Charlie Gard potentially granted US residency by congress to fly to US for treatment!

[Themius]

That doctor thinks there is a 10% chance this might help him. As is restore some muscle function, not actually cure him.

In which case it should be on the parent not tax payer dollars.

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If they were paying for it, sure. When they aren't paying for it, no.

They raised the money. It isn't on tax payers.

[Blade Wolf]

"Civis Americanus sum!" at work. Just beautiful.



You're missing the point. We're all going to die anyway, so why even get out of bed and eat at all. This is that the British doctors, british courts, and European Court decided. The state has no right to decide over an innocent's life or death. We should never permit it, we should never tolerate it, and we should always oppose it. Nobody should have power over an individual's life, especially if the one you want to kill, is innocent of any crime.

We have a word for people who kill out of their percieved sense of "mercy", they're psychopats, serial killers. And to cheer them on is downright insane. How twisted and perverted must you be to think that killing someone is in their own best interest?



It certainly beats: "Let's kill that baby who might have a couple of more months to live, because we decided he's not worth our time, and neither will we allow anyone the chance to save him, because it would make us look bad."

Who's the real psychopath, the person who want to put someone with a terminal illness out of their misery or the person who wants to prolong their suffering until they are nothing more than pile of meat? Take a hard look in the mirror before you answer...

[Noomz]

How noble of you. It just so happens you concluded it is in the child's own best interest to kill him. You'll excuse me if I don't cheer you on Dr. Mengele.

Mengele? Do you know what that man did? He experimented on children. How very apt and ironic that you should just his name AGAINST someone that is against experimenting on this child.
Drop this pathetic appeal to emotion and laughable attempts at empathy.

[Evangeliste]

Cause with epilepsy you can have somewhat of a normal life. This kid will never have anything close to that. You are comparing apples to oranges.

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They aren't getting money? This will only cost US tax payers.

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More like, Stop making your child suffer needlessly for your own selfishness.

Yes, but it's still incurable, and you know it helps with the condition because it was actually given a chance and researched for, used on people for experimental drug trials and so on but Epilepsy medication isn't actually perfect, its why they are looking and researching on older discontinued drugs used for diabetics and found they can work too but people still have to face trials and dosage changes on several drugs even with drugs to combat thought triggers on Epilepsy to combat. Some are lucky and have it mild, others don't and others have died due to it being imperfect.
Even while on drugs that help with them, even good dosages, they can still have various seizures or even a tonic-clonic/grand mal seizure and kill themselves.

You do realise that the child's suffering has not wholly been prolonged by the parents? An additional 6 months has been added on since the first consideration of the experimental treatment in the USA, 3 of those months have actually been within the realms of a legal battle. That excludes the build-up needed to actually enter the legal courts.
So the child was 5 months old when it was first considered, it's now 11 months.
So ask yourself, whose actually wasted more time, money, professional skill and actually prolonging the suffering of the child here?
Even GOSH have now applied for a new High Court hearing that will prolong the charade. That too might take more months and prolong the child's suffering just to stop the parents getting treatment. That isn't on the parents wishlist is it?
What's better yet is even GOSH did apply for ethical permission to attempt nucleoside therapy on the child. Now it's been backtracked and the child is still worsening and will continue to because they are making the court proceedings last longer and delaying possible treatment and outcome.

What's selfish here isn't just parents wanting their child to live which actually could have received the treatment by now and seen what happened, even earlier then intended at 11 months if not later now, but in fact it's selfish that GOSH wanted to help, then pulled the rug out and now are dragging its heels and applying to make it's position in the legal proceeding longer knowing that the child is not exactly going to keep at a consistent level.

[Noomz]

if the parents OK it, yep or non-responsive adults that have legal guardians empowered to make medical decisions. Its not the states business in cases where the Doc's have ruled a person terminally ill and just laying on their death bed anyway. Might as well make their death more meaningful.

I'm not a parent but i do think i'd get some condolence knowing my kids death helped (even if it just more data) the next kid have a better chance vs just being dead.

So it's not the governments choice to protect a child from further harm, but the parents can choose to put their child as an experimental sacrifice? That's fucked up dude.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Awesome, I hope they are able to save his life.

[Dezerte]

This almost seems political.

[Elegiac]

So...we won't extend citizeship to people who have been living here their entire lives and were brought here as children but we will to some British kid because their parents whinged enough on the television about how they don't have a right to medically abuse their child in their home country.

*thumbs up*

[Blade Wolf]

So...we won't extend citizeship to people who have been living here their entire lives and were brought here as children but we will to some British kid because their parents whinged enough on the television about how they don't have a right to medically abuse their child in their home country.

*thumbs up*

When you put it like that, it sounds really fucking awful.

[Elegiac]

When you put it like that, it sounds really fucking awful.

Largely because it is, in fact, awful. These parents are acting against their child's best interests and their delusion is being fed into by a sensationalist media narrative. It's Terry Schiavo all over again, and just as reprehensible.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Parents do not have the right to make this decision for the child.

Uh, yes they do. Logically, legally, and ethically.

[Santti]

Awesome, I hope they are able to save his life.

They won't.

He has been brain dead since December, and have only deteriorated from there. Even if this experimental treatment works (which has been used few times in the past with little evidence of efficacy), there'd be absolutely zero change the boy will recover.

[Elegiac]

Uh, yes they do. Logically, legally, and ethically.

No, they do not. That is the entire reason European courts have ruled as they have; children have rights independent of their parents, and if continued medical treatment is not in the child's best interests then the parents can eat shit.

The only reason the parents are desperately appealing to the US, is because America's backwards policies put undue decisionmaking power into parental hands.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

US: Torturers of dying babies, because well... why exactly?

Still waiting for one of you people to explain how the kid is suffering, let alone being "tortured." Keeping in mind that he's effectively brain dead and completely and utterly incapable of suffering or being tortured.

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No, they do not.

Yes, they do. Those decisions can (clearly) be overridden (you know, just like any decision you make about your fucking self even), but they do have the fucking right to make decisions for their children. Only a complete and utter imbecile would claim otherwise.

Jesus Christ.

[Elegiac]

Still waiting for one of you people to explain how the kid is suffering, let alone being "tortured." Keeping in mind that he's effectively brain dead and completely and utterly incapable of suffering or being tortured.

Keeping someone alive in such a state for the sake of performing feelgood medical treatments to satisfy the parents is massively unethical.

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Yes, they do. Those decisions can (clearly) be overridden, but they do have the fucking right to make decisions for their children. Only a complete and utter imbecile would claim otherwise.

They made their decision, and it was deemed not to be in the child's best interests. So again, they can eat shit.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Uh, yes they do. Logically, legally, and ethically.

Logically, they should realize their son will never be cured, will never breathe without a ventilator, will never see, nor hear, nor lift his arms or legs. I do understand that this is their son and "logic" isn't a lot of comfort to them...therefore I do feel an incredible amount of sympathy for them. This does not change the fact that they are in the wrong

Legally, the courts have ruled against the parents at every turn.

Ethically, if the boy is able to experience anything at all....it is nothing but fear and suffering. The ethical thing to do is simply to allow nature to take it course. Seems heartless but in actuality it is the most humane thing to do. There is no cure for his condition, there is no reversing the damage already done.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Keeping someone alive in such a state for the sake of performing feelgood medical treatments to satisfy the parents is massively unethical.

Except, again, that's not what's actually happening. The child is effectively being donated to medical science to help find a cure, or at least a treatment, for the illness for other people who suffer it. Yes, the effective donation is ALSO being done under the hopeless cause of actually curing their son, but there is a point to it. A much greater, much more important point to it. No matter how utterly incapable morons are of understanding that simple fact.

Especially since once again the child is neither suffering nor being tortured. The kid is dead for all intents and purposes. But his still living body can still serve a great purpose. It's only closed-minded shit-for-brains who refuse to acknowledge that.

And worse, without even trying, there's no telling what the outcome would be. Yes, it's almost assuredly not going to work, but what the fucking hell is the harm of trying anyway? Is the kid going to end up MORE dead somehow? Is that what people like you think, for some idiotically stupid reason?

They made their decision, and it was deemed not to be in the child's best interests. So again, they can eat shit.

Yes, by the aforementioned closed-minded shit-for-brains. And yet -- despite your asininely ignorant statements otherwise -- it was still the parent's decision to make. Yes, that decision was overridden, but it was still THEIR decision to make. If it wasn't, their wishes wouldn't have even been considered to begin with. They wouldn't even be a mother-fucking part of the mother-fucking process of determining what to do.

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

[Elegiac]

Except, again, that's not what's actually happening. The child is effectively being donated to medical science to help find a cure, or at least a treatment, for the illness for other people who suffer it. Yes, the effective donation is ALSO being done under the hopeless cause of actually curing their son, but there is a point to it. A much greater, much more important point to it. No matter how utterly incapable morons are of understanding that simple fact.

I like how this went from "the parents have a sacred right to make medical decisions" to "it's okay because the child is being donated to medical science for the greater good".

Since we're talking ethics: human experimentation without said human's consent is extremely unethical. The parents do -not- have a right to subject their child to experimentation regardless of the potential outcomes.

Especially since once again the child is neither suffering nor being tortured. The kid is dead for all intents and purposes. But his still living body can still serve a great purpose. It's only closed-minded shit-for-brains who refuse to acknowledge that.

Did the child consent to being experimented on? No? Then tough shit.

Yes, by the aforementioned closed-minded shit-for-brains. And yet -- despite your asininely ignorant statements otherwise -- it was still the parent's decision to make. Yes, that decision was overridden, but it was still THEIR decision to make. If it wasn't, their wishes wouldn't have even been considered to begin with. They wouldn't even be a mother-fucking part of the mother-fucking process of determining what to do.

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

Saying it was 'their decision to make' means that their word on the matter should be final; no, it shouldn't, nor is it in any country with a halfway decent legal system.

[Noradin]

How noble of you. It just so happens you concluded it is in the child's own best interest to kill him. You'll excuse me if I don't cheer you on Dr. Mengele.

You have it backwards.

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The doctors are getting millions that the so called treatment costs.
The medicine and treatment producers are getting a human to test on.
And everyone involved get to act like they've been altruistic for some PR.

You forgot the politicans who get to shame others into voting for the border wall.

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Uh, yes they do. Logically, legally, and ethically.

No, they do not, neither logically (they are emotionally compromised), nor legally (the courts took the decision from them), nor ethically (torture of a baby to make themselves feel better is reprehensible).

[Elegiac]

No, they do not, neither logically (they are emotionally compromised), nor legally (the courts took the decision from them), nor ethically (torture of a baby to make themselves feel better is reprehensible).

No, they aren't doing it to make themselves feel better, you see. They're subjecting their kid to medical experimentation for the greater good, which makes it totally okay and doesn't demonstrate borderline stupid ignorance of modern medical and scientific ethics.