Poland has destroyed it's Independent Judiciary.

[Arrashi]

As of right now according the polls they'd win the election.

They wouldn't. People are afraid to voice their opinion since many of PIS associated people are on very high positions in many work places. And voicing your opinion can cost you the job. And both their main reasons of election, money for families and debt repaing safety turned way diffrent than they promised in their campaign.

Thats on manifestations you see either very young people or those who already no longer work.

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It's rather terryfing to be honest. That meme with a dog in a burning house comes to mind, with a subtitle: "at least we have no immigrants".

And we can thank EU for giving kaczynski this argument. Nothing like providing people like him with fearmongering fuel.

[Arrashi]

Nah Turkey's changes were mild compared to this.

Do you really think that blessed lord kaczynski would be inferior to endrogan ?

[Arrashi]

I'm mostly dismayed that the Germans are focused on attacking Erdogan instead of your blessed lord

They are scared. I mean look at this:

Translation:
"Shut your traitorous faces you cunts. You destroyed him, you murdered him".
Guy is having mental breakdown every 15 minutes.

[Jastall]

This slow but steadying eroding of democracy in countries that used to have them is scary. Ukraine, Turkey, Venezuela (well less of an example but still), now Poland.

I'm not one for hasty intervention, but is there anything the EU can do to discourage such an act? Destroying the independence of the judiciary is definitely one of the first steps towards a dictatorship. It should never be allowed to pass unopposed.

[Arrashi]

This slow but steadying eroding of democracy in countries that used to have them is scary. Ukraine, Turkey, Venezuela (well less of an example but still), now Poland.

I'm not one for hasty intervention, but is there anything the EU can do to discourage such an act? Destroying the independence of the judiciary is definitely one of the first steps towards a dictatorship. It should never be allowed to pass unopposed.

Cut dotations. Make it fast, painful and very obvious. Be as loud as you can be about it. Cutting money is what will hurt PiS electorate the most, and will turn massive part of it against them.

[Acidbaron]

Cut dotations. Make it fast, painful and very obvious. Be as loud as you can be about it. Cutting money is what will hurt PiS electorate the most, and will turn massive part of it against them.

Don't let any polish person who works in Europe work be allowed to work there anymore would send a far more stronger signal and would also end that political party in a very short time.

Since a lot of people depend on that source of income. Perhaps even just the notion of that their income would disappear as Poland would no longer have access to the EU if this continued on this path forward would be enough.

I don't see how cutting dotations that go mostly to the government for them to hand out force them into a specific direction since they would simply spin it.

[Arrashi]

Don't let any polish person who works in Europe work be allowed to work there anymore would send a far more stronger signal and would also end that political party in a very short time.

Since a lot of people depend on that source of income. Perhaps even just the notion of that their income would disappear as Poland would no longer have access to the EU if this continued on this path forward would be enough.

I don't see how cutting dotations that go mostly to the government for them to hand out force them into a specific direction since they would simply spin it.

Donations mostly go to polish farmers. And many of them are straight up dependant on them. And small villages are core of PiS electorate.

Your idea ironically strikes mostly at people who are already against PiS and who in many cases are already protesting.

[Kafyr]

Yeah, far-right party wants to institute authoritarianism and tyranny, colour me shocked.

It's far right now to get rid of policy that lets communist judges elect themselves and other like minded individuals into power? Poland followed America in letting elected inividuals elect judges. How is that authoritarian? Explain how this isn't democratic plz.

[Gref]

What a coincidence that the party has "justice" in its name... Just like Erdogans "Justice and Development Party". Hmm... HL3 confirmed?

[Wyrt]

Donations mostly go to polish farmers. And many of them are straight up dependant on them. And small villages are core of PiS electorate.

Your idea ironically strikes mostly at people who are already against PiS and who in many cases are already protesting.

What's with rural people and far right authoritarianism?

[Kafyr]

What a coincidence that the party has "justice" in its name... Just like Erdogans "Justice and Development Party". Hmm... HL3 confirmed?

So getting rid of the parties that allowed unwarranted searchs into peoples house so they could execute them like Nazi's is bad.

Getting rid of judges that engaged in this type of conduct, then elected other judges who have these same views, and by getting rid of them for democratically elected judges is a bad thing because?

I'm confused, where did I go wrong on this?

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What's with rural people and far right authoritarianism?

Whats with free rights and democracy?

[PosPosPos]

It's far right now to get rid of policy that lets communist judges elect themselves and other like minded individuals into power? Poland followed America in letting elected inividuals elect judges. How is that authoritarian? Explain how this isn't democratic plz.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but "communist" doesn't stand for "anyone who doesn't happen to subscribe to extremist far right wing ideology".

What's with rural people and far right authoritarianism?

Less access to higher education = more easily swayed by emotionally loaded propaganda. There's a good reason why kneejerk reactions can be described as "grab your pitchforks", an item that's traditionally associated with rural people.

[Crispin]

So the President used his veto on this, interesting since he was from the same party.

[Arrashi]

What exactly do you want the Eu to do?

Really all the EU can do is warn the government.

"Warning the government" is what resulted in turkey, hungary, and brexit. All of them massive successes of EU. And most of PiS politicians don't even speak english to understand any of that warnings.
EU needs to finally understand that its much better to prevent than cure.

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So the President used his veto on this, interesting since he was from the same party.

And most people question sincerity of that. PiS already pushed small steps, seemingly taking setbacks but still taking some ground. He vetos 2 out of 3 proposed changes. And chances are 2 vetod ones aren't gone for good, and they will wait till things calm down. Since we already have 8th day of streets being full of protesters.

[Acidbaron]

Less access to higher education = more easily swayed by emotionally loaded propaganda. There's a good reason why kneejerk reactions can be described as "grab your pitchforks", an item that's traditionally associated with rural people.

I don't think it's just that, education will play a part in giving people more perspective, how i see it and how this also plays out in let us say Turkey is that these people convince them that this is good for them based on all previous good things they did for them, how they gave them work, an income, more infrastructure, in some cases this literally means reliable water and electricity and they ask people to trust them based on those previous actions.

Since these people don't concern themselves with what's going on outside of their own direct community they generally just listen and accept that those who improved their situation only have their best interest at hand.

[PosPosPos]

I don't think it's just that, education will play a part in giving people more perspective, how i see it and how this also plays out in let us say Turkey is that these people convince them that this is good for them based on all previous good things they did for them, how they gave them work, an income, more infrastructure, in some cases this literally means reliable water and electricity and they ask people to trust them based on those previous actions.

Since these people don't concern themselves with what's going on outside of their own direct community they generally just listen and accept that those who improved their situation only have their best interest at hand.

My parents used to live in a rundown village before given better living environments, and they don't blindly trust and worship the government because of education compared to their siblings who rave and coo about the ruling party every chance they get

Sure, anecdotes and all, but you will find that bribery makes less zealots out of the educated than the uneducated.

[Ripster42]

Sounds like this legislation was vetoed by prez duda.

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So the President used his veto on this, interesting since he was from the same party.

Apparently beaten to the punch.

He left his party to rule as an independent while president. Don't know if that's just traditional in poland. But ya, I'm not sure I'd want to be the guy who signed shit like that into law.

[Arrashi]

Current state of PiS politicians - dazed, reeling about to break. Its just wonderful to watch in TV.

[Crispin]

It's funny that the party "Pis" literally means Piss in danish.

[Deleted]

What if it all was actually planned to get even more voters to the ruling party's side? After all, their current strenght comes from entire opposition weakness (as in few other countreis with similar problems recently). Now opposition's voters will see Presidend as 'their' saviour, despite President being still aligned with ruling party, then jsut apply some magic and PR and boom! You got even more voters and winning majority that can 100% legally change constitution and no EU nor any other outside powers can accuse you about it being illegal after all that rhetoric that is going on right now about illegitimacy and whatnot.