Turkey demands full EU membership a few days after they didn't want to join anymore

[Pengekaer]

It's a damn shame what has happened to Turkey.

Turkey was fundamentalist all along, only Difference is that it has now surfaced, no longer being submerged.

The only reason Ergodan has such appeal to the turks abd gained such traction is because they never were moderate.

Only thing that 'has happened' is that Turkey now has leadership and a cabinet that Better represents its population's general opinion; that against secularism. Is it truly something to be sorry about?

[Slant]

@Slant Turkey is far from joining EU. Erdogan is a fucking dictator.His followers are religious cults, zealots, all kind of terrible people. I hate how they ruined a wonderful country into the most hated one in a span of 10 years. I get that and I am completely EU side on this one. Why EU is silent on this? Warn him, show that his ways are wrong. (But Erdogan always need enemy to be able to stand in power so it might have opposite effect, as his followers really believe whatever happens in Turkey is because of Europe, he has to put the blame on others always so that he can continue ruling)

But for the love of god, sit and think. Do you honestly believe that EU was %100 honest with Turkey all these years? Don't ask me what double standards, dishonesty etc. I am asking you, Doesn't EU have anything to reflect upon? Simple Yes or No.

The worst you can call the EU is being naive. On the other hand, Germany has a large Turkish population, so thinking about doing something useful with Turkey is not completely out of the picture. But in hindsight, the EU was a bit naive. Hindsicht is 20/20, though. Had you been in their place, you'd probably have acted the same.

Turkey is a sovereign nation. The EU has no place in telling Turkey what to do. What the EU can do is put down conditions under which they will consider Turkey a candidate. That's what they did. Turkey came halfway and then, as seems to be the nature of Turkish people, lost patience and went the complete other extreme like a stubborn child. To any Turks that are reading this and are getting pissed off at me... go ahead, that's what you do. No need to be nice about it.

Europe warned Erdogan time and again. Erdogan rejects any warning. I think it's not a matter of if the EU dissolves that rather troublesome relationship. It's when. Right now, everyone's just making sure that the PR fallout won't affect the EU negatively. We're almost there, and then you'll find that the EU doesn't actually need Turkey. And the EU doesn't need to warn Turkey. Or tell them what to do. All the EU needs to do is stop the process and then move on. The EU's heart was never really in this, you're right about that. The intentions were good, however. But nobody actually believed you could turn Turkey around.

Turkey was so proud of their secular nature, their western orientation, their modernity. It's a bit sad to see them revert back to pre-21st century standards.

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Turkey will never join the EU. When even Merkel, of all people (the ultraliberal piece of sludge that she is) understands that it would have dire ramafications, there isnt much to argue about. Turkey shouldn't be in Nato either. Seriously, we cannot be certain that a Mediterrian caliphate is not their goal and we still havent booted their treacherous asses? What the Hell is wrong with our leaders..

As for the piece of sludge called Obama who wanted Turkey integrated into the EU.. it warms me to see that he and his presidency ultimately ammounted to a zero sum.

As usual, you're losing sight of the important issues. Despite what Turkish people believe, Turkey is rather insignificant as a nation. Nobody gives a fuck about them and their glorious army. The reason they're in NATO is the Bosporus. The reason that is important is still Russia and the Black Sea. And as long as the US and Europe consider Russia a threat, they'll want to keep the lid on the black sea under their control. Russia is boxed in and their only three major military seaports are either on the doorstep of the US pacific fleet and their pacific allies, through a European gauntlet of allied nations in the Baltic Sea or up north of Scandinavia, an area that is covered in thick ice half the year... not an ideal round-the-year port for military vessels. Heck, NATO just needs to target their ice breakers and they're out of commission for half the season...

[haxartus]

Turkey is not going to get into the EU.

Half of Europe doesn't like them due to human rights and democracy violations and the other half doesn't like them because of the Ottoman empire, as they will see this as a second Ottoman invasion.
It's just not going to happen in less than 50 years, maybe more.

[Elerubard]

Has the thing about Turkey publicly revealing the locations of US personnel training and advising Kurds in Syria been brought up here yet? Has a country ever been ejected from NATO?

[Acidbaron]

New political riot between Germany and Turkey, so those still in doubt that Turkey is getting near to joining the EU can pretty much bury that.

Also Turkey has just one card in this game, the immigration control what they aren't handling very well if they play that card and no longer play along they lose all political ammunition they have.

[I Push Buttons]

That city has been in Turkish control for just shy of 600 years, and even then the decline of the Byzantine state can be pinned more on the Venetians redirecting a crusade to sack a Christian state.

Perhaps it's time for Greek nationalists to realise their chances of getting that city are slim to none instead?

Guy, I am being facetious since Erdogan is a retard.

[Deleted]

Recently they captured one of our human right activists. And they really dared to request to "trade" exiled turkish generals with asylum in germany for Dennis Yücel, the turkish german reporter Erdogans helpers imprisioned..

Turkey has no place in the european union. And they also should have no place in the Nato.

[Crispin]

Recently they captured one of our human right activists. And they really dared to request to "trade" exiled turkish generals with asylum in germany for Dennis Yücel, the turkish german reporter Erdogans helpers imprisioned..

Turkey has no place in the european union. And they also should have no place in the Nato.

Turkey does have a place in NATO, it's a defense alliance, not a "morale and democratic nations" alliance.

[Deleted]

Turkey does have a place in NATO, it's a defense alliance, not a "morale and democratic nations" alliance.

I disagree. But you dont need to agree with me disagreeing.

[Mehrunes]

But the EU have been stalling since the beginning on all subjects and not just specific subjects since the very beginning.

When the talks first started in 2004/05 the first thing that came out of the governments at that time was ''privileged partnership'''and ''referendums in regards to Turkey'' this shows you how the EU never really was serious to begin with since both of these things would mean that turkey would have never joined the EU.

Privileged partnership is a transitory state for a country interested in joining, not a permanent state.

And about current events, well I find it borderline hypocritical to put the blame on the current events in Turkey when the whole thing seemed like a farce to begin with (see above). You really can't blame the current Turkish government from moving away from EU and not sucking up to the EU when you don't really give anything in return

Turkey not doing shit to meet Copenhagen non-economic Copenhagen criteria in decades is obviously not their fault.

Also I've been to Eastern-Europe and Turkey, both Bulgaria and Poland for examples where falling apart before joining the EU and even now. They kind of cleaned up a bit since joining the EU and getting allot of money and other resources but you still see the major difference between areas that got EU funding and areas without EU funding. So the idea that Bulgaria ready when they didn't have any decent roads is a bit of a joke isn't it.

The criteria are macroeconomic ones, not about the state of countryside roads.

Which they had past originally and was no longer a obstruction to further talks, you may argue that Turkey today doesn't fulfill the Copenhagen criteria anymore but again that's a recent development while talks themselves have been slow since the very beginning.

Again it's being hypocritical at best when you try to put the blame on Turkey's because of the current course of the ruling party while ignoring the first 10 years.

EU was never serious period and that has nothing to do with the current government (see previous comment) even though till some point they used to be a erdogan cheerleaders.

The first 10 years led to provisional closing of one chapter out of 35 of accession talks. Turkey was fer sure willing to meet the criteria of accession. And it has nothing to do with the current government as per your previous comment? Huh, how weird. Your previous comment was about the state of things from 2009. And yet, Erdogan was already a prime minister then. And he has been since 2003.

Again look at the early comments in 2004 and 2005 about ''referendums and special partnership'' that byitself tells me how the EU as a whole was never really serious to begin with.

Screw the so called standards that's a formality when both sides are approaching the deal as honest parties. Turkey started out as honest the EU didn't.

Yeah, Turkey was real honest with their allergic reaction to the topics of Armenian genocide or Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus. And the standards are ultimately a formality in any context, so I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make. They are a formality Turkey never really attempted to fulfill though. But of course, that's evil EU's fault. I guess it was Juncker that went all Inception on poor innocent Erodgan and implanted the idea of going all Sultan on Turkey in his otherwise honest and open to European values mind too.

Oh come on a few parties?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jul/19/turkey.eu

Article from 2005

Nicolas Sarkozy, France's interior minister, and Angela Merkel, the leader of Germany's centre-right CDU party, want Turkey's application to be downgraded to associate membership.

Oh noes, a country that has been associate member since 63 and has done jack shit to meet non-economic criteria since then was deemed to be pointless to negotiate with. EU is so evul.

France and Austria are due to hold referendums on Turkish membership once the accession talks end in about 10 years, all but guaranteeing that Turkey will be blocked if the current climate prevails.

And? The accession has to be accepted by all current members. They are free to hold referendums for it. Greece will veto it till kingdom come if the Northern Cyprus issue is not resolved with or without referendums. Also, I wonder what could the political climate in regards to Turkey be in 2005, 2 years after Erdogan became prime minister... Alas, Turkey was obviously blameless, so it was also evul EU's fault.

From a single article and it shows you the comments from those important Europeaan leaders at that time with the most influence. How you enter a negotiation is determines the success of the negotiating. Looking at these comments of EU leaders the author of this article already predicted that Turkey wouldn't join the EU anyway.

And Turkey entered the negotiations with a prime minister with wet dreams about reinvigorating the Sultanate.

Turkey can admit to the Armenian genocide and disavow Islamic fundamentalism first.

Oh and Erdogan can stop being a snowflake and start embracing actual freedom of speech, press and democracy as well.

With EU preparing to sanction Poland (and maybe Hungary) over these despite them being member states, Erdogan should really think this through. Because even if he plays legislative lip service to join, only to revert to Ottoman Empire v2 after joining, he'd have a surprise waiting for him.

[Jastall]

Turkey is a rogue country led by a madman who sees himself Sultan in all but name.

They are not entering the EU. Hell their role in NATO is very questionable at this stage.

The Turks are certainly not entering the EU, that's for sure.

But NATO has worked and will continue to work with worse. They really don't care if the guy is a fundamentalist autocrat so long as he plays ball and lets them use the bases located on his turf.

[Deleted]

The only country pushing for the Turks to be in the EU was the UK and now they are fucking off. Good luck Sultan.

[Breccia]

"But we reeeeeeeeeeeally want to attack Syria and the Cock Holster won't let us!"
"No."
"Aw, c'mon! I taste great on rye bread with swiss!"

[Xarkan]

Turkey will never join the EU. When even Merkel, of all people (the ultraliberal piece of sludge that she is) understands that it would have dire ramafications, there isnt much to argue about. Turkey shouldn't be in Nato either. Seriously, we cannot be certain that a Mediterrian caliphate is not their goal and we still havent booted their treacherous asses? What the Hell is wrong with our leaders..

As for the piece of sludge called Obama who wanted Turkey integrated into the EU.. it warms me to see that he and his presidency ultimately ammounted to a zero sum.

You seem to have misspelled christian conservative

[Noradin]

The Turks are certainly not entering the EU, that's for sure.

But NATO has worked and will continue to work with worse. They really don't care if the guy is a fundamentalist autocrat so long as he plays ball and lets them use the bases located on his turf.

Unfortunately he doesn't really do that anymore, he has started to evict certain nations from those bases.
(Yes, not allowing members of the German parliament visit their troops means that these groups must leave, there is no way around it in the German constitution and he knows it. Banning the members of parliament is equivalent with banning the troops.)

[ati87]

Privileged partnership is a transitory state for a country interested in joining, not a permanent state.




Turkey not doing shit to meet Copenhagen non-economic Copenhagen criteria in decades is obviously not their fault.




The criteria are macroeconomic ones, not about the state of countryside roads.




The first 10 years led to provisional closing of one chapter out of 35 of accession talks. Turkey was fer sure willing to meet the criteria of accession. And it has nothing to do with the current government as per your previous comment? Huh, how weird. Your previous comment was about the state of things from 2009. And yet, Erdogan was already a prime minister then. And he has been since 2003.




Yeah, Turkey was real honest with their allergic reaction to the topics of Armenian genocide or Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus. And the standards are ultimately a formality in any context, so I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make. They are a formality Turkey never really attempted to fulfill though. But of course, that's evil EU's fault. I guess it was Juncker that went all Inception on poor innocent Erodgan and implanted the idea of going all Sultan on Turkey in his otherwise honest and open to European values mind too.




Oh noes, a country that has been associate member since 63 and has done jack shit to meet non-economic criteria since then was deemed to be pointless to negotiate with. EU is so evul.




And? The accession has to be accepted by all current members. They are free to hold referendums for it. Greece will veto it till kingdom come if the Northern Cyprus issue is not resolved with or without referendums. Also, I wonder what could the political climate in regards to Turkey be in 2005, 2 years after Erdogan became prime minister... Alas, Turkey was obviously blameless, so it was also evul EU's fault.




And Turkey entered the negotiations with a prime minister with wet dreams about reinvigorating the Sultanate.




With EU preparing to sanction Poland (and maybe Hungary) over these despite them being member states, Erdogan should really think this through. Because even if he plays legislative lip service to join, only to revert to Ottoman Empire v2 after joining, he'd have a surprise waiting for him.

Honestly I could react to all of this but then you are confusing recent events with past events and just adding insults so I won't dignify that.

Also Armenian genocide? What does that have to do with anything? Armenia isn't part of the EU and neither is that subject or part of the chapter. Sure you can mix those to things together but do we really want to go down the path of atrocities committed in WW2? We could probably find allot of bad shit committed by every side of the conflict including by Armenians.

[ati87]

That's not the point with the Armenians. The problem there is, that a lot of Turkish officials outright deny that it ever happened, and strictly won't own up to it. THAT'S what is required. All the details can be discussed later.

It's also not useful to begin weighing atrocities against each other, because naturally, each side will see itself as the victim whose hands were forced to do the things they did. No use to even start it, and the EU officials know that as well.
Take Germany: They admitted everything, owned up, issued honest apologies and paid hefty reparations to everyone, and promised to never let anything close to WW2 happen again as far as they can help it. (Yes they went a bit too far into submission sometimes, but that's still A LOT better than just saying: "Nah, didn't happen, not my fault.") A simple: "Yes, our forebearers slaughtered a good bit of yours, and we're truly sorry. We'll do everything on our side to avoid having this ever again, as long as you also play ball." would be an amazing start.

Turkey doesn;t deny that people died they deny it was a genocide which is a huge difference from a atrocities. But that;s going offtopic

Look at how Brexit is going, best thing people can say about the UK side is that they entered it ''unprepared'' which shows when they are caving in the EU demands before the talks even began. To me this says enough ''brexit will turn into a bigger joke by the day'' and how you enter the talks.

[Xarkan]

http://aa.com.tr/en/europe/turkey-wa...r-celik/864385

But Erdogan just said it's a total waste of time and they don't want to join anymore anyway.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40577216


Do they even know what they want? LOL

Regardless of what they want their demands cannot at present be met

Probably wouldnt be realistic even if they complied (one country (or in some cases part of a country) objecting means they cannot join) but at present that do not comply with the requirements to join.

We forgot to make compliance a requirement to stay though so we may have member states soon (tm) that would not meet the requierements to join. More than anything that will make us look like hypocrites

So the only option really is to firm the border and send anyone that passes from Turkey back if they do not possess a Visa [or appropriate documentation of citizenship in nations freely allowed to travel] (to counter another Turkish threat) and tell Erdogan to get lost

[Mehrunes]

Honestly I could react to all of this but then you are confusing recent events with past events and just adding insults so I won't dignify that.

Says the person who doesn't realize Erdogan has been in power since 2003 and that Erdogan being Erdogan now is somehow caused by what EU officials said in 2009, 6 years after he first gained power. I can't see you from that high-ground of yours Then there's the whole victim complex about privileged partnership or accession referendums, as if that proved some kind of oppression of poor innocent Turkey (that never did a thing to meet non-economic Copenhaged criteria, be it in recent years, or 20 years ago). That high-ground of yours is endlessly growing taller. Also, given how I haven't insulted you in what you quoted, you should work on your deflection skills, since they are weak-ass.

Also Armenian genocide? What does that have to do with anything? Armenia isn't part of the EU and neither is that subject or part of the chapter. Sure you can mix those to things together but do we really want to go down the path of atrocities committed in WW2? We could probably find allot of bad shit committed by every side of the conflict including by Armenians.

Yeah, because Turkey refusing to own up to their shit totally doesn't say a lot about their attitude towards human rights. Which was officially brought up by multiple countries during the process and Turkey always reacted to it like a vampire to garlic. And I made myself clear that it's their reaction to the subject that was the issue, not them doing bad things in the past. So go on, dig up atrocities of the EU member states all you want. Won't change a thing given how they owned up to it and admitted wrongdoing, unlike Turkey.

[lig1993]

As a supporter of Erdogan, I would like to say a couple of things if you give me permission. Because of the reason that I'm not a native speaker of English, I may have grammar mistakes.

So the reason why people love Erdogan and support him, except the ones who wish to make more money even if they don't like Erdogan, is that Erdogan helped those who are religious for years by giving them some kind of freedom. I don't know you know about it, but in the past, people who don't like Erdogan right now was ruling the country, was converting mosques into stables, preventing religious people learn their religion by forbidding reading Qur'an (holy book of Islam) for years. That cause religious people have full of ill will for that leaders, parties etc. Wearing turban was forbidden for years. Women who wish to wear turban cannot work in the government buildings. Even now some employer specifically doesn't want turban in their companies. Turban is a must for ladies according to Islam. Before being selected for Turkey's leader back in 2002, Erdogan was known already as a religious person. So please put yourself into those people who suffered for years because of choosing to believe Islam. How would you act if they prevent you doing what you want? I hope I could tell you what I meant.

On the other hand, because of the Turkey's geo position, Turkey had always enemies around the border. Don't believe that European countries do things better without Turkey in middle-east. Putin has already come to the Mediterranean, even he needs Turkey. The US was already there since Iraq's fall. The Chinese government started to move towards middle-east. Most importantly, people in middle-east love Erdogan as their own leader even if their official leaders don't like Erdogan. Those lovers have tears in their eyes when saw someone from Turkey. Generally, Turkey is a key for those who are interested in with middle-east. I don't think so that will end in the near future.

I don't try to convince you to love, or support Erdogan, just saying my thought about him. Turkey has trouble with that Gulen movement. The leader of that country in the US, his followers run away to Germany. That coup attempt was made to take down Erdogan who is religious as well as with his lovers. What would you expect from Erdogan in that case?

I apologize from all of you if I made you upset. I tried to tell you the view of his lovers.

Have a nice day in advance