Shoulder and Denial Nerf Inc.

[Varolyn]

Rogue

All Specs
Mantle of the Master Assassin duration reduced to 5 seconds (was 6 seconds).
Subtlety
Denial of the Half-Giants cooldown reduction reduced to 0.2 seconds per combo point spent (was 0.3 seconds).

Seems kind of minor, but I don't really like how the shoulder is nerfed for all specs as sin and outlaw aren't exactly topping the meters right now.
Thoughts?

Edit: These changes will be live on the 25th.

[Deleted]

About damn time.

Blizzard actually making some necessary changes finally.

[TheRogue]

Yeah the drive by nerf to Sin and Outlaw is cruel.

Sub did need a rebalance by itself, because if you dont have those 2 leggos, you cant play the spec. They will still be BiS anyway after this. Maybe the vigor ring will rise

[Deleted]

unnecessary to nerf it for both sin and outlaw when pretty much the only reason it's getting nerfed is subtlety

[Varolyn]

Yeah the drive by nerf to Sin and Outlaw is cruel.

Sub did need a rebalance by itself, because if you dont have those 2 leggos, you cant play the spec. They will still be BiS anyway after this. Maybe the vigor ring will rise

Vigor ring/bracers was relatively close to shoulders/bracers for sub, you just needed the right gear and relic set-up for it to work. It could be the new standard combo for sub after these changes but then again, it's not like we have anything to test these changes atm, unless if they are on the ptr now.

The shoulder nerf imo hurts outlaw the most, as sin at least has other options (boots, bracers, helm). For outlaw, regardless if playing SnD or RtB, the shoulders are kind of mandatory and the spec currently is in a pretty bad spot.

[Won7on]

Yeah the drive by nerf to Sin and Outlaw is cruel.

Sub did need a rebalance by itself, because if you dont have those 2 leggos, you cant play the spec. They will still be BiS anyway after this. Maybe the vigor ring will rise

Not even close, Vigor + Bracers + 2p + 4p already sims almost identical to a Shoulder/Bracer setup.

[Deleted]

Cant wait to play Subtlety next tier with 30% SB uptime. Its gonna be GLORIOUS.

[Won7on]

Cant wait to play Subtlety next tier with 30% SB uptime. Its gonna be GLORIOUS.

Not sure what you mean by that, the spec has 50%+ Shadow Blades uptime right now?

[Deleted]

I was already using the ring much of the time and the shoulder nerf isn't that big of a deal considering both eviscerates will still be able to fit inside it.

[Deleted]

I was already using the ring much of the time and the shoulder nerf isn't that big of a deal considering both eviscerates will still be able to fit inside it.

The Problem is, that speccs like sin or outlol get nerfed as well, and they not in a really nice spot anyway... they just wanna force us to use other legendaries as well, which is not a nice way to balance ...-.-

[Eazy]

They should've boosted other legendaries, not nerfing these ones.
Why? Because it''ll be harder to beat your old DPS meters with worse items.

They're still BIS though...

[shaunika123]

About damn time.

Blizzard actually making some necessary changes finally.

yeah how dare a pure dps class not be mediocre for once

they didnt even nerf it cos sub is so op(it really isnt it's a top tier dps spec but arms for example easily outperforms them)
they nerfed it cos they were the only 2 sub leggos used, but didnt realize that's because the rest is literally garbage, since all of them give stupid shit like energy regen, and more generator damage to a spec that's like 65% made up of finisher dmg and only requires a finite amount of energy which is taken care of by other means.

Not sure what you mean by that, the spec has 50%+ Shadow Blades uptime right now?

they're nerfing cof also

[Deleted]

They should've boosted other legendaries, not nerfing these ones.
Why? Because it''ll be harder to beat your old DPS meters with worse items.

But overall it's a good change - the less we need specific legendaries to do anything in the raids the better.

u still will play with mantle, the nerf is just a nerf, because all other legendaries are still far behind mantle

[Eazy]

u still will play with mantle, the nerf is just a nerf, because all other legendaries are still far behind mantle

Exactly what I meant.

[Deleted]

It's not 'minor'. According to updated sims it's about a 5% nerf, which is insane if the goal was just to rebalance the legendaries. And still those 2 legendaries are the way to go, that's how great the (sub) legendary system works! So it's just a blatant class nerf since we were doing good for 4 weeks, which is too much. Otherwise they'd compensate for the loss in dps with actual class tuning.

[omeomorfismo]

when you go with double set and bracer+boots and so dont give a fuck

[Fleckens]

It's not 'minor'. According to updated sims it's about a 5% nerf, which is insane if the goal was just to rebalance the legendaries. And still those 2 legendaries are the way to go, that's how great the (sub) legendary system works! So it's just a blatant class nerf since we were doing good for 4 weeks, which is too much. Otherwise they'd compensate for the loss in dps with actual class tuning.

Rogues along with warriors were just far too good so it's no surprise that they nerfed you, however instead of just a flat nerf they did it by at the same time balancing the legendaries a bit better. Pretty nice way of doing it.

[Xelion]

Rogues along with warriors were just far too good so it's no surprise that they nerfed you, however instead of just a flat nerf they did it by at the same time balancing the legendaries a bit better. Pretty nice way of doing it.

You realize that there are rogue specs other than sub right? Did you think that Outlaw was in dire need of a nerf with their hugely overtuned damage? Rather than blizzard nerfing an overtuned spec and buffing undertuned specs to give some semblance of a choice for the players, we just end up with this shitshow where two specs get fucked because some monkey decided nerfing legendaries was the way to go. You should apply for a class design position with that kind of brilliant insight.

[Fleckens]

You realize that there are rogue specs other than sub right? Did you think that Outlaw was in dire need of a nerf with their hugely overtuned damage? Rather than blizzard nerfing an overtuned spec and buffing undertuned specs to give some semblance of a choice for the players, we just end up with this shitshow where two specs get fucked because some monkey decided nerfing legendaries was the way to go. You should apply for a class design position with that kind of brilliant insight.

Weren't the shoulders also best by a fair bit for outlaw? While it's possible outlaw may need some buffs it's never a bad thing to get legendaries closer to eachother.

[Deleted]

Rogues along with warriors were just far too good so it's no surprise that they nerfed you, however instead of just a flat nerf they did it by at the same time balancing the legendaries a bit better. Pretty nice way of doing it.

Far too good? I mean arms warrior were/are significantly ahead on ST(goroth and sisters for example)(https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2032 & https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2050)
Meanwhile, subt rogues/mm hunters/demo locks are top, but pretty close together.

But then there's the cleave/oae fights, subt still performing good but nowhwere near the absolute top
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2048 - inquisition
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2036 - harja
You can look up the rest if you like.

I get wanting to bring the leggo's closer together, but the nerf of 5% that comes with it is kinda uncalled for. Escpecially when locks (who reigned for the entirety of NH), druids and mm hunters are not being touched.