Donald Trump Jr. just posted the e-mails

[Milchshake]

Hmmm Trump Jr and Manafort to testify next week. In light of Glenn Greymane's exile.....

[Hobb]

Quick search gives this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_U...ce_controversy

This seems to be good overview of overall problems at the time:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...demsummary.htm (also good reminder of what was the point of limitations that were removed with Citizens United case)

Actually most of those folks we're contributing to both the DNC and RNC. An investigation was launched and no ill intent was found so the money in question was returned and no charges we're made.

That's a bit different than posting an email that your meeting with a foreign official to collect dirt to use against your opponent. That in itself shows intent.

[Shalcker]

Actually most of those folks we're contributing to both the DNC and RNC. An investigation was launched and no ill intent was found so the money in question was returned and no charges we're made.

Are we reading same article? People were actually convicted there... (to fines, probation, and community service mostly)

There was claimed specific preference of China to Clinton, not "both sides". And even highly classified information showing links to Chinese intelligence agencies from CIA and FBI in one case.

That's a bit different than posting an email that your meeting with a foreign official to collect dirt to use against your opponent. That in itself shows intent.

And writing two envelopes with money supposedly from different sources in same hand also shows intent. Intent to go around law limiting personal contributions.

...the problem is, the law you're trying to get Trump Jr under is specifically about campaign finances. And to say that "giving dirt on Clinton" is "financing Trump campaign" ... it's real stretch. It is most likely not going to work. But even if it does work, he'll not go to jail anyway. He'll most likely get off with a fine.

[Hobb]

Are we reading same article? People were actually convicted there... (to fines, probation, and community service mostly)

There was claimed specific preference of China to Clinton, not "both sides".

And writing two envelopes with money supposedly from different sources in same hand also shows intent. Intent to go around law limiting personal contributions.

...the problem is, the law you're trying to get Trump Jr under is specifically about campaign finances. And to say that "giving dirt on Clinton" is "financing Trump campaign" ... it's real stretch. It is most likely not going to work. But even if it does work, he'll not go to jail anyway. He'll most likely get off with a fine.

Both parties, but mostly on the republican side....

The Committee examined a host of 1996 election-related activities alleged to have been improper or illegal. We heard from fundraisers, donors, party officials, lobbyists, candidates and government officials. Roger Tamraz, a contributor to both parties, admitted making 1996 campaign contributions for one reason, to obtain access to events held in the White House.

Thirteen deposition subpoenas issued to, but then ignored by, individuals affiliated with the Republican Party, were not enforced by the Committee.These subpoenas were directed to top officers of the Republican National Committee, the Dole for President campaign, Triad Management, and Americans for Tax Reform.

Indictments and convictions have emerged involving contributors to both parties, including Charlie Trie and the Lum family on the Democratic side, and Simon Fireman, vice chair of finance of Senator Dole's presidential campaign, and corporate contributors to the campaigns of Representative Jay Kim of California on the Republican side. The most elaborate scheme investigated by the Committee involved a $2 million loan that was backed by a Hong Kong businessman, routed through a U.S. subsidiary, and resulted in a large transfer of foreign funds to the Republican Party

Edit: Also worth noting that out of the 28 days the republican congress spent investigating this, they spent 25 of it investigating the democrats and only 3 days investigating their own party.

[Shalcker]

Both parties, but mostly on the republican side....

"Mostly" by which parameter exactly?

But it doesn't really matter. Here, campaign finance laws were PROVEN to be broken, and PROVEN to involve foreign money... and pretty much everyone got off with "slap-on-the-wrist".

Edit: Also worth noting that out of the 28 days the republican congress spent investigating this, they spent 25 of it investigating the democrats and only 3 days investigating their own party.

Second article goes about that in detail!

If it shows anything is that not much actually changed in those 20 years judging by what we see now.

As such i think it would be safe to assume no jail time will be involved this time too even in "worst case scenario" - at least as far as this particular episode is concerned.

[Kujako]

Hmmm Trump Jr and Manafort to testify next week. In light of Glenn Greymane's exile.....

It's not like they'll actually say anything... expect new tweets from Trump about how innocent people always plead the 5th.

[Milchshake]

It's not like they'll actually say anything... expect new tweets from Trump about how innocent people always plead the 5th.

Watching Kamala Harris verbally pummel Jr will be worth the price of admission alone. McCain won't be their to bail him out like he did for Sessions.

I got to find a betting line; "Odds that Jr actually says something or incriminates himself".

[Mormolyce]

It's not like they'll actually say anything... expect new tweets from Trump about how innocent people always plead the 5th.

Stock up on your Trump quotes.

President Donald Trump slammed Hillary Clinton staffers who requested immunity or invoked their Fifth Amendment rights last year in response to requests to testify about the former secretary of state’s private email server.

“If you are not guilty of a crime, what do you need immunity for?” Trump said at a Florida campaign rally in September.

“The mob takes the Fifth Amendment,” Trump said at a subsequent campaign event in Iowa. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...17-5?r=US&IR=T

[Haven]

*sigh* Are we on this dishonest talking point again?

How many of those Americans are a part of a political campaign?

Please stop trying to confuse and obfuscate what the issue is.

*tinfoil hat mode on* Does one have to be publicly politically active to be a spy?

[Shalcker]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/19/trump-putin-discussed-russia-adoption-g20-240741

In before Democrats claim "adoption" is codeword for "treason" :P
...or maybe it is Melania who is Putin's plant? :P

And now Melania was sitting on the other side of the table, way down on the other end, very far away. She was sitting next to Putin and somebody else, I don’t know. She was sitting next to Putin.

HABERMAN: She had been the whole time?

TRUMP: Yes. She was sitting next to Putin.

BAKER: Does she speak Russian at all?

TRUMP: No. She speaks other languages.

TRUMP: She was sitting next to Putin and somebody else, and that’s the way it is. So the meal was going, and toward dessert I went down just to say hello to Melania, and while I was there I said hello to Putin. Really, pleasantries more than anything else. It was not a long conversation, but it was, you know, could be 15 minutes. Just talked about — things. Actually, it was very interesting, we talked about adoption.

HABERMAN: You did?

TRUMP: We talked about Russian adoption. Yeah. I always found that interesting. Because, you know, he ended that years ago. And I actually talked about Russian adoption with him, which is interesting because it was a part of the conversation that Don [Jr., Mr. Trump’s son] had in that meeting. As I’ve said — most other people, you know, when they call up and say, “By the way, we have information on your opponent,” I think most politicians — I was just with a lot of people, they said [inaudible], “Who wouldn’t have taken a meeting like that?” They just said——

[Wyrt]

Trump is seriously using the same bullshit excuse his son used? That's hilarious.

[Shalcker]

Wait, i understand... entire adoption thing is Russian psy-op.

Later they'll remove adoption ban and claim that it is great concessions that they are making after everyone will have an idea that it is hugely important to Russians... while keeping "foreign agent control" parts of that very same law like inability of those with foreign citizenship to hold official posts intact.

[Deleted]

Wait, i understand... entire adoption thing is Russian psy-op.

Isn't the Russian ban on US adoptions of its orphans a Russian bargaining chip to try to get America to repeal the Magnitsky Act? I.e. Russia is using the welfare of its children as leverage to try to stop financial penalties on it's gangster politicians? Russia is saying to America, let our kleptocracy continue without interference or the orphans get it. It seems Boko Haram kind of fucked up to me.

The Trumps are too stupid to see that, or maybe they think talking about "adoptions" will make it sound innocent. Fortunately, this is one thing the US Senate has wised up on, so the Magnitsky Act is staying.

[Orbitus]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/19/trump-putin-discussed-russia-adoption-g20-240741

In before Democrats claim "adoption" is codeword for "treason" :P
...or maybe it is Melania who is Putin's plant? :P

And now Melania was sitting on the other side of the table, way down on the other end, very far away. She was sitting next to Putin and somebody else, I don’t know. She was sitting next to Putin.

HABERMAN: She had been the whole time?

TRUMP: Yes. She was sitting next to Putin.

BAKER: Does she speak Russian at all?

TRUMP: No. She speaks other languages.

TRUMP: She was sitting next to Putin and somebody else, and that’s the way it is. So the meal was going, and toward dessert I went down just to say hello to Melania, and while I was there I said hello to Putin. Really, pleasantries more than anything else. It was not a long conversation, but it was, you know, could be 15 minutes. Just talked about — things. Actually, it was very interesting, we talked about adoption.

HABERMAN: You did?

TRUMP: We talked about Russian adoption. Yeah. I always found that interesting. Because, you know, he ended that years ago. And I actually talked about Russian adoption with him, which is interesting because it was a part of the conversation that Don [Jr., Mr. Trump’s son] had in that meeting. As I’ve said — most other people, you know, when they call up and say, “By the way, we have information on your opponent,” I think most politicians — I was just with a lot of people, they said [inaudible], “Who wouldn’t have taken a meeting like that?” They just said——

Sorry but we already know what the meeting was really about. You don't have to be a liar for Putin's Cockholser.

[Shalcker]

Isn't the Russian ban on US adoptions of its orphans a Russian bargaining chip to try to get America to repeal the Magnitsky Act? I.e. Russia is using the welfare of its children as leverage to try to stop financial penalties on it's gangster politicians? Russia is saying to America, let our kleptocracy continue without interference or the orphans get it. It seems Boko Haram kind of fucked up to me.

There was scandal at the time that one American adoptive parent left his adopted Russian kid in the car and kid died, and Americans refused to prosecute him, and then refused to cooperate in getting information on welfare of other adopted kids as Russian government machine was gearing up to "do something".

So that was the angle that got "adoption ban" tucked in to law that was really about controlling foreign influence first and foremost in response to Magnitsky act - "Americans killing our children"; it also created wave of domestic adoptions that largely resolved problems with those kids.

[Crispin]

So Trump is more interested in adopting Russian babies, than issues like hacking the election, Syria and Ukraine, even if that was true, it would make him a complete idiot for not realising that there are more pressing issues to discuss with Putin.

[LaserSharkDFB]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/19/trump-putin-discussed-russia-adoption-g20-240741

In before Democrats claim "adoption" is codeword for "treason" :P
...or maybe it is Melania who is Putin's plant? :P

And now Melania was sitting on the other side of the table, way down on the other end, very far away. She was sitting next to Putin and somebody else, I don’t know. She was sitting next to Putin.

HABERMAN: She had been the whole time?

TRUMP: Yes. She was sitting next to Putin.

BAKER: Does she speak Russian at all?

TRUMP: No. She speaks other languages.

TRUMP: She was sitting next to Putin and somebody else, and that’s the way it is. So the meal was going, and toward dessert I went down just to say hello to Melania, and while I was there I said hello to Putin. Really, pleasantries more than anything else. It was not a long conversation, but it was, you know, could be 15 minutes. Just talked about — things. Actually, it was very interesting, we talked about adoption.

HABERMAN: You did?

TRUMP: We talked about Russian adoption. Yeah. I always found that interesting. Because, you know, he ended that years ago. And I actually talked about Russian adoption with him, which is interesting because it was a part of the conversation that Don [Jr., Mr. Trump’s son] had in that meeting. As I’ve said — most other people, you know, when they call up and say, “By the way, we have information on your opponent,” I think most politicians — I was just with a lot of people, they said [inaudible], “Who wouldn’t have taken a meeting like that?” They just said——

You can say 'in before treason' all you want. Here's the thing:

1) Russia ended the adoptions of orphans to the US as revenge for the passing of the Magnitsky Act. This isn't speculation, as Putin said as much on live TV at the time:

Live on Russian television, Putin mounted a strange defense: How could the journalists stand idly by while the U.S. “humiliates” Russia? “You think that’s normal?” Putin demanded. “What’s normal about being humiliated? You like that? What are you, a sadomasochist? The country will not be humiliated.”

2) The Magnitsky Act was a sanction against Russia - or, rather, specific Russians - for the torture and death of Sergei Magintsky. His killers remained free and mostly kept their government jobs, so pleas to the West led us to passing the Act to keep those individuals from entering the US and using our banking system. It has no affect on the average Russian in the street, but it was a blow to Putin, as it reduced his ability to exert power abroad.

3) For Trump to be talking about Putin about resuming adoptions means, therefore, that the talk must also have involved lifting sanctions on Russia. More importantly, for the pre-election meeting to have been about adoptions means that the talk must have also involved lifting sanctions before Trump was even elected, which he and his campaign have sworn up and down did not happen, in a meeting that we know for a fact was also created to discuss obtaining data against Clinton. Note also that Moscow was talking about lifting the Adoption ban about two days before Trump's inauguration. Hmmmmmm.

So, thank you, Shalcker. I wasn't aware that Trump admitted to discussing lifting sanctions, but now I know, and I'm glad you admit Junior did the same thing, proving that the Trump campaign is a bunch of liars who were looking to sell out this country for political gain.

[Hobb]

As such i think it would be safe to assume no jail time will be involved this time too even in "worst case scenario" - at least as far as this particular episode is concerned.

I would agree, even if Trump Jr. is found guilty there really wouldn't be any punishment. As the case in 1996 shows republicans don't punish republicans, which shows corruption in itself.

[Breccia]

Trump is seriously using the same bullshit excuse his son used?

He no longer has a choice. Being inconsistent is proof of lying. If you're consistent, it's harder to be caught in contradictory stories.

Too late for Jr of course.

[Felya]

There was scandal at the time that one American adoptive parent left his adopted Russian kid in the car and kid died, and Americans refused to prosecute him, and then refused to cooperate in getting information on welfare of other adopted kids as Russian government machine was gearing up to "do something".

So that was the angle that got "adoption ban" tucked in to law that was really about controlling foreign influence first and foremost in response to Magnitsky act - "Americans killing our children"; it also created wave of domestic adoptions that largely resolved problems with those kids.

You mean that when you say Trump talked about adoption, he talked about Russian response to Magnitsky act? This is a strange way to admit that they were discussing sanctions...

- - - Updated - - -

So Trump is more interested in adopting Russian babies, than issues like hacking the election, Syria and Ukraine, even if that was true, it would make him a complete idiot for not realising that there are more pressing issues to discuss with Putin.

No, this is what Trump considers more important than those:

controlling foreign influence first and foremost in response to Magnitsky act