the controversial Trump wall funding bill that it is attached to as an amendment.

    They are literally trying to guilt-trip people with a dying foreign baby.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #262
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Republicans are using the NHS' refusal to treat this kid as evidence of death panels and how evil socialized medicine is..
    "Death Panel" is rather retarded thing to say. In the US, it's the money and bureaucrats doing the decisions, who know jack shit about medicine. In our "evil socialized medicine", the decisions are left with the doctors.

    This experimental treatment was planned for him, btw. His condition deteriorated, and it became apparent it would not help him. The treatment have been used few times in the past, with little evidence of doing much of anything.
    Last edited by Santti; 2017-07-19 at 04:41 PM.

  3. #263
    Wow that guy is getting roasted about helping current citizens of the US get healthcare and whether they will be doing this for things that are actually treatable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Republicans are using the NHS' refusal to treat this kid as evidence of death panels and how evil socialized medicine is..
    Wouldn't the child have just died untreated without socialized medicine?

  4. #264
    Is this some social media movement to "save" him or something? What caused congress to care about giving medical treatment to a foreign kid that is already brain dead? I have seriously not kept up with this at all but apparently I should be.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    it isn't the parent's choice though. that's what the american folk here are missing ENTIRELY

    american law(s) do not apply to europe, and the european courts (britain is a part of europe in case you were unaware) deem child rights above parental rights.
    I'm well aware its part of Europe and their laws are different, doesn't change my opinion and hope that the parents somehow win this.
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    I'm well aware its part of Europe and their laws are different, doesn't change my opinion and hope that the parents somehow win this.
    Even in the US the courts have interfered on behalf of children when it comes to medical procedures.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Even in the US the courts have interfered on behalf of children when it comes to medical procedures.
    likely true, and i likely didn't follow it but depending on the details i'd likely disagree if it was like this case. I fully support the use of terminally ill patients as willing test subjects for procedures that may one day lead to a cure, in the case of a kid like this i defere that to the parents / guardians
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  8. #268
    The Lightbringer Izalla's Avatar
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    Thousands of children die every day but the world only cares about this kid because his parents refuse to do what many many other parents have had to do and accept that their child is, for all intents and purposes, already dead. It's disgusting how big of a story this has become when it should never have happened in the first place. Stop being selfish and let the poor kid go, christ.
    give up dat booty
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendra View Post
    <3
    For the matriarchy.

  9. #269
    Deleted
    Why is the American goverment getting involved? Do they intend to offer the same options to other children, unlikely, I was already disgusted by American doctors wanting to cash grab and experiment on a high profile baby BUT for the government to shamelessly PR grab well words fail me

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Experimentation on live kids that can't give a voice to their disagreement with being experimented on, cool.
    if the parents OK it, yep or non-responsive adults that have legal guardians empowered to make medical decisions. Its not the states business in cases where the Doc's have ruled a person terminally ill and just laying on their death bed anyway. Might as well make their death more meaningful.

    I'm not a parent but i do think i'd get some condolence knowing my kids death helped (even if it just more data) the next kid have a better chance vs just being dead.
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    if the parents OK it, yep or non-responsive adults that have legal guardians empowered to make medical decisions. Its not the states business in cases where the Doc's have ruled a person terminally ill and just laying on their death bed anyway. Might as well make their death more meaningful.

    I'm not a parent but i do think i'd get some condolence knowing my kids death helped (even if it just more data) the next kid have a better chance vs just being dead.
    But the parents are not doing it selfless reasons, they're doing it so they can spend a tiny amount longer with a son that doesn't even know who they are

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Algy View Post
    Is this some social media movement to "save" him or something? What caused congress to care about giving medical treatment to a foreign kid that is already brain dead? I have seriously not kept up with this at all but apparently I should be.
    Congress (well, a certain congressman) uses him as a token/example to bash single-payer healthcare, thus Obamacare is evul too.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    But the parents are not doing it selfless reasons, they're doing it so they can spend a tiny amount longer with a son that doesn't even know who they are
    ok so? still up to them imo. and the data provided via the trails will likely still help future tests/studies.
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    ok so? still up to them imo. and the data provided via the trails will likely still help future tests/studies.
    Not up to them, by the laws of the land they live in. Settled case. You can of course feel however you wish about it and more power to you.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    He's an 11 month old, severely brain damaged child. He literally can not make choices for himself. Someone has to have power over his life.
    How noble of you. It just so happens you concluded it is in the child's own best interest to kill him. You'll excuse me if I don't cheer you on Dr. Mengele.

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    ok so? still up to them imo. and the data provided via the trails will likely still help future tests/studies.
    I am of the opinion that once parents begin making irrational decisions that will unnecessarily cause suffering that the decision should be removed

  17. #277
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evangeliste View Post
    That kind of attitude really is like, why take medication to help with the seizures for Epilepsy even though it's incurable. You will still die with it.
    You're also saying that beforehand we shouldn't have done drug trials for those medicines on Epilepsy that people use nowadays because there was no guarantee they would help either, the knowledge didn't just pop out of thin air prior, it was discovered.
    Here in the UK, the nation provides for the NHS and taxation. That means others pay for others medication and so on. Should that revoked because again there's incurable illnesses so why bother trying to relieve people's suffering and/or improve their condition?

    Not sure how 10% chance translate to "every doctor said there's no chance". Because that's what medication for Epilepsy does, improves their condition. So they don't have a potential seizure that can possibly kill them.

    Why is one Epilepsy deemed worthy of being improved upon and this child suffering from a rare disease not? Both individuals will with that illness, neither is incurable.

    At the end, it's a dirty grey area. Too many variables but it shouldn't be denounced when simply others like it are treated and still are, being improved upon and advancing the way they are medicated for. What is stupid is the whole charade of it all, they shouldn't have to have a massive court battle over it.

    Cause with epilepsy you can have somewhat of a normal life. This kid will never have anything close to that. You are comparing apples to oranges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    Muuuneeeeyyy!

    They aren't getting money? This will only cost US tax payers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    People in this thread:

    "give up and let your child die you heartless scumbag!"

    ... retarded thought process.

    More like, Stop making your child suffer needlessly for your own selfishness.

  18. #278
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Astalnar View Post
    How noble of you. It just so happens you concluded it is in the child's own best interest to kill him. You'll excuse me if I don't cheer you on Dr. Mengele.
    When the alternative is just a few extra weeks to suffer then yes euthanasia is the most humane however continue using emotions

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    Oh the parents will definitely get money via TV appearances in America

  19. #279
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowchikabow View Post
    Dr Michio Hirano, who is a world expert on the nucleoside treatment being denied to Charlie, from the Columbia University Medical Center in New York believes he can legitimately help Charlie. What we have here is a brutal difference between European approaches to medicine, vs US approaches to medicine.

    I remember during the actual trial when Dr Hirano was testifying, he said something interesting "If Charlie had been born in the US, and we discovered the mitochondrial DNA depletion syndrome, he would have started receiving the treatments without delay" (paraphrase).

    For some of us, this is becoming both a case of "How far will a parent go", and also a case of "does letting the government determine your value as a life devalue that life?"

    There are levels of politics here that are sickening. And I am not talking about international politics. I am talking about the politics of the court and the hospital Charlie is staying at. It would be one thing if random doctors were claiming they could help, without specific knowledge. This dr is WORLD RENOWNED for his knowledge of THIS VERY DISEASE. That, to me, is what makes the case so ridiculous. The hospital and Human rights (WHAT A LAUGH) courts are being feckless, and padentic about making sure this child dies.

    That doctor thinks there is a 10% chance this might help him. As is restore some muscle function, not actually cure him.

    In which case it should be on the parent not tax payer dollars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    ok so? still up to them imo. and the data provided via the trails will likely still help future tests/studies.

    If they were paying for it, sure. When they aren't paying for it, no.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Cause with epilepsy you can have somewhat of a normal life. This kid will never have anything close to that. You are comparing apples to oranges.

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    They aren't getting money? This will only cost US tax payers.

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    More like, Stop making your child suffer needlessly for your own selfishness.
    The doctors are getting millions that the so called treatment costs.
    The medicine and treatment producers are getting a human to test on.
    And everyone involved get to act like they've been altruistic for some PR.

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