Europe to retaliate over US Sanctions....on Russia

[alexw]

http://www.politico.eu/article/bruss...sia-sanctions/



Of course can't have the EU be affected by Russian sanctions. Gotta buy that cheap Russian gas right Merkel?

Well what do you expect?

Trump has told the EU to go screw itself in so many ways over the last year and a half, that it has absolutely no good will left. It's much worse than the run up to the Iraq war even.

[Shalcker]

So? You plan accordingly and install enough plants to match the demand even in "bad" years. i haven't checked yet, but I don't expect these variances to be any higher than what, 5% in extreme cases? 10% at best? You also have to see that a low-sun year can (and probably will) be a high-wind year and such things. The mix makes it a fairly robust thing, and we will still have fossil plants for the forseeable future as well, usually with reserve capacity to kick in. I still can't see why this should be any sort of defeating problem.

I have seen some calculations on models, and you basically have to create 85% of total consumption as reserve capacity.

That will be sitting idle 97% of the time. But when it will be bad it will be really bad. There are dry spells in both wind and solar in Europe that cannot be compensated even by transferring energy from one part to another, and they are much higher then 10% (sometimes it can be as low as 1/3 of the peak)

Getting storage capacity would be fairly bad from economic perspective - it'll be battery that will be sitting at full charge 29 days out of 30 (with lots of generated energy simply being lost) and occasionally it will get completely drained. Not good for most current batteries.

Cheapest way for reserve capacity is gas generators as they can be started and stopped as needed easily unlike nuclear or coal, don't have high capital costs, and can be profitable working just a few days in a year.

...which brings us back to "EU energy security" that is threatened by new US sanctions. To support renewables Europe will need gas. Gas on demand and cheap. And that means Russia with pipelines, not LNG.

[Deleted]

So the EU is protecting its interests by not letting the US step all over it?
Are we supposed to be outraged because the EU is not letting foreigners threaten its Companies or Interests?

[Crispin]

Migrant crime on the rise, Poland in political row with Germany, USA is unhinged, Italy's economy going down further, etc.


The EU downfall is shaping up really well.

lol what the fuck, arent you tired of playing the same idiot violin year after year? Italy's Economy just got a better outlook, the Polish President used his veto, migrant crime on the rise? sorry but some of thoose "migrants" commiting crime is from your country and your neighbour. FYI our nationalist politicians would prefere to put you and your country on the same list as countries like afghanistan etc. and hope that you'll stay the fuck out.

But keep crying about what you wish would happen to improve your sorry ass life, I'm sure you're too lazy to even migrate to a wealthy country and commit crimes like your countrymen.

[Noradin]

The unnecesary Nuclear shutdowns were instituted after keen physicist Angela Merkel started worrying if a Tsunami in the Baltic could cause damage to a German reactor like in Fukushima.

And you show your true colours, its just about bashing politicans you do not like to you.
But congratulations, your imagination is extraordinary.

[Deleted]

And you show your true colours, its just about bashing politicans you do not like to you.
But congratulations, your imagination is extraordinary.

you do know i'm a conservative?
I'd vote for Merkel in a heartbeat.

[Shalcker]

Since you're presenting actual numbers, I'm inclined to ask for a source. Not because I want to try to piss you off, but because I'm genuinely interested.

It's this post - it's in Russian but Google Translate is surprisingly legible.

For charts legend:
Ветер - Wind
Солнце - Solar
Потребление - Consumption
Газ - Gas
Зарядка - Charge (for accumulators)
Разрядка - Discharge (for accumulators)

[Toogoodman]

Sounds so easy when you say it. Where then do you propose we get it then (in the required quantities at a reasonable price)?

So, you would rather be at the mercy of a tyrant? sounds logical to me, I always thought thy holier than thou Europeans would want to diversify into as much renewable energy? and lower carbon emissions? I mean the US gets bagged on here for this, but were making massive headway into the renewable space. The EU should make a stand against Russia, and dive headfirst into renewable and nuclear energy to drive real change.

[Grapemask]

Well, at least Trump will have a good excuse when he decides to veto sanctions.

[Shalcker]

But what I'm not getting is what those that oppose renewables actually want long term to provide the "base" energy level? Really nuclear?? As much as I like it as a filler for the mean time, I absolutely do NOT see us enriching Earth's crust with the radiating waste of centuries of ever increasing energy demand. It's only "not too much of an issue" right now (although it's problematic enough as it is) because it's still relatively little compared to what is to come if any prognostics about world-wide consumption say is even half-true.

Well, Russian solution to this is closed fuel cycle rather then banning nuclear. We're furthest ahead in that and our program is projected to get results somewhere around 2050.

[Xarkan]

So, you would rather be at the mercy of a tyrant? sounds logical to me, I always thought thy holier than thou Europeans would want to diversify into as much renewable energy? and lower carbon emissions? I mean the US gets bagged on here for this, but were making massive headway into the renewable space. The EU should make a stand against Russia, and dive headfirst into renewable and nuclear energy to drive real change.

It does not matter who the only source is if it is an only source because that source will have too much power over you

[The Emperor]

Their own best interests?

America is imposing sanctions on Russia because they annexed Crimea, upended the entire post World War 2 order in Europe and even now stand with tens of thousands of troops that threaten Ukraine.

You know what's in Europe's best interest? To NOT be reliant on gas imports from Russia.

So much b/s and you are surprised EU wouldn't stand for it especially when it comes to their energy supplies. Overpriced liquefied gas from the US is only an option for numbskull russophobic lemmings in Polish government and that of the Baltic States.

Besides, those few pragmatics at EU do not exactly buy into "Russia hacked our election" story either and consider sanctions unjustified and potentially undermining Minsk Accords.

I don't know when will you learn that Crimeans wanted and still want to be part of Russia. Since you're never going to visit Crimea to at least to attempt to learn the truth, I ll just iignore this lies about annexation. Simple fact -- no guerilla warfare in Crimea, no society standing up to "oppressor", overwhelming majority supports Russian Government.

But no, you think it's your "duty" to regale us with your pseudo knowledge gained from MSM lies and you even use it as an argument, amusing.

[Deleted]

As i wrote in another thread, the best option would have been to be able to continue to buy russian gas, and use it as a trigger against putins warmongering.

[Shalcker]

As i wrote in another thread, the best option would have been to be able to continue to buy russian gas, and use it as a trigger against putins warmongering.

Trigger of what exactly?

[Toogoodman]

It does not matter who the only source is if it is an only source because that source will have too much power over you

The US is a global exporter, and there are many other OPEC countries if need be, the EU is just bickering because they wan the slightly cheaper oil, whilst risking their won "values".

[Deleted]

Trigger of what exactly?

To ensure he wont extend his ukraine war into the baltic states or to poland.

And i talk about his hybrid war efforts.

[Shalcker]

To ensure he wont extend his ukraine war into the baltic states or to poland.

Umm, and how exactly you do that by giving him money?

And i talk about his hybrid war efforts.

You're going to do your own hybrid war with gas bought from Russia? I'm kind of missing of what exactly you're proposing here.

[Deleted]

Umm, and how exactly you do that by giving him money?

It is about slowly lowering that income if he should ever plan to extend his warfare. Means, to use it as pressure.

If we just cut it off, we have no measurements left to threaten putin anymore. And economic sanctions actually are the only thing that works.

Lets half the gas support from russia. And tell him he will lose the rest if he dares to attack other european countries.

[judgementofantonidas]

http://www.politico.eu/article/bruss...sia-sanctions/



Of course can't have the EU be affected by Russian sanctions. Gotta buy that cheap Russian gas right Merkel?

Sactions on Russian steel is not a bad thing. If I ever have to weld on that shit again it will be too soon.

[Shalcker]

It is about slowly lowering that income if he should ever plan to extend his warfare. Means, to use it as pressure.

Umm, but that income had already rapidly shrunk when oil price dropped.

Plus now price isn't decided by "EU wants this price", but by market rates, as EU always wanted instead of Gazprom-preferred long-term contracts. And if you want EU to manipulate the markets... well, why have the market at all then?

If we just cut it off, we have no measurements left to threaten putin anymore. And economic sanctions actually are the only thing that works.

Or the only thing that is left.

...btw, you do know that Russia also has LNG plants? And due to global warming Northern Passage is actually open to pass those LNG supplies to China.

Lets half the gas support from russia. And tell him he will lose the rest if he dares to attack other european countries.

But US already threatens to break even theoretical leverage by sanctioning EU companies working with GazProm on North Stream II.