The lore of this game is dead.

[netherflame]

The Sons of Lothar were the greatest heroes of the Alliance.

World of Warcraft
"Surprise, muddafookers! We're all neutral heroes!"

Alliance fans of the RTS
*Facepalm*

P.S. An obligatory shout-out to the elves of Quel'Thalas being shoehorned into the Horde.

The humans and the night elves literally think they are the only worthy beings on the planet, why would the high elves driven mad by a thirst for magic want to join them? and even then you know they wouldn't be welcome.

[Silent Earth]

You're conflating "Lore" with the two-faction system that was developed for the RTS(s) and is, at this point, well past it's sell-by date. Lore is much more than who is on red team or blue team.

[Skoll Shorties]

You're conflating "Lore" with the two-faction system that was developed for the RTS(s) and is, at this point, well past it's sell-by date. Lore is much more than who is on red team or blue team.

Now I want to watch Red vs Blue again, thank you. I do mean that though. I love that show anyways.

[Caerule]

"Oh my god, why isn't World of Warcraft just the middle of Warcraft 3, frozen forever, with nothing but PvP?!!"

Stories evolve, man. There's just so many people whose brains aren't built for playing a game that isn't static. WoW can't be a book, forever the same.

I love that the story moves forward. That people are allowed to change. That people make different decisions. And that the game appeals to different people, in different ways. If it was up to me, WoW wouldn't even have PvP. Nor would there be any Alliance/Horde conflict after the peace reached in the second war. But I don't campaign against it, because it's there for those that do enjoy it.

People are so gleeful to jump onto the "Lore is bad" train these days. Get high fives from everyone there because it's the popular negative thing to say. There's just so many people who yell it out, when a character doesn't make the exact same decision they as outside observer would have made. Even if none of us would agree on what that decision should be either, and lore characters should be as diverse, different, crazy, misguided or dumb as us.

I don't always agree with Blizzard's decisions. There are times when I feel I had a better idea, or just don't like their approach. Or see shortcomings. But overall? I love the lore. I think they're doing a decent job.

I also thing a lot of people just yell "lol, lore sucks, I dun care anymore" as an excuse for ignorance and unwillingness to dive into it.

[TheVaryag]

They have written absolutely nothing new which is not absolute garbage. The only "original" (read: not present in Warcraft 1, 2 or 3 and not retconned over and over because they have no imagination) was MoP, and we got Pandas and Monks from that. I'm not even going to go there.

The fact that this game is not about PvP makes "Warcraft" inane. They are forced to make heroes of the Horde and of the Alliance into either raid bosses or neutral questgivers, because they cba to come up with new original and well written characters, and because creating content that fits everyone is faster than creating content that differs for either side.

Dalaran? Human city, two times hub. Neutral.
Theramore? Major alliance city... Destroyed with a "cutscene" of a goblin dropping a bomb on it (why not do it to all the alliance cities then? Seriously, who the FUCK wrote this?)
Vol'Jin? Eats an arrow, names Sylvanas warchief (Really? Lol...)
Kil'jaeden and Archimonde just reused, tired. Hopefully they are really dead and this isn't a setback this time.
Zul'jin? Boss in an instance easily forgotten.
Thrall? Pointless Mary Sue. Had to pull him out of the Horde and sideline him because he was getting so tired too.
Archbishop Benedictus? Lolcorrupted.
Khadgar-Turalyon-Alleria = All neutral ('cause that makes sense and writing is sooooo hard)

There's no war in warcraft. Can't write that one faction wins because it pisses off the other. Can't make real changes to the world. Gotta keep the status quo.

WE HATE EACH OTHER BUT THE REAL ENEMIES ARE OUT THERE SO LET'S HOLD HANDS TEMPORARILY! BEWARE WE WILL GO BACK TO BEING MEAN TO EACH OTHER IN THE NEXT EXPANSION.

But in the one after that... There will be another foe that will force a "temporary" truce.

I'll start with this, you're right and I totally agree with you. And as a 12 year long player of WoW ever since Vanilla I couldn't be more happy someone Is also noticing the unoriginality, constant retconning and re-useage of past glory of nostalgia that WoW seems to live on for the past few expansions.

Secondly,their whole Idea for WoW since always, was to be everything for everyone and have always failed at being that, they wanted to be for casuals, for hardcore players, for all kinds of players but they fail on both fronts and especially Legion Is a prime example and culmination of that Ideal.

I agree Wow should have a more emphasis on the "Conflict" not nececerily PvPing as that's not for everyone, you can easily weave the whole conflict thing Into quests as well as general PvPing. I felt that was half the reason I liked Cataclysm, cause finally, large scale war with the Alliance scum (Orc In da house!) as the 4th was really beginning after the Wrathgate Incident upon which Varian declared war on the Horde (Yes he started It, sorta) and more so after the whole Lich King thing stopped, they really went all out on the conflict thing around azeroth and the changed Cataclysm zones... and despite the absolute clusterfudge of an expansion, I liked that part of It, the conflict rising up and ending In MoP with a disapointing twist of Garrosh being the big bad, but oh well.

But yeah, Vol'jin thing? Really bad I don't even know why, still don't like a non-orc being Warchief, Saurfang Is right there.

KJ and Archi.. just so bad, KJ felt like some random whatever boss now that we actually got to "Kill" him, I hope for real. And Archi... just so bad to have used him In WoD, It truly defeated the point of us defeating him In WC3, same as for when Med'an became "Guardian" as that defeated the whole ENDING of Warcraft 3 where Medivh said "Mortals don't need guardians anymore, I'm the last one, literaly that's my title" but no.... It's cool to reuse him... bleh.

Zul'jin... didn't think of that, could be more of a thing for him.
Thrall Is just dead, cause the voice of his Metzen Is retired (Doesn't mean he can't voice Thrall) but really, he won't take any major roles now.
Khadgar Tury and Ally are the worst, sure we're neutral... we see the light, we're all friends, hugs and stuff... just no, you're alliance scum i want to kill you. And not to spoil 7.3 with the datamined stuff, but I hate how Alleria ends up... like really? That's not even mentioning Illidan and their whole Child of Light and Darkness not going anywhere and probably retconned IN THE SAME EXPANSION.

It's like, each expansion we hold hands kinda sorta, then we go back to fighting, and a minute Into the fight another threat arises and we join hands again.. It's truly boring, i agree.

I hope Blizzard does make some drastic lore changes In the next expansion, begin explaining their lore gaps properly and make new characters. You know what I really want?

I just finished playing Mass Effect Andromeda, 70 hours, 1 month or so I've been playing It. It gave us a new galaxy, new races, new things to worry about, a big looming threat, hard decisions (Despite the horrible UI, crafting and other minor things) the story was amazing.

I want that ^ In WoW, new planet, entirely, new, planet we never heared of, new races, new landscapes.... everything new.

By the way, we have great lore chars In our order halls just sitting around doing nothing. The best example Is Calia Menethil, Arthas' sister you say? Surely she'd play an Important role? She just stands around doing nothing? Yup that's what she does. Retaking Lordaeron? No that'd be silly, why? Calia is neutral now, no hate for the Undead who slaughtered her family, or the brother who became the ruler of the undead... no no no. No emotions at all for the bloody sister of ARTHAS MENETHIL... you have great potential story RIGHT THERE sitting In your order halls among other places, and Calia just being the most noticeable and recognized one.

[LegendaryDude]

The faction conflict is outdated and boring, no longer serves a purpose, and i'm glad the game is not focused around it, but around things that actually matter.

[boots1991]

I love the lore, the lore is the only reason i'm still interested in WoW.
My biggest gripe right now with it is -

Our characters are super powerful now. Army's lay wasted in our wake. We even defeat a world soul/Titan.
So some big squid God comes out, not that different compared to 3 other threats we have faced It has some snake ppl who we have been grinding forever.
So scary, so intimidating, such threat...not really.
WoW has always had threats that were large and exiting. The next is a consistently defeated old god with some grand plan that will ultimately fail.

Sargeras and the Legion are the top tier threat for wow. Always have been.

If only Blizz had gone with the Mongrel Horde concept instead of WoD, perhaps we could have avoided this mess.

[Ogren]

The lore has pretty much been declining since Cataclysm, and arguably since the end of Wrath. IMO, it's only really worth caring about if you're already a huge fan of Humans, the Elf races, and Forsaken, since these are the only races Blizzard still gives some form of quality storytelling or advancement in the lore.

But for the rest of the races they just... don't care to give any depth or tell good stories with.

[Captain Kennedy]

The best example Is Calia Menethil, Arthas' sister you say? Surely she'd play an Important role? She just stands around doing nothing? Yup that's what she does. Retaking Lordaeron? No that'd be silly, why? Calia is neutral now, no hate for the Undead who slaughtered her family, or the brother who became the ruler of the undead... no no no. No emotions at all for the bloody sister of ARTHAS MENETHIL... you have great potential story RIGHT THERE sitting In your order halls among other places, and Calia just being the most noticeable and recognized one.

This is probably one of the biggest missed opportunities of finally including a rarely spoken of character. I find it mind boggling she has fuck all to say about EVERYTHING that happened.

The faction conflict is outdated and boring, no longer serves a purpose, and i'm glad the game is not focused around it, but around things that actually matter.

I miss the faction conflict, especially after the patch content for MoP like 5.1 and 5.2. Because it showed interesting characters on both sides, and the inner politics of each faction. A number of leaders finally got some well deserved attention for a bit. Obviously Ashran was dumb, and yes Stormheim was utterly pointless and completely failed to move the Forsaken V Gilneas story along. But the faction conflict can be done well. And at the end of the day what made the original games and stories so great was the faction conflict. Even WC3 had faction conflict despite a big team up. The inner politics of the Scourge and Burning Legion were a particular stand out. Multi perspective stories are what make warcraft warcraft in my opinion. A good multi perspective faction war story can be done again. And they have the ability to make NPC factions far more interesting internally if they put their minds to it.

[Restors]

I play Horde for all the people whining about me being an Alliance fanboy.

The lore is just really, really bad. Flimsy at best, pathetic at worst. One expansion is "We really hate each other and we are almost going to war" and the next one is "Now there is a bigger enemy and we will work together". They are actually running out of material from W3 by the way. So maybe that will force them to come up with something a little bit original, though given MoP I shiver to imagine what that will be.

Suddenly making people "The head of their orders" - everyone becomes a special rainbow... And now there are millions of people running around with ASHBRINGER.

Really?

Not saying the gameplay is bad, but the lore, the lore has just been shit on repeatedly.

Dont worry. They ruined WC3 characters, now they will ruin The Chronicles novels next.

[My User Name]

By the way, we have great lore chars In our order halls just sitting around doing nothing. The best example Is Calia Menethil, Arthas' sister you say? Surely she'd play an Important role? She just stands around doing nothing? Yup that's what she does. Retaking Lordaeron? No that'd be silly, why? Calia is neutral now, no hate for the Undead who slaughtered her family, or the brother who became the ruler of the undead... no no no. No emotions at all for the bloody sister of ARTHAS MENETHIL... you have great potential story RIGHT THERE sitting In your order halls among other places, and Calia just being the most noticeable and recognized one.

"Great potential story"
Calia does not have enough manpower and support to retake Lordaeron. And an unsupported claim rarely prospers.
Let's take a look at facts, shall we?

1) The Forsaken IS Lordaeron. It IS the people of Lordaeron. It's the same old Lordaeron only their bodies are rotting and they chose to follow a new leader.
2) Calia is just an ordinary priest now. She does not have an army or supporters neither she can find them. Those who survived the Scourge of Lordaeron either are refugees in Stormwind/another city or already joined the Argent Dawn/Scarlet Crusade. SC is dead and AD became Order of the Silver Hand which has a chance of being led by a Horde-alligned paladin.
3) We're in the middle of a fucking alien invasion, why would she strike at the heart of the Forsaken? We need manpower and resources against the REAL threat, not against allies.
4) The only one who would support Calia's claim is Genn Greymane and he is already a part of the Alliance whose king is the most pacifist guy in this entire series. Other King/Queen candidates who'd support her against Forsaken? Danath Trollbane doesn't give two fucks about Stromgarde and probably died on the Broken Shore after that crash and Thoras is already loyal to the Ebon Blade. I'm pretty sure Blizzard forgot about Isiden. Maybe Jaina can support Calia but we don't know what happened to her.
5) Who would support a Menethil after what Arthas has done?

[Raetary]

Danath Trollbane doesn't give two fucks about Stromgarde and probably died on the Broken Shore after that crash

danath is well and alive.

he helped the warriors with their artifact, and is now chilling in dalaran.

[Flurryfang]

"Oh my god, why isn't World of Warcraft just the middle of Warcraft 3, frozen forever, with nothing but PvP?!!"

Stories evolve, man. There's just so many people whose brains aren't built for playing a game that isn't static. WoW can't be a book, forever the same.

I love that the story moves forward. That people are allowed to change. That people make different decisions. And that the game appeals to different people, in different ways. If it was up to me, WoW wouldn't even have PvP. Nor would there be any Alliance/Horde conflict after the peace reached in the second war. But I don't campaign against it, because it's there for those that do enjoy it.

People are so gleeful to jump onto the "Lore is bad" train these days. Get high fives from everyone there because it's the popular negative thing to say. There's just so many people who yell it out, when a character doesn't make the exact same decision they as outside observer would have made. Even if none of us would agree on what that decision should be either, and lore characters should be as diverse, different, crazy, misguided or dumb as us.

I don't always agree with Blizzard's decisions. There are times when I feel I had a better idea, or just don't like their approach. Or see shortcomings. But overall? I love the lore. I think they're doing a decent job.

I also thing a lot of people just yell "lol, lore sucks, I dun care anymore" as an excuse for ignorance and unwillingness to dive into it.

It is good that the stories evolve, its just sad that the it is evolving to a worse state.

I challenge you to find great lore in the last 2 expansions, which i can not shoot down in 1 sentence.

[Jester Joe]

danath is well and alive.

he helped the warriors with their artifact, and is now chilling in dalaran.

Yep, saw him standing in some random Inn, I was a bit confused.

He swears they won't get him a 3rd time though.


Also, for the OP, there are issues with WoW lore of course, it's not flawless. But it would be literally trash tier writing if there was Faction war shoved into every single corner of the game. It's almost like, the risk of Azeroth being destroyed is far greater than "Hey, let's go steal the Night Elves' woods while they're not looking again!".

[Flurryfang]

The lore has pretty much been declining since Cataclysm, and arguably since the end of Wrath. IMO, it's only really worth caring about if you're already a huge fan of Humans, the Elf races, and Forsaken, since these are the only races Blizzard still gives some form of quality storytelling or advancement in the lore.

But for the rest of the races they just... don't care to give any depth or tell good stories with.

Aside from having a change in leadership now and then, nothing is really happening to the humans either. Aside from Jaina and Anduin, what Stromwind human have a role in the current story? None of what i can see. Even though it is the meetingpoint of the entire alliance, very little is actually happening in stormwind or with its people.

[Deleted]

Just because you think it's garbage, doesn't mean that the lore is dead. That's on you.

No, honestly, anyone who thinks that the story and lore of this game is worth the waste of time spent reading it in games/books should get their head checked. Like, you can google better fanfiction written by 15 year olds. I've always played this game because I like to play it with my friends but after 12 years of WoW, after over two decades of Warcraft, I sometimes regret all that effort because when someone asks what these games are about, like, "the story must be interesting since you've played them so long" - man, it's just crap. Sure, these games offer momentary enjoyment but it never, ever comes from the story because its so damn bad.

[Flurryfang]

WoW really does not need a constant war between the factions. It is only natural, that peace comes when bigger enemies show up. Conflict should always be there, since there are big moral and cultural differences between the factions, so personal grudges and tiny encounters like the Sylvanas/Greymane battle is okay, but having a peace-king like Anduin is great aswell.


That said, if there is no war going on, something else has to replace it. Replacing our common enemy with something bigger and bigger is not really gonna give new stuff to the story, especially if Blizzard will ignore the battles of the past. The war before had a purpose: It allowed characters to interact and take action against something. We need characters to interact, we need characters to progress, evolve and change. We also need the world to actually show what has happend before. How is the world different after MoP? Or after WoD? From the games perspective, MoP and WoD might aswell not have happend and it really pushes it forward, that we play in a world that is stuck in time and is not reacting to things happening around it.

So to be fair, the story/lore is "bad" because there are not enough characters, that act and interact with/upon the world and the world does not react to the story itself.

[Khaza-R]

Consistency has always been Blizzards biggest downfall. Since they have none. WarCraft has more plotholes and retcons than any franchise I can possibly think of. After a while you just stop caring because it isn't a cohesive story being told anymore but a episodic mess that just tries to guess what will $ell most with each next expansion

[Flurryfang]

No, honestly, anyone who thinks that the story and lore of this game is worth the waste of time spent reading it in games/books should get their head checked. Like, you can google better fanfiction written by 15 year olds. I've always played this game because I like to play it with my friends but after 12 years of WoW, after over two decades of Warcraft, I sometimes regret all that effort because when someone asks what these games are about, like, "the story must be interesting since you've played them so long" - man, it's just crap. Sure, these games offer momentary enjoyment but it never, ever comes from the story because its so damn bad.

One would believe, that after nearly 20 years of Warcraft, that Blizzard would have enough background lore to make amazing stories with alot of characters and surprising twists.

[thatmikeguy]

The only dead part will be warlocks after 7.3 what will be their point in lore, old hat?