Possible future hero classes.

[roahn the warlock]

BM has 2 pets out all the time. In just 850 gear, my alt hunter has a 10s CD on dire beast (up for 8 seconds) which means that for 80% of a fight, I am guaranteed to have 3 pets out. Dire beast CD has a 20% chance to be reset anytime a BM hunter crits with an auto-shot. In high end gear you are probably looking at 4-6 pets out for the majority of a fight.

And frankly I think even that is a bit stupid. The back of the boss is just a giant blob of pets. Really unappealing.

[Ielenia]

There's no problem with that. The problem is two Necromancer classes summoning undead minions and spreading plagues, especially after Blizzard has said that the Necromancer was used to create the Death Knight.

Let's repeat that, shall we? "The problem is two Light classes healing people and creating shields" So there we go, we have conflict between paladins and priests.

(P.S.: Necromancers don't have to spread diseases. For one who loves to use other games as examples, why don't you look at Diablo 2 necro and just have him use poison?)

[Darktbs]

Yeah, like I said, its about thematic similarity, not mechanical similarity.

Sorry, but you wasted your time with that list.

Do they bring something Unique to the table mechanic and thematic wise?Keep in mind if they share anything with other classes the class cannot be made regardless if that was already done before.

Honestly, no one can be this clueless.I give up

[Teriz]

Let's repeat that, shall we? "The problem is two Light classes healing people and creating shields" So there we go, we have conflict between paladins and priests.

Again, we have two classes sharing the Holy school of magic. That's not a problem, since thematically Paladins and Priests are different.

Just like its no problem that DKs and Warlocks share the Shadow school of magic.

The problem comes in when the main theme of the class (summoning demons or summoning undead minions) is shared by multiple classes. Blizzard tends to dislike that. You're never going to see another class summon demons, just like you're never going to see another class summon undead minions.

(P.S.: Necromancers don't have to spread diseases. For one who loves to use other games as examples, why don't you look at Diablo 2 necro and just have him use poison?)

The WC3 Necromancer is a better example, since its based in the same universe as Warcraft;

http://classic.battle.net/war3/undea...romancer.shtml

Death Knights got 2/3 of those abilities. Warlocks got Cripple.

[Hitei]

And frankly I think even that is a bit stupid. The back of the boss is just a giant blob of pets. Really unappealing.

I also think it looks a bit silly, and it's somewhat annoying from a targeting perspective.

The Necromancer described here though, doesn't have a swarm of undead for any spec.

Necromancer

[Directionalk9]

Thematic similarity, not mechanical similarity....rich. priest and paladins are thematically similar, except one priest spec.

Necromancer in WoW, don't let it touch disease and plague abilities, lets keep that all about DK.

Let's deviate a bit from the very typical necromancer, maybe what I am proposing is more like a shadowmancer, I'm not too familiar with other IPs, but still keep the theme undead or dark magic. let's link the class more to the shadowlands, which has ties to Helya and is talked about in chronicle vol 1. I know it doesn't tie back to WC3 but that is a limited way of utilizing creativity and imagination, not to mention so far nothing has broken actual in game lore.

Spec 1 - When you get that feeling, you get Necrotic Healing ( no idea what to name the spec) A presumed lore for the spec. As scholar of necro-magic and researcher of the Shadowlands you've learned many spells and rituals to take the energies of the Fallen denizens of that realm to mend the flesh, cure sickness and reset the bones of your allies in combat.

OR

We could go down the route of blood magic, a lot of siphoning and transfusing blood from you and enemies into allies, and just some standard Heres health for x mana, but blood magic theme.

So far that theme is supported in lore and doesn't tread on any other specs.

Spec 2 Possession

this is a lot more about ghosts as a sub-theme, and not as pets that you have control of like DK, locks, or hunters.
Maybe you get a ghost buddy, that follows you, no health bar or abilities it just does passive melee shadow damage to your target Or maybe its like shadow fiend pops up for a bit then goes the fuck away.
you get an ability that is possession, lasts for x amount of seconds, you click it, your body disappears and you are inside your target, your action bar changes like when a rogue stealth and you have set of abilities you can only use then. spells that damage the target, maybe a debuff or buff. then when you come out of the body you take a bit of damage or something to help balance out the fact that for 10ish seconds you were un-attack-able, maybe exhausted your stats are lowered by 3% for 5 seconds

Spec 3 I just can't waaaaaiiit to be lich.
It all about having a rotation that build up a resource that transforms you into a lich for a time. kinda like ascendance, but you have to build up to it first. Once you a lich like a few other specs in game you have increased stats making all your spells a hit a bit harder and now you have access to some spells powerful spells. Like say gateway to the SHadowlands. its an AoE a big marrowgar mother fucker comes out and cleaves the targets in the target location. and goes back and the gateway closes. see how that uses the undead minion but not at all like DK, only in the form of a spell animation. can probably do that a few more times. here and there too. a cc ability could be 6 feet under, large skeletal hands pull the target underground for x seconds, just like other snares, but visually different like other snares and invokes that necromancer theme, oooo spoooky.

also maybe necromancer have a phylactery, and another class has shamans reincarnation, similar to how multiple classes have a brez.

I can just about imagine all of the Teriz hate. I don't think this steps on other abilities more than any other ability from other classes. shares a theme but for fucks sake we all know that isn't a deal breaker for Blizzard, not in the slightest. Not to mention when Teriz does tear this apart I'll let him, I'll snicker because I could easily do that to the Tinker, but I don't wanna because I'd rather play a tinker than this BS i just made up.

Sorry Hitei, you posted your Necormancer link as I was messily typing this, I don't wanna step on your ideas.

"Again, we have two classes sharing the Holy school of magic. That's not a problem, since thematically Paladins and Priests are different." - Teriz

WRONG, thematically, holy magic is what makes them the same, mechanically they are different.

[Teriz]

Thematic similarity, not mechanical similarity....rich. priest and paladins are thematically similar, except one priest spec.

No they're not. Priests are a balance of Shadow and Holy magic. Paladins are pure Holy magic. Paladin DPS is holy, Priest DPS is Shadow. Priests use Holy for (mostly) restorative/protective purposes, Paladins use Holy for restorative/protective and destructive purposes.

Again, the Necromancer was used to create the Death Knight. Blizzard said this themselves.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, no one can be this clueless.I give up

I'm not clueless about an argument YOU made and attempted to attribute to me. I never said that mechanic similarity was a problem, *I* said that thematic similarity is a problem.

[Darktbs]

Blademaster

Like all classes, i have nothing agaisn't, but the Blademaster i have the issue that.

All classes when created have many spells that create a rotation and gameplay for them.

And i can see Arms warrios filling the Rotation just fine, not the entire fantasy of the classe of course, but the filler parts, Wind Walker could be added to talent Trees and it would be one step closer from a actual Blademaster, which is Mirror Force.But every time we see a Blademaster ingame, either they don't have Mirror force, or they use a temporary Mirror force that either just spins in the place or cuts something and disappears.

Its one of the classes that i have a issue, its not that it doesn't have lots of things unexplored, but how it would play.

Also, i understood the comparasion with Blood Dk but its theme is more about Deal damage and recover, the Blademaster to work should work more with Parry and Dodge.

[Ielenia]

Again, we have two classes sharing the Holy school of magic.

It's not just 'sharing the school of magic'. It's also having the same theme and the same function.

The problem comes in when the main theme of the class (summoning demons or summoning undead minions) is shared by multiple classes.

I hope you remember this little tidbit you just wrote when you decide to claim a tech class would have robot pets.

The WC3 Necromancer is a better example, since its based in the same universe as Warcraft;

Diablo and Warcraft are not from the same universe.

http://classic.battle.net/war3/undea...romancer.shtml

Death Knights got 2/3 of those abilities. Warlocks got Cripple.

I remember a similar argument... it went more or less like this:

http://classic.battle.net/war3/night...onhunter.shtml

Warlocks got Immolation and Metamorphosis, Rogues got Evasion and Priests got Mana Burn

Remind me which class concept that argument was against, and which class got introduced this expansion again, please?

[Hitei]

No they're not. Priests are a balance of Shadow and Holy magic. Paladins are pure Holy magic. Paladin DPS is holy, Priest DPS is Shadow. Priests use Holy for (mostly) restorative/protective purposes, Paladins use Holy for restorative/protective and destructive purposes.

Paladins use holy for Restorative and Protective and destructive purposes.
Priests use holy for Restorative and protective and destructive purposes, and can use Shadow for destructive purposes.

Would you like us to just pretend that Holy doesn't have smite, holy fire, halo and holy nova? And that it can't pull very high DPS in 5-mans?
Would you like us to pretend that Disc's core atonement gameplay isn't DPSing with Purge the Wicked, Penance and Smite?

Priests and Paladins are both classes whose core identity is using the light to both heal allies and destroy your enemies. The difference between a holy paladin and a holy priest is that one wears plate armor and wades into battle. The difference between a Disc priest and a ret paladin is that the ret wades into battle to hit enemies with the light, and the disc priest heals allies while hitting enemies with the light from afar.

I'm not clueless about an argument YOU made and attempted to attribute to me. I never said that mechanic similarity was a problem. *I* said that thematic similarity is a problem.

Do warriors and priests play chords to form razor-like shards out of notes that strike enemies, or incapacitate enemies with laughter charms?

Warriors can incapacitate enemies by with Incapacitating Shout, and they can damage enemies by yelling at them via Dragon Roar. Priests can cause enemies to flee in terror via Psychic Scream.

I don't understand why you just outright lie about crap when it's all there in the thread.

[Teriz]

It's not just 'sharing the school of magic'. It's also having the same theme and the same function.

Except they don't. Priests use Shadow magic. Paladins don't.

I hope you remember this little tidbit you just wrote when you decide to claim a tech class would have robot pets.

I never advocated for a class to have robot pets. That's Hunter territory.

Diablo and Warcraft are not from the same universe.

Which is why I said Warcraft 3 Necromancer is the better example for WoW.

I remember a similar argument... it went more or less like this:

Remind me which class concept that argument was against, and which class got introduced this expansion again, please?

Remind me again what happened to Warlock metamorphosis, and let me know what existing classes are going to have to lose in order to bring a Necromancer into the game as a class.

- - - Updated - - -

Paladins use holy for Restorative and Protective and destructive purposes.
Priests use holy for Restorative and protective and destructive purposes, and can use Shadow for destructive purposes.

Would you like us to just pretend that Holy doesn't have smite, holy fire, halo and holy nova? And that it can't pull very high DPS in 5-mans?
Would you like us to pretend that Disc's core atonement gameplay isn't DPSing with Purge the Wicked, Penance and Smite?

Would you like us to pretend that Disc isn't a healing spec?
Would you like us to pretend that Shadow isn't the DPS spec?

Priests and Paladins are both classes whose core identity is using the light to both heal allies and destroy your enemies. The difference between a holy paladin and a holy priest is that one wears plate armor and wades into battle. The difference between a Disc priest and a ret paladin is that the ret wades into battle to hit enemies with the light, and the disc priest heals allies while hitting enemies with the light from afar.

Priests use Shadow to destroy their enemies. Paladins don't touch Shadow magic.

I don't understand why you just outright lie about crap when it's all there in the thread.

Those were examples of thematic similarity, i.e. Sonic abilities.

[Darktbs]

Spec 3 I just can't waaaaaiiit to be lich.
.

Damn the second spec sounds unbalanced as hell in PvP.

I see the Necromancer to the Dk just like the Priest is to the Paladin.

They have similarities, they often enough help each other but each have their own history and uniqueness.

Also, sick reference.

[Hitei]

Would you like us to pretend that Disc isn't a healing spec?
Would you like us to pretend that Shadow isn't the DPS spec?



Priests use Shadow to destroy their enemies. Paladins don't touch Shadow magic.

No. They don't.
When I quest on my priest as Disc, I kill enemies with penance, ptw, and smite. All of these are holy spells, none of them are shadow.
When I run dungeons and pop Power infusion (holy magic) and LIGHT'S Wrath, I out DPS "DPS" classes, without any shadow spells.

Those were examples of thematic similarity, i.e. Sonic abilities.

Roaring like a dragon and playing a musical instrument are not thematically similar.

"Blasting a target with a frigid wind" (Howling Blast) and blasting the target with a frigid wind (Cone of Cold) are thematically similar.
Holy Light and Flash of Light are thematically similar.
Burning Rush and Blazing Speed (now rolled into Cauterize) are thematically similar.
Fel Barrage and Channel Felfire are thematically similar.


A primal roar and playing a musical instrument are not.

[Leviatharan]

I'm still holding out for a Dragon-focused class, like the Dragonsworn.

There's a lot of options out there between summoning whelps and drakes; shapeshifting into dragonspawn and drakonids; taking on characteristics of dragons like scales, wings, breath or claws; or just generally using blessings from each of the Aspects. Mages and Druids have barely scratched the surface in terms of draconic abilities.
Plus, most of the classes have at least one spec themed towards a particular enemy type; Death Knights with Undead, Priests with Aberrations, Demon Hunters and Warlocks with Demons, Shamans with Elementals, Druids and Hunters with Beasts. That leaves Humanoids, Giants, Dragonkin, and Mechanicals virtually untapped (to which the first two are arguable and the last is at least covered by a profession).

Of the 9 new specs added to the game since launch, 4 of them (including Guardian) were tanks, only 1 was a healer, and we actually lost a ranged with Legion; there's room for basically anything that can heal and range at this point. There's nothing really set in stone about Dragonkin in terms of abilities or armor classes, only that they have boons from dragons; I could absolutely see one being a scalemail class, since we do still only have 2 mail classes. Different specs could be themed after different dragonflights.

Lorewise, the dragons always took in servants of other races to do their dirty work or protect their lairs and clutches (or as evidenced by the Dragonmaw of Outland and the Twilight's Hammer in Cataclysm, become drakonids), and as shown in Azsuna in Legion, the fall of Deathwing has sapped the dragons of much of their own strength and ability to defend themselves. They would fit as a hero class since they have to be specifically chosen and recruited by a Dragonflight, and could possibly even have a unique starting experience where they tend and ultimately defend a dragon sanctuary somewhere in the world.

[Directionalk9]

Damn the second spec sounds unbalanced as hell in PvP.

I see the Necromancer to the Dk just like the Priest is to the Paladin.

They have similarities, they often enough help each other but each have their own history and uniqueness.

Also, sick reference.

To be fair it's a barely a spec, more like proof of concept

[Teriz]

No. They don't.
When I quest on my priest as Disc, I kill enemies with penance, ptw, and smite. All of these are holy spells, none of them are shadow.

So you think 3 abilities (which are actually designed to heal your party) make Discipline into a DPS spec?

Seriously?

When I run dungeons and pop Power infusion (holy magic) and LIGHT'S Wrath, I out DPS "DPS" classes, without any shadow spells.

Of course you do.

Roaring like a dragon and playing a musical instrument are not thematically similar.

A primal roar and playing a musical instrument are not.

The musical instrument is the voice of the caster. Hence why some Bards use song and voice instead of violins and banjos.

[Hitei]

So you think 3 abilities (which are actually designed to heal your party) make Discipline into a DPS spec?

I think several (penance, smite, ptw, light's wrath, pw: solace) core abilities show in a painfully obvious way that priests are characters who use the light to heal, protect and harm their enemies.

Of course you do.

The musical instrument is the voice of the caster. Hence why some Bards use song and voice instead of violins and banjos.

Roaring like a dragon is not a song.

Teriz Logic in a nutshell:

Poster:"Teriz, there's no room for Tinkers because there are already classes that melee or cause fire damage"
Teriz:"No, there's plenty of room because the Tinkers don't do it directly, they use suits to fight in melee, and turrets to cause fire damage."

Teriz:"There's no room for bards, because there are already classes that cause sound-based damage"
Poster B:"No, there's plenty of room because the Bards don't do it directly, they use musical instruments to cause sound damage."
Teriz:"NO, THEY ARE THE SAME!"

[Teriz]

I think several (penance, smite, ptw, light's wrath, pw: solace) core abilities show in a painfully obvious way that priests are characters who use the light to heal, protect and harm their enemies.

Okay fine, but that doesn't make Paladins and Priests thematically the same, because Priests use Shadow magic, and Paladins don't.

Roaring like a dragon is not a song.

I said song AND voice. The voice is considered a musical instrument.

http://aliveeastbay.com/archives/the...st-instrument/

[Kagdar]

Okay fine, but that doesn't make Paladins and Priests thematically the same, because Priests use Shadow magic, and Paladins don't.



I said song AND voice. The voice is considered a musical instrument.

http://aliveeastbay.com/archives/the...st-instrument/

You really have to go and look up the Priest Lore Teriz the only Priests that are advocating about balance in light and shadow and the Forsaken priests from the Forgotten Shadow cult. They are the only ones. All the other priests in the game are technically pure holy priests and never will try and control the shadow.

You cannot explain stuff with gameplay reasons. Because gameplay reasons are only there to make the game easier to play and limit the diplication of files in the game.
Example : Tauren paladins vs all the other paladins. Gameplay wise they are both paladins with in game holy spells. Lore wise, Tauren paladins aren't even using the holy light, they are using sun light and are sunwalkers and not considered paladins.

[Hitei]

Okay fine, but that doesn't make Paladins and Priests thematically the same, because Priests use Shadow magic, and Paladins don't.

Holy priests do not use Shadow magic.
Discipline priests do not use Shadow magic, or use a very minor amount.

Shadow priest are Shadow priests (a scattered few, mostly forsaken but also some Dark Irons and Humans who focus entirely on shadow magic). The vast majority of priests in the lore, as notable figures, and among players, are not Shadow priests. Velen is not a shadow priest, he does not use shadow magic.. What is the difference between Prophet Velen and Yrel? Yrel chose to pick up a hammer and fight that way. What is the difference between High Inquisitor Whitemane and Alexandros Mograine? Mograine wears plate and uses the Ashbringer and Whitemane wears robes and uses raw destructive light magic.

Whitemane is not a shadow priest. She does not use any shadow magic, and her entire character is built around the destruction of undead.

I'm going to guess you haven't done the Paladin campaign, because there is literally a priest who helps you out and then decides she'd be able to do more by joining the Silver Hand and becomes a Paladin simply by reciting the oath and switching over from her robes and bow to a set of plate armor and a warhammer.

I said song AND voice. The voice is considered a musical instrument.

When it is used to sing or make music. Is Dragon Roar music? No.

A wine glass is a musical instrument when it is used as one. That doesn't mean drinking a potion out of a wine glass to heal yourself, and playing a lyre to heal yourself are the same thing.