The League of Legends thread

[Noxina]

This depends though, not every toplaner has much use for Runic Armor really, and perseverance? Sorry but barely anyone uses the mastery, it sits between 15% summoner CD and fearless, which are both very strong masteries.

Jax for example, has no use for Runic Armor and would be a lot better of with Fearless or Insight than Perseverance. He also starts Corruption Potion in most of his matchups so you don't het the extra advantage of Dorans Shield either.

For a Darius it's quite strong since he heals A LOT out of Q, but Insight is still miles better then Perseverance really.

Just blindly picking those 3 masteries combined with a Dorans Shield won't make you win more at all.

It might in Bronze, when people will let you step back and regain to full healt. I guess

[Deleted]

Just blindly picking those 3 masteries combined with a Dorans Shield won't make you win more at all.

It might in Bronze, when people will let you step back and regain to full healt. I guess

You need to try it to witness it
I guess i can show you on a video.

It completely heals harasses from level 1 to 6. I'm talking "full hp" from harasses like Diana Q's, Malphite Q, Akali Q. They can spam it on cooldown all they want but you will always be full hp.

It's just a nice thing to have on some champions, i did not discover the wheel but is really nice to have this kind of regen early on some champions.
(My friend in the video was making fun of me, don't mind him)

[Zayv]

I always start Doran's on Zed now, even if it's a favorable matchup. The sustain is just nuts.

[flyingspacesheep]

I've tried the Doran's shield start (without what shadowpunkz recommended) on midlane/toplane but I guess it just isn't my style of play. On Zed, I'd usually use the 2% vamp from masteries for a little more sustain (in fact, I lean onto that for most of my AD champs).

The problem on Doran's shield for me, is the lack of AD which I prefer to have to bully my laner or be able to secure kills especially when I'm running ignite. Using Doran's shield as a starting item also slows down my build, but that's me.

As for what shadowpunkz recommended, I did try it before (I did it with grasp using tanky Yasuo/whatever which I don't use anymore cos 10% CD on tp is pretty worth). The sustain is REALLY REALLY good, not that my opponents don't harass me, but it's more like I can just stay out of range, not last hit and just soak exp when I'm bullied out and still recover enough HP to hopefully outplay my opponents when their jgler comes to finish me off lol.

[Deleted]

You need to try it to witness it
I guess i can show you on a video.

It completely heals harasses from level 1 to 6. I'm talking "full hp" from harasses like Diana Q's, Malphite Q, Akali Q. They can spam it on cooldown all they want but you will always be full hp.

It's just a nice thing to have on some champions, i did not discover the wheel but is really nice to have this kind of regen early on some champions.
(My friend in the video was making fun of me, don't mind him)

And it won't help in ganks. Your TP will be up quite a bit slower, you last hit worse and your potential to snowball got lower. I mean, no one gives a shit about a level 1 Malphite spamming Q on you.

But hey, feel free to play whatever makes you climb in bronze. But AP Darius with gold/5 runes could make you climb, that doesn't make it any better though.

[Deleted]

Jesus @Led ++ i'm not losing anything special with this setup. All im losing is a teleport with less cooldown.
I'm not using any crazy runes, i'm not using AP Darius with gold per 5 runes, i'm not doing anything incredibly crazy.

Is just a dorans shield.
And it gives additional 5 damage to minions, so i actually last hit better than a player who starts with Elexir or whatever they start nowadays.

I hate that philosophy of "oh you are not following the herd? Noob! Bronze 5 player. Your opinion sucks. LoL, look at him, AhAH, XD"
With that mindset you will never find anything new in your entire life.

[Zayv]

I've tried the Doran's shield start (without what shadowpunkz recommended) on midlane/toplane but I guess it just isn't my style of play. On Zed, I'd usually use the 2% vamp from masteries for a little more sustain (in fact, I lean onto that for most of my AD champs).

The problem on Doran's shield for me, is the lack of AD which I prefer to have to bully my laner or be able to secure kills especially when I'm running ignite. Using Doran's shield as a starting item also slows down my build, but that's me.

As for what shadowpunkz recommended, I did try it before (I did it with grasp using tanky Yasuo/whatever which I don't use anymore cos 10% CD on tp is pretty worth). The sustain is REALLY REALLY good, not that my opponents don't harass me, but it's more like I can just stay out of range, not last hit and just soak exp when I'm bullied out and still recover enough HP to hopefully outplay my opponents when their jgler comes to finish me off lol.

Your style of play will definitely affect it, but I've never missed Long Sword starts. If anything having DS allows me to poke more and then eventually score a kill because Zed's lvl 1 Q does crap damage compared to what other mids can do. With LS + Potions I still struggle to stay in lane vs decent ranged mids without getting pushed to under my tower. Basically all my DS starts end in an early kill on enemy mid, my minions on enemy tower, and a recall into a nice power spike

I always gotta caveat that I play normals because I don't know what you'd face in ranked. But a good Ahri, or Velkoz, or god forbid Twisted Fate and Anivia with their bum-easy Thunderlord's procs, will just poke me into a recall while also screwing my farm up.

[flyingspacesheep]

But a good Ahri, or Velkoz, or god forbid Twisted Fate and Anivia with their bum-easy Thunderlord's procs, will just poke me into a recall while also screwing my farm up.

I mained Ahri and TF once (still use them if I need to win games), but I don't find any problems against these 4 champs. Everyone's pretty weak lvl 1, so if you're afraid, you can just evade their skillshots and melee just 1 or 2 creeps and you'll miss at most just 1 to 3 creeps from Lvl 1 - 3.

Ahri will try to max range Q you, so you can just stay away from the creeps or bait it out before trading Qs with her. It's pretty much the same at lvl 2.

TF probably has W which he'll either red card the ranged minions or he won't even bother to poke you since 1 AA will get the whole bunch of minions to target him. He can poke you more at lvl 2 so you'll probably only "lose" in that lvl.

Velkoz's Q don't do much dmg and probably can't hit you if you just walk up and down or hide behind some creeps, it's not as easy as it seems. Lvl 2 is also about the same plus his AA is pretty short too.

Anivia probably has a stun which you may need to be careful about, so you could try W on lvl 2 if you want so you can use it to evade.

Out of the 4, I think I'd only find trouble with Anivia though I think that you can apply quite a lot of pressure from lvl 3 onwards and even more at lvl 4. Just need to watch out for the enemy jungler and with the 10ad from the long sword (and recovery from pots), I think you can either bully them out of lane or secure a kill easily when your jungler comes by.

10 AD at level 3 I think is quite a lot, combining it with 3 pots or at least that 150bucks pot thingy (plus spell vamp from masteries) will actually give quite abit of sustain, it's like +1 hp per AA and +1/+2 hp per skill. You'll also be ready for ganks with the pots restoring your health together rather than wait for DS to come into effect but that's me because lesser AD = lesser pressure = opponents heal back faster = more rotations to prepare for the all in = by the time you prepare the kill, it'll be like lvl 5 or something.

My aim is to be able to put on pressure, either to lure the enemy jungler over or to get a kill before I use up all 3 pots (or all 2 charges of that whatever pot but I find 3 pots more effective), then come back with a bunch of long swords (or BF) with another 1 or 2 pots and snowball myself.

Edit: Zed's Q does little dmg at lvl 1, but it'll do even less if you're on DS.

Edit 2: I just realized how big of a counter Kayn is to Zed. Zed R, Kayn hides till forever.

[Deleted]

Jesus @Led ++ i'm not losing anything special with this setup. All im losing is a teleport with less cooldown.
I'm not using any crazy runes, i'm not using AP Darius with gold per 5 runes, i'm not doing anything incredibly crazy.

Is just a dorans shield.
And it gives additional 5 damage to minions, so i actually last hit better than a player who starts with Elexir or whatever they start nowadays.

I hate that philosophy of "oh you are not following the herd? Noob! Bronze 5 player. Your opinion sucks. LoL, look at him, AhAH, XD"
With that mindset you will never find anything new in your entire life.

The herd? Hahahaha. Hell, probably over 75% of people who play this game barely have an idea what to pick or use. 'The Herd' in this game are the people thinking they find something good, while statistically it's just weak.

The concept is simple, you tell people to get 3 specific masteries and an item to be unkillable 1-6, this thread starts to turn into mobafire. And to be frank, that's exactly the mentality why you aren't climbing.

[flyingspacesheep]

I just want to say that there was a point of time where I bought HP regen runes on seal to "regen all my hp" lol, which I've stopped using but I'm still thinking about mana regen runes lolololololol.

Anyways, I once used energy regen runes on Zed with Deathfire touch (before the nerf) and found incredibly effective on diamond queue BUT.. I've recently changed everything back to normal and avoided that build (no idea if I should try it again).

[Zayv]

I mained Ahri and TF once (still use them if I need to win games), but I don't find any problems against these 4 champs. Everyone's pretty weak lvl 1, so if you're afraid, you can just evade their skillshots and melee just 1 or 2 creeps and you'll miss at most just 1 to 3 creeps from Lvl 1 - 3.

Ahri will try to max range Q you, so you can just stay away from the creeps or bait it out before trading Qs with her. It's pretty much the same at lvl 2.

TF probably has W which he'll either red card the ranged minions or he won't even bother to poke you since 1 AA will get the whole bunch of minions to target him. He can poke you more at lvl 2 so you'll probably only "lose" in that lvl.

Velkoz's Q don't do much dmg and probably can't hit you if you just walk up and down or hide behind some creeps, it's not as easy as it seems. Lvl 2 is also about the same plus his AA is pretty short too.

Anivia probably has a stun which you may need to be careful about, so you could try W on lvl 2 if you want so you can use it to evade.

Out of the 4, I think I'd only find trouble with Anivia though I think that you can apply quite a lot of pressure from lvl 3 onwards and even more at lvl 4. Just need to watch out for the enemy jungler and with the 10ad from the long sword (and recovery from pots), I think you can either bully them out of lane or secure a kill easily when your jungler comes by.

10 AD at level 3 I think is quite a lot, combining it with 3 pots or at least that 150bucks pot thingy (plus spell vamp from masteries) will actually give quite abit of sustain, it's like +1 hp per AA and +1/+2 hp per skill. You'll also be ready for ganks with the pots restoring your health together rather than wait for DS to come into effect but that's me because lesser AD = lesser pressure = opponents heal back faster = more rotations to prepare for the all in = by the time you prepare the kill, it'll be like lvl 5 or something.

My aim is to be able to put on pressure, either to lure the enemy jungler over or to get a kill before I use up all 3 pots (or all 2 charges of that whatever pot but I find 3 pots more effective), then come back with a bunch of long swords (or BF) with another 1 or 2 pots and snowball myself.

Edit: Zed's Q does little dmg at lvl 1, but it'll do even less if you're on DS.

Edit 2: I just realized how big of a counter Kayn is to Zed. Zed R, Kayn hides till forever.

thx for the pointers. And yeah it's any ranged champ with a stun that's a PITA for me on Zed during lane phase, which is why DS is better for me because more sustain = less running back = more poking & farm. They can poke far easier at lvl 3 than I can because any engage is almost a guaranteed TL Decree on me, and W is on a 20 second CD. An Ahri usually has to be really good to give me probs but Anivia and TF are a pain. I never miss the +10 longsword damage because the sustain lets me poke more.

I just find I'm able to engage and trade at early levels and pressure them like crazy. I almost dont see the point in LS starts anymore unless it's a super easy matchup, like Veigar.

Velkoz on the other hand isn't a major prob pre-6, but he turns into such a spammy mofo. You can imagine my frustration to lose to these champs when some guides call them easy matchups vs zed. Maybe mid to late game but not so much early game. I'll take a yasuo matchup vs TF anyday.

But against guys like Talon, DS is a must for me.

I haven't had to fight a decent Kayn yet on Zed. Most of the time I face one is when I'm on Varus and it's pretty EZ. The fact his wall walk spell and ultimate are telegraphed makes it so. With his ult I just time my E on his reapparance, BORK, kite, Q, auto, E. Part of the reason I love crit varus so much with BORK, you can actually duel alot of champs.

- - - Updated - - -

I just want to say that there was a point of time where I bought HP regen runes on seal to "regen all my hp" lol, which I've stopped using but I'm still thinking about mana regen runes lolololololol.

Anyways, I once used energy regen runes on Zed with Deathfire touch (before the nerf) and found incredibly effective on diamond queue BUT.. I've recently changed everything back to normal and avoided that build (no idea if I should try it again).

Interesting. I guess energy regen would be more useful if there wasn't already mechanics for energy refund with certain champs - but I do feel energy starved sometimes and have died because of it.

[flyingspacesheep]

Velkoz on the other hand isn't a major prob pre-6, but he turns into such a spammy mofo. You can imagine my frustration to lose to these champs when some guides call them easy matchups vs zed. Maybe mid to late game but not so much early game. I'll take a yasuo matchup vs TF anyday.

But against guys like Talon, DS is a must for me.

I haven't had to fight a decent Kayn yet on Zed. Interesting. I guess energy regen would be more useful if there wasn't already mechanics for energy refund with certain champs - but I do feel energy starved sometimes and have died because of it.

On the contrary, actually I think it's a must for a Zed to snowball right from the start and also not to be afraid of trading because you can also proc TDL at lvl 3 (W E Q-2hits). The trick I think, is actually not to spam W.

You can use it once or twice for the initial poke just to get their health down to about 3/4 then just use Q to slowly poke them down to 1/2 when they last hit and saving the W for a potential all in since you also have passive + ignite and TDL should be up by then.

I love going into TF/Velkoz using Zed (that aside, I'm not too afraid of using TF against a Zed either) but the trick is timing to engage. Both TF/Velkoz has a pretty short AA range, I don't know about DS but using a LS, it'll almost always be a favourable trade (especially if your shadow's Q hit too).

TF is very very mana dependent, so he'd try to blue card and back off. If he doesn't, then you have about 4 seconds to go all in on him and come back out, after the first engage, you'll probably see him hiding behind the backline where you can poke with your Q and zone him, just don't get hit by his Q and look out for the junglers with his gold card.

As you mentioned, Velkoz isn't much of a prob pre-6, so you just need to make sure that you starve him out and get to 6 first. If you didn't manage to kill him pre-6, you'll at least get a huge lead on him, time your back so you don't lose much exp (or any exp) and you'll still own him when you come back because he has no money to get items while you may be back with like 4 long swords.

W E Q should deal close to half HP, then you just need to wait for TDL for an all-in. It may seem like he can spam post-6, but remember that you appear behind him after your R. This means that he has to turn 180 degs to hit you with his R and it takes time for him to turn. The only counter is for him to W you when you appear from R, which you could use the W R W or even just go R W W to avoid it. The problem only comes if you can't finish him off and presses R to go back out, then with the range and having your escapes on cooldown, he can just all in you.

Talon is just stupid because vision wards don't reveal them anymore. Not that I don't win talon matchups but I find it incredibly hard because he can just R when you R and you can't see him, it's hard even with a red trinket around. Though I may be able to avoid getting killed, there's just no point if I can't kill him or so that's what I think.

Kayn I believe will be even "stupider", because he can just hide inside of you when you R and you can't do s h e eeeeeeet about it except to bring him back into your tower/teammates, which he can just conveniently walk through some walls.

Lastly, for energy runes, that was precisely what I thought. Having energy regen runes with the energy refund mechanics actually provides me with almost infinite energy but at the expense of HP but I think I was just winning because Zed was probably OP then or something. Or maybe cos I could get a great deal out of DFT because of I have lotsa energy lol but I don't think that I'd recommend this build (I'll try it out if Zed doesn't get banned lol)

[jackofwind]

Jesus @Led ++ i'm not losing anything special with this setup. All im losing is a teleport with less cooldown.
I'm not using any crazy runes, i'm not using AP Darius with gold per 5 runes, i'm not doing anything incredibly crazy.

Is just a dorans shield.
And it gives additional 5 damage to minions, so i actually last hit better than a player who starts with Elexir or whatever they start nowadays.

I hate that philosophy of "oh you are not following the herd? Noob! Bronze 5 player. Your opinion sucks. LoL, look at him, AhAH, XD"
With that mindset you will never find anything new in your entire life.

15% more CD on TP is actually a massive deal as a top laner. If you can't see that then there's not much point in debating it. It's the difference between winning and losing a crucial teamfight, winning or losing a critical map objective, or being able to get the backdoor in time.

HP regen from levels 1-6 won't win you games, but less CD on TP certainly will. Part of your skillset should already be efficiently last-hitting while dodging pokes and either trading effectively or knowing not to trade at all.

[Zayv]

As you mentioned, Velkoz isn't much of a prob pre-6, so you just need to make sure that you starve him out and get to 6 first. If you didn't manage to kill him pre-6, you'll at least get a huge lead on him, time your back so you don't lose much exp (or any exp) and you'll still own him when you come back because he has no money to get items while you may be back with like 4 long swords.

W E Q should deal close to half HP, then you just need to wait for TDL for an all-in. It may seem like he can spam post-6, but remember that you appear behind him after your R. This means that he has to turn 180 degs to hit you with his R and it takes time for him to turn. The only counter is for him to W you when you appear from R, which you could use the W R W or even just go R W W to avoid it. The problem only comes if you can't finish him off and presses R to go back out, then with the range and having your escapes on cooldown, he can just all in you.

Talon is just stupid because vision wards don't reveal them anymore. Not that I don't win talon matchups but I find it incredibly hard because he can just R when you R and you can't see him, it's hard even with a red trinket around. Though I may be able to avoid getting killed, there's just no point if I can't kill him or so that's what I think.

Kayn I believe will be even "stupider", because he can just hide inside of you when you R and you can't do s h e eeeeeeet about it except to bring him back into your tower/teammates, which he can just conveniently walk through some walls.

Lastly, for energy runes, that was precisely what I thought. Having energy regen runes with the energy refund mechanics actually provides me with almost infinite energy but at the expense of HP but I think I was just winning because Zed was probably OP then or something. Or maybe cos I could get a great deal out of DFT because of I have lotsa energy lol but I don't think that I'd recommend this build (I'll try it out if Zed doesn't get banned lol)

Again thanks for the tips, I'm gradually started to be aware of all this this stuff, and it's made a difference. There's still alot of counters to Zed, but it makes you a better player for it. The amount of "you killed me but ayyyy I'm not dead" abilities and passives in the game make it even more tilting sometimes, but my skills have taken off after realizing how deep the game is.

The build I go with is LL Stylish of course - he has a core then situational items. IIRC his runes are mostly attack damage, while others use lethality. Now I'm still learning stat itemization, but as I understand it... attack damage > lethality vs tanks? Well there's tons of tanky champs these days so I prefer that route, but will also roll a burst build rather than a duelist one, since Zed can't do much in teamfights - I'd rather burst someone and get out. Only downside is I can't just derp in - I have to be mindful of people's flash & escapes :P

But usually when I go Ghostblade > Dusk > Cleaver > Tabi > LW/DD > Titanic Hydra I'm able to trade much easier without risk of being deleted (sometimes i get BORK vs people like Fiora/Talon, not sure if that's ideal).

If I'm against a crit Tryndamere, I usually just curl up in a ball and ask him to end it quickly.

[Deleted]

15% more CD on TP is actually a massive deal as a top laner. If you can't see that then there's not much point in debating it. It's the difference between winning and losing a crucial teamfight, winning or losing a critical map objective, or being able to get the backdoor in time.

HP regen from levels 1-6 won't win you games, but less CD on TP certainly will. Part of your skillset should already be efficiently last-hitting while dodging pokes and either trading effectively or knowing not to trade at all.

I understand. Those less 45 seconds on teleport are VERY important but in my opinion the 22 health regen at level 1 is much more noob friendly.
I can play bad and still win a trade.
I have been winning lanes that i was suposed to lose if not for the regen. I'm winning against Rivens and Darius as Kayn Top and i'm like "WTF, how am i doing this?"

So all i want to say is that the regen is much more noob friendly and makes you win trades consistently without even knowing what the hell you are doing.

And as "Red Kayn" i take full advantage of Runic Armor, so its not a waste of a mastery.
All i'm using is 3 little masteries and a Droans Shield, no special runes whatsoever and i get 22 Health regen at level 1 PLUS the Dorans passive that heals you after you are hit.

[jackofwind]

I understand. Those less 45 seconds on teleport are VERY important but in my opinion the 22 health regen at level 1 is much more noob friendly.
I can play bad and still win a trade.
I have been winning lanes that i was suposed to lose if not for the regen. I'm winning against Rivens and Darius as Kayn Top and i'm like "WTF, how am i doing this?"

So all i want to say is that the regen is much more noob friendly and makes you win trades consistently without even knowing what the hell you are doing.

And as "Red Kayn" i take full advantage of Runic Armor, so its not a waste of a mastery.
All i'm using is 3 little masteries and a Droans Shield, no special runes whatsoever and i get 22 Health regen at level 1 PLUS the Dorans passive that heals you after you are hit.

Definitely truthful, I guess I'm a little jaded and I just see a lot of people who get into 'noob-friendly' habits that end up being crutches for them or hold them back as a player because they can't break the habit.

But yeah, you're not wrong. Once you get to a certain experience level with games like League or WoW for that matter it's hard to put yourself in the shoes of a new player.

[Deleted]

Definitely truthful, I guess I'm a little jaded and I just see a lot of people who get into 'noob-friendly' habits that end up being crutches for them or hold them back as a player because they can't break the habit.

But yeah, you're not wrong. Once you get to a certain experience level with games like League or WoW for that matter it's hard to put yourself in the shoes of a new player.

I have a love/hate situation with League of Legends. More hate as of late.
Today i decided to make an experiment. I bought a six pack of beer and decided to play since 4 pm to 8pm...and i must say it was an horrible, horrible experience.
in 5 games, 4 had one AFK in my team or enemy team and on the last game there were AFK's in BOTH TEAMS

And what makes me mad is not losing. Is the fact that if you WIN after a loss you are left in the same place you were 2 HOURS AGO!
2 HOURS where you did NOTHING in your life because you are in the exact same place you were 2 hours ago. xDDDD

This game is so time consuming i don't think i can keep up with the "ranked experience".

But anyways i think i am improving and having fun even though today was a horrible experience ^_^

[Duilliath]

Don't play to go up the ladder. Play because the game is fun and play because you are getting better at it.

[Zayv]

And what makes me mad is not losing. Is the fact that if you WIN after a loss you are left in the same place you were 2 HOURS AGO!
2 HOURS where you did NOTHING in your life because you are in the exact same place you were 2 hours ago. xDDDD

But what about the fun and enriching experiences with your fellow cancerous summoners?

[Deleted]

Don't play to go up the ladder. Play because the game is fun and play because you are getting better at it.

Very true.
I always play for fun. I never pick the "big boys" meta champions.
I want the game to end and think "boy i had so much fun", even when i lose.

But that thing i said about if you lose > win, 2 hours passed and you are at the same place you were....really makes me think about life xDDD

But what about the fun and enriching experiences with your fellow cancerous summoners?

Ahah