Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Tartys]

If Azshara does something, it'll be on a grand scale, not just Stormwind and Orgrimmar. I personally hope she destroys those two cities so that we can finally feel a sense of loss.

You know that cant be happen... players are still in mourning for Cataclysm...

about Azshara, I dont understand a thing: what would be the advantage for Her if Azeroth was transformed into the Black Empire? She is one who wants to lead, not to be same sort of Nara's General.

[Hitei]

This is the reason why Jaina is the perfect fit to become the next Betrayer. I really don't think there is any hope for her, it's too late to safe her.

Jaina has literally not done anything wrong.

And I don't mean that in the memetic, tongue-in-cheek sense, I mean that she has actually not done or suggested anything unusual or out of bounds. Her view is perfectly logical and it's odd that so many people (in and out of lore) are opposed to it. It's like people forget just how many times the Horde have screwed over the Alliance, or both the Alliance and themselves.

Jaina's reaction is the realistic one, not "Hey I know these guys have stabbed us in the back a bunch of times, but why don't we give them another chance?" or "Hey I know that this faction continuously kills and inflicts suffering upon our people and we currently have them on their knees, but why don't we just leave and not ask for any sort of reparations."

I will never get the whole she's-crazy-and-should-be-boss-a-boss nonsense.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

TEAM "SURPRISE ME, BLIZZARD!"

Maybe you are right and is something related to Ion words: "dragons are going to be very important."

Time for someone to photoshop a few signatures, or is it too early?

The infinite dragonflight for the first time playing the vital role as the support villain to the main threat.

[Nyel]

Jaina has literally not done anything wrong.

And I don't mean that in the memetic, tongue-in-cheek sense, I mean that she has actually not done or suggested anything unusual or out of bounds. Her view is perfectly logical and it's odd that so many people (in and out of lore) are opposed to it. It's like people forget just how many times the Horde have screwed over the Alliance, or both the Alliance and themselves.

Jaina's reaction is the realistic one, not "Hey I know these guys have stabbed us in the back a bunch of times, but why don't we give them another chance?" or "Hey I know that this faction continuously kills and inflicts suffering upon our people and we currently have them on their knees, but why don't we just leave and not ask for any sort of reparations."

I will never get the whole she's-crazy-and-should-be-boss-a-boss nonsense.

I know. But she's exactly the type of human to develop some kind of psychosis or paranoia. The paranoia is already pretty pronounced and N'zoth could easily influence her by just feeding her paranoia.

[dev'olution]

This is the reason why Jaina is the perfect fit to become the next Betrayer. I really don't think there is any hope for her, it's too late to safe her. Now I just hope Blizzard gives her an epic story.

Well y'know what they say, no blonde like a crazy (sorta) blonde..

[Nyel]

It wouldn't be hard to create a story in which these weaknesses are exploited by N'zoth without her becoming a boss. She could get taken advantage of and get knocked down a peg because of it, coming out of it a more developed character.

Well, no, I don't think so. After all her ups and downs her story needs to and with a tragedy and not with some kind of purification and recreation (unless she sacrifices herself to safe others - but she needs to die, one way or another). I see Jaina as some kind of Garrosh 2.0, her archnemesis - the question is just if she gets redeemed in her last breath or if she dies the same death as a villain like Garrosh.

[Deleted]

They've never really been associated with that though, and Kraken in WoW would definitely be Ozumat who got his ass kicked by Neptulon in Legion's beta though it was removed and replaced by another quest.

http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screen...mal/640266.jpg

Those are most definitely tendrils, I don't get how people see those as waves, zoom in and there's yet another pair of thicker ones that look exactly like the ones we've seen in N'zoth's Hearthstone art.

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I do disagree with you on the part where you say old gods operate through subtlety, only phase one is ever subtle. That's when they slowly take control of the armies (Mantid, Qiraji, Ulduar)

But then, when it reaches phase 2, it's full on war as we've seen. And we never get to see phase 1 because it usually happens before the player character arrives for gameplay purposes.


Though I do too think that Azshara will be the one attacking. She'll probably destroy Azeroth's coastal zones or remake them (imagine a green Westfall).
It's about time they do something with it, we know they want level scaling applied to the old worlds, this is the only chance they have as we're going to space after this.


If Azshara does something, it'll be on a grand scale, not just Stormwind and Orgrimmar. I personally hope she destroys those two cities so that we can finally feel a sense of loss.

I can totally see the second part of your comment happening. Azshara will do the attacking, not Kul'tiras. But that also leads into what I have to say about the first part. I still don't think Kul'tiras will be corrupted at all. At least not judging from the set. As far as we can grasp (from the tagging), it's a questing set related to Kul'Tiras. Not necessarily (but still possible) something that all of a sudden every Tirasian on Azeroth wears because they've been brainwashed or something.

Questing sets embrace the general theme of what's going on - Sea, Islands, N'zoth, Naga. It's all represented on that set - it looks like a cultist's garb, because that's the look that would fit an expansion-themed questing set for cloth wearers in that specific setting.

Just like WoD Questing Gear was savage (LUL), ragged and rough. Just like Legion's questing greens were alternating between the various looks represented in zones (Plate being themed around Fel Guard, Leather being themed after Stormheim, a Cloth set that looked elfish, while another had a horned hood, akin to Inquisitors - We could've gotten Azerothian zealots in league with the legion from a couple of those sets, yet it didn't happen and some, like the leather version, weren't THAT legion themed at all, we really can only assume that this one set means Kul'Tiras is under Tentacle-rule - the plate, leather or mail sets could completely debunk that theory - or it can still hold true afterwards).

[DelusionalBear]

Jaina has literally not done anything wrong.

And I don't mean that in the memetic, tongue-in-cheek sense, I mean that she has actually not done or suggested anything unusual or out of bounds. Her view is perfectly logical and it's odd that so many people (in and out of lore) are opposed to it.

its because their views and opinions are not dictated by logic or even common sense, but rather derived from Blizzard's necessity to cut the costs and not develop another huge capital city, just so Alliance - Horde relationship could look logical. Instead they just give Dalaran to the Horde as well and paint Jaina as immature bitch who ragequits over politics.

edit: this is pretty much cornerstone of Blizzard's storytelling. They build plot around features they want or can't have in the game, not the other way around.

[TriHard]

You know that cant be happen... players are still in mourning for Cataclysm...

about Azshara, I dont understand a thing: what would be the advantage for Her if Azeroth was transformed into the Black Empire? She is one who wants to lead, not to be same sort of Nara's General.

Azshara is jealous by nature, anything she can't get her hands on will be destroyed. That's the kind of person that she is. But it's only N'zoth left on Azeroth as far as we know, the god of the depths. So she would probably want to drown the entire world to create her new kingdom.

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I can totally see the second part of your comment happening. Azshara will do the attacking, not Kul'tiras. But that also leads into what I have to say about the first part. I still don't think Kul'tiras will be corrupted at all. At least not judging from the set. As far as we can grasp (from the tagging), it's a questing set related to Kul'Tiras. Not necessarily (but still possible) something that all of a sudden every Tirasian on Azeroth wears because they've been brainwashed or something.

Yeah, I've said all along that the clothes we saw are either from Kul Tiras itself and they describe what happened there OR they're just quest rewards from the area itself.

Or they could be npc clothing for the pre-patch, npcs drift ashore with a map to Kul tiras and then we investigate.

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Jaina has literally not done anything wrong.

And I don't mean that in the memetic, tongue-in-cheek sense, I mean that she has actually not done or suggested anything unusual or out of bounds. Her view is perfectly logical and it's odd that so many people (in and out of lore) are opposed to it. It's like people forget just how many times the Horde have screwed over the Alliance, or both the Alliance and themselves.

I will never get the whole she's-crazy-and-should-be-boss-a-boss nonsense.

The horde has done nothing ever since Garrosh was the Warchief, they've not attacked the alliance at all nor did they betray them. At the broken shore, Sylvanas had to make sure her own people survived or there would be no more horde. That's not a betrayal.

In fact, the alliance are the only ones that've launched an attack on the opposite faction now with Genn firing at Sylvanas' fleet in Stormheim and then she had to defend herself against his assault at the val'kyr.


And Jaina is clearly not well anymore. She lost Arthas, Theramore and Varian. The only place of any meaning to her now is Kul Tiras which might or might not be under N'zoth's control at this point. And if she's there, then you bet your ass she's his pawn by now as she is not strong enough to resist him at this point.

That is why people (myself included) see that she could become a villain. They clearly want to finish the stories on Azeroth to move on to space content. That is why we got Xavius, Kil'jaeden, Avatar of Sargeras, Argus and Sargeras in one expansion.

8.0 will likely wrap up Jaina's story, N'zoth, Azshara, Neptulon and Zul, and if they revamp the world again they'll probably use the world we've built with the class campaigns to fill in the gaps. To me, it seems very obvious that they either want her to share the same fate as Arthas or just give her some screen time before everyone forgets her after 8.0

Jaina has ALWAYS been the sidekick. She's not a good character, she's always been overshadowed by the characters she's helped (Arthas, Varian, Thrall) and she became even more useless after Khadgar was introduced.

There's literally no use for her anymore so we might as well kill her or at least close her chapter.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Poor Alterac, no one gives a fuck about them at all, and no one ever will.

The zone should be revamped into a Forsaken zone with three conflicts occuring: a) a living Perenolde (represented by Gilneas), b) an undead Perenolde (represented by the Forsaken), and an undead Perenolde (who's the original king).

[vertigo12]

Forumers are discussing about the upcoming expac. I'd like to change gears and discuss how it would end up. JAINA will be the 3rd Jailor of Abyssal Maw, throne of Tides and the Drowned, Denizens of the Depths.

Bolvar Fordragon the Lich King, Jailor of the Damned at Icecrown Citadel, The Frozen Throne


Illidan Stormrage, the Lord of Outland, Master of the Illidari, Jailor of the Burning Crusade at Argus, Seat of the Pantheon, Antorus, the Burning Throne

Jaina Proudmoore, Jailor of the Nagas and creatures of the Depth, Abyssal Maw, Throne of Tides and Maelstrom, Nazjatar

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Jaina only sees her and the Alliance's perspective so of course she's upset at the Horde. We players are fortunate to know the whole story. She's wrong in her perspective but it's understandable WHY she feels the way she does.

[Nyel]

I just don't see how she's irredeemable. If anything she's more Garrithos than Garrosh, but unlike both she cares about the other races of her faction.

Having ups and downs is what makes a character feel real. Development doesn't always need to end in the same "goes insane -> becomes a boss -> redeemed in final breath" route.

Well, Jaina's story is over. Somehow. Jaina is my favorite character in the Warcraft universe next to Medivh and Aegwynn but Blizzard's Jaina storytelling in the last years has been weak. I really want her to end on a high note and in a tragic way. She has no place in Warcraft anymore in my opinion.

From a storytelling perspective the best character development she could get would be Blizzard turning her into Garrosh 2.0. That would perfectly fit into the tragedy she's been in since MoP.

Garrosh:

- Betrayed by the ones he "loved"
- Disappointed by the Horde
- Slowly turns into an angry, furious, vindictive, paranoid and mad character (=tragic figure)
- Influenced by an Old God
- Turns against the Horde and his former allies
- Tragic ending without redemption

Jaina:

- Betrayed by the ones she "loved"
- Disappointed by the Alliance
- Slowly turns into an angry, furious, vindictive, paranoid and mad character (=tragic figure)

^ This is were Jaina is at the moment. And this is the path I want her to go:

- Influenced by an Old God
- Turns against the Alliance and her former allies
- Tragic ending with redemption; this is the crucial difference between Garrosh and Jaina - where Garrosh was egoistic, selfish and arrogant and found his end due to all of his flaws Jaina finally will be released from the Old God influence, "seeing clear", asking for forgiveness and rescuing the ones she turned against, dying to safe them

[DelusionalBear]

Jaina:

- Betrayed by the ones she "loved"
- Disappointed by the Alliance
- Slowly turns into an angry, furious, vindictive, paranoid and mad character (=tragic figure)

^ This is were Jaina is at the moment.

Betrayed by who? Arthas? He didn't betray her specifically, he betrayed pretty much everyone and everything he was supposed to hold dear and holy.
It was Council of Six (Kirin Tor) decision to let Horde into Dalaran yet again, not the Alliance.
She isn't turning into anything, she just ragequitted. Most certainly not paranoid and/or mad. Nothing tragic about it.

And this is the path I want her to go:

- Influenced by an Old God
- Turns against the Alliance and her former allies
- Tragic ending with redemption; this is the crucial difference between Garrosh and Jaina - where Garrosh was egoistic, selfish and arrogant and found his end due to all of his flaws Jaina finally will be released from the Old God influence, "seeing clear", asking for forgiveness and rescuing the ones she turned against, dying to safe them

I sincerely hope none of this is going to happen. Keep it in you wet dreams. WoW lore is already cliché as it is for the most part.

[Zulkhan]

Influenced by an Old God

Garrosh was never truly influenced by Y'Shaarj. He may have been to the extent Ner'zhul did to Arthas but Arthas lost his soul at that point, Garrosh was still 100% himself. Maybe he went a bit bonkers when he absorbed the whole power of the heart but then went back kind to normal once the artifact was destroyed for good.

[Nyel]

Garrosh was never truly influenced by Y'Shaarj. He may have been to the extent Ner'zhul did to Arthas but Arthas lost his soul at that point, Garrosh was still 100% himself. Maybe he went a bit bonkers when he absorbed the whole power of the heart but then went back kind to normal once the artifact was destroyed for good.

Well, I don't agree on this. I see your point but we have not much proof for either my or your version. We don't know were Garrosh obsession came from and I don't really believe that it was just his "crazy" mind / character that made him the villain he became. Were Garrosh was brutal, violent, a fighter (Y'Shaarj being the strongest Old Gold fits Garrosh character) Jaina could be much more intriguing with intellect and wisdom as her strenght, not brute force, perfectly fitting N'zoth's scheming.

I think it's more than obvious that Jaina will be involved in the next expansion. The question is what she will be - a friend, an ally, a neutral force or a villain? I really don't see any chance that Jaina will be back for good. Too much happened. I just go the "next expansion will be MoP 2.0 route". I think it would perfectly fit into WoW right after finishing the Legion.

[In Ogres We Trust]

A mod should sticky this thread.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't a "reunion" between the Kul'tiran people and Jaina be awkward? I mean they must be pissed at her for not defending their King against the Horde in W3.
The only scenario I could come up with is Kul'tiras having a "old god cult problem" (Knowing Blizzard this would be surprising if they don't turn Kul'tiras into an innsmouth reference). Although they hate Jaina (well I'm just assuming here), they call for her help to get rid of the old god influence. Since she has nothing left but Kul'tiras, she ask the player to join her in her investigation there.

Maybe at the end of the zone (or the pre-expansion scenario) we will find out that the city already fell to the old god influence, and that the Kul'tiran people called Jaina only to get rid of her (either by killing her in our presence or imprisoning her) and ensure that she doesn't take part in stopping the old gods. We escape and the expansion could go on here.

I mean I don't know.

#TeamRevamp anyway

[Paula Deen]

Wouldn't a "reunion" between the Kul'tiran people and Jaina be awkward?

Yes which is exactly why the idea of her being the villain and not a protag along with Sylvanas and Genn is 10/10 hilarious.

[derpkitteh]

Yes which is exactly why the idea of her being the villain and not a protag along with Sylvanas and Genn is 10/10 hilarious.

unless of course n'zoth has taken full control of the populace and has them hide their allegiance and welcome her with open arms to slowly turn her against the alliance and everyone she knew there.