The lore of this game is dead.

[Deleted]

Just turn your brain off with the Warcraft universe, even Kevin J. Anderson would be ashamed of serving up what passes for "writing" in this game.

[Resentless]

Was never a major city. It was a port town. It made literally no sense for it to not have been destroyed long ago with how cut off it is and in the middle of horde territory. It was a viable threat and probably the only thing I credit Garrosh for doing right.

Ofc it wasnt destroyed, thrall and jaina were good buddies and jainas faction of humans from lordaeron were almost entirely seperate from the humans of stormwind. Its a pretty good strategic place for the alliance, not really the middle of horde territory either. Horde territory following wc3 was basically Durotar-barrens-mulgore-bits of stonetalon. Central and Southern Kalimdor isnt just one big horde zone. Garrosh blowing it up was actually completely out of character and randomly retarded. Probably the worst thing he did. Unprovoked and just made the alliance and jaina in particular (most powerful mage besides khadgar?) now want horde blood. Literally retarded move unless he actually wanted war, which made 0 sense following his development in cata. His sudden change of character from his lessons in cata was one of the worst things blizz did in wow for a character they actually created during WoW's time. Compare him to Varian and just look at what happened.

A way better story would have been Garrosh and Varian both go into the Pandaria conflict as somewhat hot-headed but honorable leaders of their respective factions who both dislike the other as individuals and would love to fight. Horde has a bit more of a straight forward approach, willing to fight while the alliance is a little more diplomatic but also wants to fight. Varian+Garrosh get to pandaria in 5.1, both encounter the Sha. Garrosh wants to be like his dad. All he knew his entire life was that his father doomed the orcish race, drank the demons blood, doomed his planet, literally just the worst guy ever. His own father whom he never knew. Then thrall comes along and tells him grom SAVED the orcish race and beat his demons, both figuratively and literally, sacrificing himself in a tragic battle with the unfathomably massive and ancient pit lord mannoroth.

Garrosh now feels like his name means something and he has something to fight for. His anger at the alliance makes a bit of sense, considering the alliance invaded draenor and started wiping out orc clans, also not long after they arrived draenor went boom. They were always the enemy to him but not as much of one as when he gets to azeroth and sees that the horde is living in a desert while the alliance are thriving. Goes to northrend, wants to be aggressive and let out his rage that hes been holing up all this time against the alliance+scourge. Gets taught some lessons by saurfang and others. Goes into cata and learns more lessons about honor. Now sees the Sha and wants to conquer it unlike his father who gave into the demon blood. Unfortunately, garrosh is also incredibly insecure BECAUSE he wants to be like his father and is worried he'll never be as heroic as him. Varian conquers his doubts/hatred/despair/pride while garrosh eventually gives into it. His doubt over whether he is as good, his anger at the alliance, at thrall and whoever else, his violence (hes a hellscream afterall), hatred for varian, despair at the countless soldiers hes sent to his death after randomly being made leader of the horde (see what he says to thrall in WoD nagrand), fear that he will fail like his father did at first and pride at being his fathers son. Nice dichotomy going on.

Varian gets past all these trials of the Sha, in part thanks to his original trials as a gladiator and captive of onyxia and lessons he learned in wotlk/cata. Garrosh gives in and becomes the end boss. That would have been good writing. Instead garrosh was just randomly a douche canoe at the beginning of MoP despite everything he had learned in cata. This is the kind of sloppy blizzard writing we have today that I feel wouldnt have happened back in the wc3 days.

[Mojo03]

what do you mean EVEN SWTOR? SWTOR has one of the best storylines in video game history. You may dis that game for not having enough this or that, but what it certainly does is tell a heck of a story and from 8 different perspectives for the first 50 levels. It is also the best told MMO out there in every department concerning storytelling. Fuck it made the Guiness World records for that department. The game plays like a freaking movie.

It is great, which is why I made it an example of a well written game.

[Deathquoi]

Oh boohoohoo, the lore has evolved. WC3 was released almost 20 years ago, things change, get over it.

[Deleted]

Lore is something created to serve the gameplay. It's not a series of books or movies, it's a game.

[Phookah]

It's almost like this a game with subscribers on both sides and developers who want to continue making money by not alienating one side or the other

INSTEAD OF AN ACTUAL WAR.

Who knew?

[Hallowseve17]

Yeah...the whole "Army of Light" thing just rubs me the wrong way. I love the lore and still do, but to make Turalyon and Alleria (and to an extent Khadgar) neutral after everything they've done for the Alliance. I just don't get it. Also where are the other Sons of Lothar that were left with unknown statuses? I'm referring to Verana, Talthressar, Rellian, Herrick. Talthressar I thought for sure would've showed up on Argus.

Anyway, on the subject of war...I do miss the Alliance-Horde conflict. I understand bigger threats are being dealt with first, but I hope their conflict erupts again in the future. I played Horde primarily during Cata and MoP and really felt immersed in the war. It was fun.

[DaHomieG]

shut up .

[Katie45]

Yeah...the whole "Army of Light" thing just rubs me the wrong way. I love the lore and still do, but to make Turalyon and Alleria (and to an extent Khadgar) neutral after everything they've done for the Alliance. I just don't get it. Also where are the other Sons of Lothar that were left with unknown statuses? I'm referring to Verana, Talthressar, Rellian, Herrick. Talthressar I thought for sure would've showed up on Argus.

Anyway, on the subject of war...I do miss the Alliance-Horde conflict. I understand bigger threats are being dealt with first, but I hope their conflict erupts again in the future. I played Horde primarily during Cata and MoP and really felt immersed in the war. It was fun.

and in cata I felt annoyed my faction wasn't doing anything and everything was locked by playing horde, I'll give you mop, that was closest they got the faction done good.

[Teri]

Lore will be written, and retconned at will.

Chronicle hasn't even touched Warcraft 3 yet.

Chronicle 3 is still months away, but even so, if they make a Chronicle 4 in 2019 it will always be playing Catchup....

[Dispraise]

The lore and storytelling of the game has never been it's strong suit.

[m4xc4v413r4]

I still believe this is a cheap excuse for reusing dead characters instead of creating new ones.

But they're not dead when they reused them. Demons don't die unless killed in the nether. That has been like that since the start, it's part of the lore.

[yetgdhfgh]

Blizz writes lore around gameplay when it should be the other way round.

Gameplay should come out of the natural progression of the lore.

[Allenseiei]

The Sons of Lothar were the greatest heroes of the Alliance.

World of Warcraft
"Surprise, muddafookers! We're all neutral heroes!"

Alliance fans of the RTS
*Facepalm*

P.S. An obligatory shout-out to the elves of Quel'Thalas being shoehorned into the Horde.

So after fighting thousands of years against the Legion they should divide and start a war in azeroth so we lose and the planet gets burned to the ground?
Logic *facepalms* harder than those narrowminded RTS players.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Are people really this ignorant? Don't they understand what "dead" actually means?

You thinking something sucks for whatever reasons =/= it being dead. I think the Kardashians suck, but they're alive and kicking!

Besides, they did try to add new villains and new lore with MoP, and see what that got them... massive backlash of "Stop pulling story out your ass and gief the good old stuff!!!"...

[StationaryHawk]

There's no war in warcraft.

If there's no war, who and why have I been fighting?

Dalaran is not strictly humans, and not all humans are required to fall into the same category. The mana bomb that destroyed Theramore was enhanced by the Focusing Iris, which the Horde lost in the process. Vol'jin did not eat an arrow. Kil'jaeden made two appearances, nearly a decade apart. Zul'jin was a raid boss. You'll have to elaborate on what irks you about Benedictus being corrupted. All of Khadgar, Turalyon, and Alleria arguably encountered situations that gave them a broader view than just the Alliance.

From what I can tell, you prefer faction conflict, and disagree with any developments that pull characters away from one side or the other. That's a fair opinion to have, and one that doesn't align with Blizzard's own, so I'm afraid you'll continue to be disappointed. However, not knowing the details isn't really an excuse to bash writing.

[Decyde]

You ready for Blizzcon where they are going to release a Wrath of the Lich King expansion with the HotS devs shitting on it to make it more like their game.

[Auxora]

As far as no war in Warcraft, I know this isn't a popular opinion but I 100% think Blizz killed the war in warcraft when they allowed people to roll both factions on the same realm. It killed wpvp and city raids on pvp realms. It ruined any sense of "my" faction vs. theirs, or pride in either faction. Everyone rolled toons on both sides and took the whole alliance vs. horse rivalry and really totally squashed it. Any wpvp or alliance vs. horde finished off being killed by flying in Azeroth in Cataclysm, and too many expansions of the sides needing to work together vs. a common enemy.

So that definitely hurt lore because it's very hard to keep up a lore storyline of the factions hating each other when we're always working together, more like grumpy neighbors than dire enemies. And probably most importantly we're in uncharted territory right now where wow is transitioning from lore largely written and designed by Metzen and to a smaller degree Holinka who are both gone now. It sounds like Christie Golden who worked with Metzen and wrote many of the best wow books is part of the team picking that up now, so I think it's in good hands. For that reason and Golden's influence I wouldn't be surprised to see some lore storylines in the next expansion that are a bit darker than Metzen. Many of her stories really pull on the heartstrings in sad ways.

[Skyduke]

I play Horde for all the people whining about me being an Alliance fanboy.

The lore is just really, really bad. Flimsy at best, pathetic at worst. One expansion is "We really hate each other and we are almost going to war" and the next one is "Now there is a bigger enemy and we will work together". They are actually running out of material from W3 by the way. So maybe that will force them to come up with something a little bit original, though given MoP I shiver to imagine what that will be.

Suddenly making people "The head of their orders" - everyone becomes a special rainbow... And now there are millions of people running around with ASHBRINGER.

Really?

Not saying the gameplay is bad, but the lore, the lore has just been shit on repeatedly.

[Skoll Shorties]

Sounds like a lot of... HOOPLA.