Getting a bad legendary shouldn't feel like getting punched

[Hctaz]

You do know if it was blizzard catering to the casual player everyone would be getting their BiS legendaries easily.

That's not really true at all. The original design was that legendary items were rare and you'd have maybe one or two of them in your guild. They were also usually class specific. You HAD to raid to get them. Blizzard made it so that everybody got a generic legendary item in MoP and WoD and let you do it in LFR and then even made it more casual than that by letting them drop from World Quests. You can literally get a legendary item without raiding. This is 100% the result of the casual audience trying to make it easier and easier to get legendary items.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Spending $60 on a character boost isn't not faster. Even more so when doing it a second time. Think about that for a second. You are willing to spend $120 (or 8 tokens for 1,024,000 gold). That is not "faster". Blizzard hasn't turned anything into something that makes you feel like shit. Players have. It is the problem in the players mind that there is BIS and Crap with nothing in between. It is in the players mind that if they don't get BIS on the first two legendaries then everything else in the game is crap.

No amount of system change by Blizzard will change that mindset of the player. If Blizzard changed the system they would just find a way to apply that mindset to the new system or apply it to a different system that is now ruining the game for them. Its fine to not like something but until you realize that majority of the issue lies with the player you won't begin to move on.

A-fucking-men!

This post sums up about 90% of complaints on these forums.

That being said, yes, it DOES suck getting a "bad" legendary and I hope they won't carry the system over into 8.0... but still, a lot of complaints come down to the mentality of the players, not some design choices. Just look at the people using what the world first-race players do and say as some sort of gauge for what the game is like to everyone for a fact...

[Traxwow]

The issue that I have with the legendary system is that it is completely random, and awards time spent, rather than focuses effort.

Previously legendaries was something you worked for. It required you to gather the appropriate materials, kill specific bosses, and ally yourself with friends, crafters, and certain factions to get a legendary.

Today, while more difficult content provides a higher chance of getting a legendary than easier content, it is still just that - a chance. And the legendary is random.

When the acquisition of great rewards is based on luck, rather than effort, the reward itself feels less enjoyable.

The randomness really does suck. You can't even really target a specific legendary. RNG just removes the even playing field.

[Teri]

The randomness really does suck. You can't even really target a specific legendary. RNG just removes the even playing field.

RNG with no goal in sight is indeed stupid design, sure you have the goal of "if you play that spec you get them all" , but there's simply too many imo.



People might argue "but it took weeks to drop a certain epic from a raid too" obviously that's true, but now they say the same and add "oh it didn't titanforge, so it's shit". And even so, loot trading made things different as well, Legendaries are purely Personal.

[satimy]

That's what he's talking about. Players have perpetuated the myth that these specs/classes don't "function" properly without certain leggos. The way they function without the leggos is how they're supposed to be. Leggos are simply an augmentation. Instead of looking at it like the legendary giving you a 20% bonus on top of their standard 100%, then look at needing the leggo to reach 100% otherwise they'll only be at 80%.

Its not a myth though, at least from a raiding standpoint. Look at arms parses for the first heroic boss, you dont get till after the top 500 parses where a log doesnt have the execute ring. If youre talking about someone that doesnt care at all about raiding outside of the occasional pug or LFR then yea sure, it doesnt matter.

[Rainedtbh]

To say the difference between getting Sephuz and Denial of the Half Giants as a Sub rogue is 5% difference at best is idiotic. Several specs are literally incapable of functioning in accordance to their core concept without specific legendaries, how exactly is that good design?

I just got Mantle of the Master Assassin yesterday. I have 2 more legendaries to get; Denial and Soul of the Shadowblade. I sifted through 5+ legendaries that might as well have an equip bonus reading "permanently removes 1 slot from your bank" It wasn't fun, it didn't create an exciting and memorable experience that I can recall with joy, it was just pure disappointment and frustration.

"But it's free stats!!!" No, it isn't. I am admittedly a big fan of both Prydaz and Will of Valeera, and I think those are utility legendaries implemented very well, and I know for a fact there will be (and there has been) situations where I will use those. But The First of the Dead? Cinidaria? I will never use those for ANYTHING. Looting those represents an opportunity for me to improve my character, but rng instead gave me literally nothing but a slightly larger chance to not get screwed over next time. A fresh character will not rejoice over looting the worst possible legendary for their spec, because the difference in performance is far larger than 5%.

And lastly, perhaps the MOST infuriating aspect of all is the spec based forced legendary drops. It would have been an immense boon to offspecs and alts if you could basically guarantee you 2 spec specific legendaries in a week, but of course they couldn't even get that right. For some utterly idiotic reason, neutral legendaries usurp that bonus. It's completely polarizing for a new character to receive 2 neutrals as their first 2 legendaries, compared to someone who manages to dodge neutrals and gain SIX (eight for druids) for "free". Neutrals are in almost every case inferior (Mantle of the Master Assassin is the exception), so it's not like you are even gaining 2 good legendaries.

Post AP-fix, legendaries is the worst system this game has ever seen. I have my gripes with titanforging, and I would prefer to have kept the ToT/SoO warforge system, but I can cope with it. Legendaries are just terrible, and not very "legendary" at all.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Several specs are literally cannot function according to their core concept without specific legendaries, how exactly is that good design?

It's not, and hopefully the massive amount of feedback to that effect means they'll think twice before trying the same thing in the upcoming expansions.

[Deleted]

If the difference between the BiS and everything else wasn't so extreme it really wouldn't be a problem... But right now the BiS legendaries are a massive increase.


What needs to happen to the legendary system is to remove all throughput legendaries, if we only had legendaries with utility effects, it would be fine.

Then the "BiS" legendary would be the one with the strongest survival bonus (aka prydaz) or the one with the best stats for your spec.

[shadowmatrix]

To say the difference between getting Sephuz and Denial of the Half Giants as a Sub rogue is 5% difference at best is idiotic. Several specs are literally incapable of functioning in accordance to their core concept without specific legendaries, how exactly is that good design?

Comments like this are why Blizzard doesn't take your complaints seriously. Incapable of functioning? So what happens when Blizzard has testers play the specs without legendaries and they function properly in accordance to their core concepts?

[mauserr]

Then the "BiS" legendary would be the one with the strongest survival bonus (aka prydaz) or the one with the best stats for your spec.

And the difference would be much smaller than what it is now. It would be a problem, but a very much smaller one.

[Deleted]

Comments like this are why Blizzard doesn't take your complaints seriously. Incapable of functioning? So what happens when Blizzard has testers play the specs without legendaries and they function properly in accordance to their core concepts?

To be fair, there are extreme examples like sub rogue. It took me 12 pages of logs to find one parse that did not use at least one of the two bis items, and 7 pages to start finding more than an occasional parse without both of them. It's similar issue with the other classes, where a single item can mean a difference between a good and a subpar result. Which is not a problem in itself, as there always were power spike items. The problem is just how random the acquisition process is. Same problem as the TF system has. Loot moved from an equivalent of a game of poker to monopoly levels of luck.

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And the difference would be much smaller than what it is now. It would be a problem, but a very much smaller one.

It's not really a solution if the silver lining is "it will be less of a problem next time around". There is no viable fix in legion without making a large portion of populace feel like shit, but I'm of opinion that the system is flawed in the core, and should not return next expansion.

[Rainedtbh]

Please try play BoS frost DK without ring and tell me how you get on. Or sub rogue. Or Legion launch arms warrior.

[cparle87]

Its not a myth though, at least from a raiding standpoint. Look at arms parses for the first heroic boss, you dont get till after the top 500 parses where a log doesnt have the execute ring. If youre talking about someone that doesnt care at all about raiding outside of the occasional pug or LFR then yea sure, it doesnt matter.

Soooo. The people who have the bonus ring do better than people without the ring. The top 500 parses are the 120% guys, and the ones below are the 100% guys. The problem is that people believe the 120% guys are what everyone should be and if you're not you're bad.

[hollafame]

Nothing this game offers is worth the time requirement that allows you to overcome your RNG fate. If there is no focused effort for a reward, I won't bother personally.

I swapped to Arms Warrior and I don't have the execute ring. If I burn myself out trying to get the ring, which from what I heard makes the rotation feel more fluid, then I'd probably quit the game anyway.

They've already made AP pointless to grind, they've already made BIS pointless to grind, legendary gear was already pointless to grind to begin with. Everything that requires a concentrated effort outside of doing dungeons, raids or pvp has been nix'd in some fashion by Blizzard. Introducing RNG elements into every facet of character progression will never draw more excitement than relief. Don't waste your time.

[Spiral Mage]

I'm glad I don't worry about this at all and just play for actual fun.

That said, this system is really not smart.
But it was like:
"I'm tired of everyone getting a Legendary!"
"Yeah, Legendaries should be rare and special!"
".. Wait, why haven't I gotten a MY Legendary yet?"
"Yeah, I WANT A LEGENDARY, WTF BLIZ!"
"EVERYONE needs to get a Legendary!"

I think the truth is more: "I want a Legendary but I don't want anyone else to have one."
Which is impossible.

So now everyone does, but whether it's any good or not, is pure RNG.
The question is,
should there be Legendaries at all?
Should the Legendaries in the game currently just be truly rare, so seeing someone with one is rare/special?
Or should there be no Legendaries in the game period?

What should be the expectation for having a Legendary?

I also concur that getting a good one is amazing, but getting a bad one feels fucking awful.
I know what Legendaries I want to get, because they're good, but I hold out no hope for it.
If it happens, cool, but I don't expect it.

But none of this stops me from playing the game for fun and enjoyment in the end.
S'all I've ever played this game for. Having fun with games is my only motivation for playing them.
I don't worry about a system I can't control. I just play the best I can with the cards I'm dealt.
I do sympathize with the OP though, a bad Legendary is very disappointing.
It just doesn't stop me from having fun with the game.

[Deathquoi]

Just making this clear that it isn't really a rant or a quitting post. I just need a place to express how it feels to play with this system.

After spending weeks of clearly every raid on heroic and doing both n/h tos + doing weekly M 15 along with multiple keys above 15, it feels like all that time was wasted. The AP gained is insignificant. The gear gained doesn't compare to what a good legendary could give.

I really hope Blizzard removes this system in the next xpac or I don't think I can justify playing this game because it's not fun. I enjoy playing alts and they have made that very difficult to do. I used to enjoy PvP but they took the fun out of it for me in WoD with class gutting. I'm not a top 1000 player, but I enjoy seeing my character progress and I try to get the best gear I can possibly get. I have had to lower those goals with the titan forging system which has made it essentially impossible to obtain BiS. I'm sitting on my 8th legendary and I don't even have the top 3 for my spec.

It's faster to boost to 100, level 110, and take a chance at the first 2 on the new toon. Gearing from fresh to 900 can be done near instantly and getting 900-910 can be done in a couple of raids. That is only if you get BiS legendary, which if you don't you can just boost another toon. It shouldn't be like this Blizzard. How do you turn a legendary into something that makes you feel like shit.

This is a mentality that is literally grounded in nothing. You have several ideas in your head that independently are wrong and toxic and together are just a perfect storm of ridiculousness. You are a prime example of not being able to save players from themselves. You are so maniacal about this game that you literally equate not getting the "right" item with being physically harmed and you are so upset about it that you feel that paying 60 dollars and throwing away the time you've already invested is the only solution (which makes literally zero sense, especially since that won't actually help you get the items you think you need to be successful). Take a step back, dude.

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If the difference between the BiS and everything else wasn't so extreme it really wouldn't be a problem... But right now the BiS legendaries are a massive increase.


What needs to happen to the legendary system is to remove all throughput legendaries, if we only had legendaries with utility effects, it would be fine.

Over no legendaries? Maybe. Over any random two legendaries? I really doubt it.

[Super Kami Dende]

It doesn't feel like getting punched if you are a normal adult with a control over their emotional capacities.

[Marrilaife]

I dont know how you guys play or how many houers a day you play but whit mi main mage playing 2 to 3h daily i have already all the legendaries for the 3 mage spec, by this time any1 that actually plays the game should have at least all the legendaries for 1 spec.
Btw if any1 interested how i farmed my legendaries was:
doing all lfr, normal, hc of all released raids and mythic of the curent raid
the daily caches
all the mythic +0 dungeons
and from 7.2 onwards all the wq on the broken shore to get lots of caches per 100 resources turned in
and 1 month ago i found out that the elite rares and the little tresure boxes on the broken shore can also drop legendaries (in fact got 2 legendaries from the elite rares on the broken shore)
Mythic keystone did really few of them only 2 or 3 per week.

Yes, I'm pretty sure running all these chores takes only 2-3h a day... Especially when you mention you're raiding mythic of the current raid which already takes 2-4 evenings per week out of calendar.

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To me there are two issues - the RNG that can leave you months and months behind someone who gets lucky, and the fact that it rewards you for endlessly grinding easy content - the amount of legendaries you get is actually negatively correlated with the amount of time you spend challenging yourself by doing hard content that takes longer.

Yep, it's pretty disgusting when we compare people who spend majority of the time doing challenging content - like high m+ pushing - to the people who just run easy faceroll content like lfr, m0s and nether portal farming and the second group is generously more rewarded. People wouldn't be "blaming the casuals" so much if the above wasn't the case.

[Tech614]

Yes, I'm pretty sure running all these chores takes only 2-3h a day... Especially when you mention you're raiding mythic of the current raid which already takes 2-4 evenings per week out of calendar.

It takes like 10-15 mins a day to clear the broken shore of quests, turn in 1-2 caches there(or more if had some follower quests rolling).

It takes like 30-45 mins to clear out all 3 emissaries every 3 days(or even shorter if you get lucky enough with overlap).

This is all that really matters. I have noticed very little difference in pace of acquired legionaries on my alts who basically only do this and normal ToS, vs main who does normal, heroic, mythic, LFR and multiple keys each week.

PVE content really doesn't add much BLP at all(if it even does). The questing certainly does and that isn't even close to time consuming.

[ls-]

TBQH, even getting something else from the boss instead of BiS epics for your spec feels shitty. Even if it's still an upgrade, it's not the BiS you're looking for. It's been this way since forever.

There's no way to avoid this situation, because that's how many humans work, some of us are loot driven.