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  1. #1

    BiS Arms legends: TO THE GROUND!

    As someone who doesn't have either, I say w/e since I'm not reliant on them. Sucks for the rest of you though

  2. #2
    They'll probably still be the best lol

  3. #3
    How are you gonna say helm will be bis and say deadly calm will be good? Bladestorm makes it impossible to spend rage and ravager gives so much rage that rage starvation isn't an issue...

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviriato View Post
    helm will probably be bis, i feel like ayalas wont be good anymore, mostly because of the massive amount of crit, will probably push gloves, back up or make the new class ring better. as weak as deadly calm is, being able to spam abilities buring bc without going rage starved shortly there after might be a plus
    Ayalas is still good EP is just too good, ayalas will always been good as long as we have that

    Umm they didn't nerf our rage regen so I dunno what the hell you smoking

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Wasn't the Helm just so good because you could BS, get the buff, then switch to ravager? I know it has synergy with our 4 pc, but that is fine I think.
    Also, for the ring I would have preferred if they made it a 30 Rage execute, because reducing the proccchance just makes it more random.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviriato View Post
    helm still synergizes well with bc/ravager, has out 2 best stats... in conjunction with the tier helm being the worst tier piece

    will current fight lengths logs are showing 6-9 procs with ayalas... as fight lengths get shorter and with a 40% reduced proc chance it wont be out of the realm of possibility that it could only proc 3-4 times per fight... adding to the fact it has way too much of our worst stat it loses value quickly and could potentially move something like the gloves back into top 2 which would replace a tier piece with 2 weaker stats

    also since its apparently hard for you to read properly i never stated helm would be bis, i stated it probably would be bis... i also never stated ayalas wouldnt be good... i said i felt like it wouldn't be good. reading comprehension must no longer be something they teach in school
    Jesus, the personal attacks. I think you're the one lacking reading comprehension as I never disagreed that helm or ayala's will still be good, just that deadly calm is gonna still be shit as per my reasoning. You can't say helm is gonna be good and also say deadly calm is going to be good, deadly calm will be shit if helm is good, they are mutually exclusive. Don't resort to personal attacks and argue with logic please.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviriato View Post
    "How are you gonna say helm will be bis"

    words you said not me, and i feel like your missing the point... the class ring adds deadly calm without having to change any of our current talents, so it has ZERO to do with the helm. Merely as an alternative to execute proc ring that got nerfed. Class ring has good stat allocation.
    read the complete sentence. How are you gonna say helm will be bis AND ALSO SAY DEADLY CALM WILL BE GOOD. You can't just read the first half the sentence and interpolate the meaning. I was conveying that if helm is good then deadly calm can't also be good as per my reasoning.

    It has everything to do with the helm. Deadly calm only gives us rage regen during BC. And if you are equipping the helm, it makes BC even more important to go with BS/Ravager, and during those times rage gen is completely unnecessary as you are either not spending rage in case of Bladestorm, and generating a lot of rage from Ravager, just leading to overcapping. We will have to see the sims but I predict that the class ring will still be worse than the stat stick legendaries like the wrist or belt.

    Don't take everything personally when people argue with you, it's not good for your health.
    Last edited by l10f; 2017-07-22 at 03:29 AM.

  8. #8
    Pretty ridiculous and a big nerf mid-tier.

    These two changes should have happened pre-tier before any aura adjusting happened (aka the 5% overall nerf). Arms will be fine to be sure, but there were 5 specs destroying TOS -- boomy, sub, affli, arms, and spriest. Sub is getting tickled, arms is eating a sizeable 9%, and the other three are left completely untouched. Very inconsistent.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Anbokr View Post
    Pretty ridiculous and a big nerf mid-tier.

    These two changes should have happened pre-tier before any aura adjusting happened (aka the 5% overall nerf). Arms will be fine to be sure, but there were 5 specs destroying TOS -- boomy, sub, affli, arms, and spriest. Sub is getting tickled, arms is eating a sizeable 9%, and the other three are left completely untouched. Very inconsistent.
    How about you open your Eyes ? Affli got nerfed. Sub got Legendary nerfs. Shadow is good when he can keep lots of Dots up( AS IT SHOULD BE ). Moonkin? whats the problem with Moonkin. Dominating some Fights thanks to Starfall is fine

  10. #10
    Even if these nerf amounted to an 10% overall nerf, which i doupt it would be, we would still be middle of the pack at worst. Abit sad, but not the end of the world.

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
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    Where are these nerfs at?

    Edit: nevermind
    Last edited by WskyDK; 2017-07-22 at 05:12 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Covfefe View Post
    Where are these nerfs at?
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...s-for-june-25/


    Originally Posted by Kaivax
    Arms
    • The Great Storm's Eye damage bonus per stack reduced to 2% (was 4%).
    • Ayala's Stone Heart now procs 40% less often for Arms Warriors.

  13. #13
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
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    So obviously we still need sims, but what's the feeling on next best ST legendary?
    I don't have my 4pc yet, and I'm hanging out around 650k @902 ilvl, and that seems low to me

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by xqt View Post
    How about you open your Eyes ? Affli got nerfed. Sub got Legendary nerfs. Shadow is good when he can keep lots of Dots up( AS IT SHOULD BE ). Moonkin? whats the problem with Moonkin. Dominating some Fights thanks to Starfall is fine
    The big 5 in mythic TOS currently are sub, boomy, arms, spriest, and arms. Affli is not getting nerfed. Shadow is not getting nerfed. Boomy is not getting nerfed. Sub is getting tickled. Arms is eating a 10%.

    The numbers aren't with you here, there are 5 overperforming specs and one is eating a fairly large nerfbat while the others are squeaking by unscathed. You can argue that arms brings more favorable damage because it's more frontloaded/bursty, but damage is damage -- whether it's sustained or burst and all 5 of these specs are indeed overperforming relative to the rest of the pack. Only one is getting crushed.

    Quote Originally Posted by apojaja View Post
    Even if these nerf amounted to an 10% overall nerf, which i doupt it would be, we would still be middle of the pack at worst. Abit sad, but not the end of the world.
    Of course it's not the end of the world but it's a 10% nerf mid-tier, mid-progression, while the surrounding specs (up at the top with arms) remain untouched. Sub is the only one alongside arms eating a nerf, and the sub nerf is very mild compared to the Arms one.

    Again, this legendary tuning needed to happen pre-TOS before any of the aura nerfs hit. This is the equivalent of Fury getting hit with an exclusive -40% to draught mid-NH tier.
    Last edited by Anbokr; 2017-07-22 at 05:30 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Anbokr View Post
    The big 5 in mythic TOS currently are sub, boomy, arms, spriest, and arms. Affli is not getting nerfed. Shadow is not getting nerfed. Boomy is not getting nerfed. Sub is getting tickled. Arms is eating a 10%.

    The numbers aren't with you here, there are 5 overperforming specs and one is eating a fairly large nerfbat while the others are squeaking by unscathed. You can argue that arms brings more favorable damage because it's more frontloaded/bursty, but damage is damage -- whether it's sustained or burst and all 5 of these specs are indeed overperforming relative to the rest of the pack. Only one is getting crushed.



    Of course it's not the end of the world but it's a 10% nerf mid-tier, mid-progression, while the surrounding specs (up at the top with arms) remain untouched. Sub is the only one alongside arms eating a nerf, and the sub nerf is very mild compared to the Arms one.

    Again, this legendary tuning needed to happen pre-TOS before any of the aura nerfs hit. This is the equivalent of Fury getting hit with an exclusive -40% to draught mid-NH tier.
    what about arms tho

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Anbokr View Post
    The big 5 in mythic TOS currently are sub, boomy, arms, spriest, and arms. Affli is not getting nerfed. Shadow is not getting nerfed. Boomy is not getting nerfed. Sub is getting tickled. Arms is eating a 10%.

    The numbers aren't with you here, there are 5 overperforming specs and one is eating a fairly large nerfbat while the others are squeaking by unscathed. You can argue that arms brings more favorable damage because it's more frontloaded/bursty, but damage is damage -- whether it's sustained or burst and all 5 of these specs are indeed overperforming relative to the rest of the pack. Only one is getting crushed.



    Of course it's not the end of the world but it's a 10% nerf mid-tier, mid-progression, while the surrounding specs (up at the top with arms) remain untouched. Sub is the only one alongside arms eating a nerf, and the sub nerf is very mild compared to the Arms one.

    Again, this legendary tuning needed to happen pre-TOS before any of the aura nerfs hit. This is the equivalent of Fury getting hit with an exclusive -40% to draught mid-NH tier.
    Affli got Nerfed
    Sub gets Nerfed
    Shadow doesnt need a Nerf
    Moonkin doesnt need a Nerf

    Instead buff the other Classes

  17. #17
    the biggest gripe i have about these nerfs.

    the arms rotation is literal boring ass dog shit, the only thing exciting about it was ayala's procs. nerfing ayala means we prob wont use it anymore, which means some boring ass shit until 20%.

  18. #18
    High Overlord Ansi's Avatar
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    Ayalas is still BiS.

    Live: ryzohsim.000webhostapp.com/Live.html

    After nerfs: ryzohsim.000webhostapp.com/Nerfs.html


    Sims courtesy of Ryzoh.

  19. #19
    This does look bad. I think fury might be better now lool.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by xqt View Post
    Affli got Nerfed
    Sub gets Nerfed
    Shadow doesnt need a Nerf
    Moonkin doesnt need a Nerf

    Instead buff the other Classes
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#dataset=90

    Affli is not getting nerfed with these hotfixes. If you're referring to the nerfs from months ago, arms also got nerfed then and those are irrelevant with respect to the current discussion -- we're talking about what "should" be nerfed now.

    I don't think any spec, ever, should receive a 9-10% nerf mid-tier. It's ridiculous. We can sit here and say sure, Arms will be "OK" or "deserved" a nerf mid-tier, then you also have to apply that logic to the specs performing as well as if not "better" than Arms. Of course that's all subjective, but the logs consistently show 5 specs overperforming compared to the lower clusters -- boomy, arms, affli, spriest, and sub. Arms got a large nerf today. Sub got a smaller nerf today. The other three made out like bandits today.

    We can keep this charade going I guess where you just quote me saying X doesn't need a nerf, and I quote you explaining how A, B, C, D, and E probably need nerfs, but the timing is poor. Legendary nerfs like this should have happened pre-TOS, PTR, before any aura tweaking went out. Very poor timing for mid-tier.

    tldr: The nerfs themselves might be "fine", but the timing and sequence of nerfs (aura nerfs early on AND THEN legendary nerfs) is extremely poor.

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