Confusion continues surrounding drunken consent

[Deleted]

You do realize that your first point makes it easy for people to rape drunk people right? "They consented officer, they're drunk so they can't NOT give consent"

I would consider it to be a rape only if he got her drunk with intention to have sex with her and she wouldn't agree with it otherwise.
If both of them get drunk and they have sex, I don't care, none of them can give a consent - but usually a man is jailed in that case, because libtards.
HOWEVER, she was fucking blacked out. How is that not a rape?

[MasterOfNone]

Im still confused on how this is confusing to this day. When you fuck someone thats clearly not conscious, it will be up to them if they feel they have been raped or not. You dont fuck people that cant do anything to participate, for or against sex. Wow that was easy?

agree. not sure why this is speculation at any rate. however, to me there is a huge difference between being passed out and finding a dude on top of you as opposed to having one beer, and then claiming rape because "i was drunk and didnt consent". this is a fine line argument. the question becomes where the line is drawn. unfortunately, there will more than likely be some knee jerk reaction that fucks it up either way.

[Tennis]

They were both drunk. It happens.

What needs to happen here is to not make this girl a victim because she isn't. If she's a victim I've been raped hundreds of times.
.

If it happens wouldn't we be hearing more about incidents like this?

[chrisberb]

I don't even accept the ethical standard that you can't consent while drunk, though there may also be a legal one. We hold people who are drinking accountable for basically every other decision they make with the exception of ones related to sexual contact.

Originally the argument wasn't even that someone was drunk, said yes, and then found out later they had sex they didn't want to have, it was that people were so drunk they weren't even awake enough to say anything and someone had sex with them. Those arguing against my point will claim that 99.9% of these cases are the latter but according to almost every anecdote they are the former, and they are trying to argue that the "saying yes while drunk" cases are in reality the "Passed out and completely unconscious" cases. Its a case of the most insanely moved goalposts.

Have you ever been "black-out drunk"? If you signed a contract agreeing to do 10,000 hours of community service while black out drunk, would you pick up the shovel the next morning? Or would you argue "You can't shove a contract in front of me while I'm drunk, I don't even remember signing that!"

[PassingBy]

Instead of sending a stupid chivalry text the dude should have just filed the rape charge against the girl.
Saying that he was the one who blacked out and then found himself having sex with her against his will.

I mean if a drunk person can't give consent - the guy can't do it either, right?

[Rennadrel]

Ugh, America. Let me break it down:

Most people pick eachother up in bars.
Bars serve alcohol.
People in bars tend to drink alcohol.
Therefor a pickup is usually either drunk or tipsy.
A drunk adult can still differentiate right from wrong and consent.

Tadaaa. Logic. Needless to say fucking unconscious people is a bit sketchy.
The article clearly states that she blacked out. She was conscious, she just cant remember it.

I think that one thing that gets ignored in America in particular, is the legal drinking age. By the time university students are generally old enough to drink legally at bars, they are already 21. Now, I don't know what the underage drinking problem is like in the USA, but in Canada it is not nearly as rampant among university and college kids because they are starting post secondary when they are around 18 years old and the drinking age is 18 or 19 depending on the province. You have two sides of this coin that can easily be debated. Most 19 year old's don't understand how to hold their liquor or drink excessively (this is a truth I can attest to as I did it on a few occasions and have seen a myriad of university students, in particular females (I used to live in a university town where the student population was about 3-1 female to male), who go to bars and drink excessively). Most people drinking under the age of 21 also don't understand how to moderate their drinking, regardless of gender but I do think the legal drinking age in America is too high, it just entices people to drink illegally as minors. What I'd do personally? Ban alcohol on campuses and bar anyone under the age of 21 from entering a bar. Takes potential or even fabricated rape culture on campuses off it and prevents people from drinking excessively in bars because they can't control themselves. It's up to bar owners to ensure that people aren't drinking excessively, but none of them are held accountable for that action because all they see is $$$$$ when the university students show up and are drinking on mommy and daddy's credit card. It's disgusting how little accountability is being held for both the businesses as well as students themselves.

[Typhoria]

I dunno. Maybe have a digital consent form and some sort of alcohol % blow thingy. That way they can warm up aswell.

Just video record the whole thing too. That way it can be undeniable!

[MasterOfNone]

I would consider it to be a rape only if he got her drunk with intention to have sex with her and she wouldn't agree with it otherwise.
If both of them get drunk and they have sex, I don't care, none of them can give a consent - but usually a man is jailed in that case, because libtards.
HOWEVER, she was fucking blacked out. How is that not a rape?

there is the possibility that she is lying. im not saying one way or the other, we dont exactly have 100% facts to go on

[derpkitteh]

Again the medical definition of black out, is also applied to loss of consciouness. Which again is what the article is clearly speaking about. Thats why the girl herself mentions WAKING UP.

if you're blacked out, still moving around but don't realize it, i would describe becoming aware as waking up too.

she could have also went to sleep while still in that blacked out state.

i don't see this as a rape at all. she was out of her head on alcohol, probably just a little more so than that guy. she gave him consent like 5 times. waking up the next day and regretting your actions is not rape.

[Dhrizzle]

Im still confused on how this is confusing to this day. When you fuck someone thats clearly not conscious, it will be up to them if they feel they have been raped or not. You dont fuck people that cant do anything to participate, for or against sex. Wow that was easy?

I think by "blackout" they're referring to a memory blackout, not falling unconscious, and whilst the article claims you can "just know" if someone is "too intoxicated" I don't think it's quite that clear cut.

It's a difficult area because some people drink specifically to lower their inhibitions so they can get laid, and other times whilst someone make a choice they regret it's still a choice they make and consent is given, even if they wish it wasn't. So then the question comes, how can you know if someone is happily pursuing drunken sex, is making a choice they'll eventually regret or is currently incapable of making a choice. The trouble with a strict legal ruling here is it boils down to declaring how much alcohol a woman is allowed to imbibe before she is legally stripped of the ability to give consent.

From the article above it certainly seems like two teenagers made a drunken mistake, the fact the "victim" had to ask if it was actually rape probably means she didn't feel violated, and I don't think it's right that outside parties persuaded her that it was in fact an assault. Then again the same story told differently could give an equally clear view that the woman was unfairly taken advantage of and the man was at fault, so I can't really judge the case.

[Shadowferal]

Unconscious? No touch.
Drunk? No touch.
Common sense for the win.

[Dhrizzle]

It said it was her "friend" who was walking her to a car. Why is he all of a sudden doing something else to her?

Because men and women often find each other attractive and alcohol can lower inhibitions.

[A dot Ham]

What if both people are drunk as is the most common case amoung teen hookups?

Lets not discriminate... this isn't just a teenage issue.

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My main problem with these stories is, if they were both really drunk, how can you trust that any of them have a truthful version of the facts?

The "victim" always has the most complete and accurate recollection of the facts... or did you not get the memo.

[Underverse]

If you have to ask yourself 'was it rape?', it probably wasn't rape.

[jackofwind]

4. She was blacked out, the boy is stupid and should be jailed. He could clearly fucking see that she's blacked out.

Blacked out =/= passed out. Blacking out just means your memory is fragmented the next day. You can still be totally coherent at the time.

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Have you ever been "black-out drunk"? If you signed a contract agreeing to do 10,000 hours of community service while black out drunk, would you pick up the shovel the next morning? Or would you argue "You can't shove a contract in front of me while I'm drunk, I don't even remember signing that!"

If you get toasted out of your mind and drop all your money on the down payment for a boat you're still obliged to honor that contract when you come back down from pluto. You think drunks have never woken up to learn they've gambled away their cars and houses without remembering it?

[Deleted]

Blacked out =/= passed out. Blacking out just means your memory is fragmented the next day. You can still be totally coherent at the time.

Yeah and she woke up from "losing memory"
Guy is a scum and should be held responsible. If the story if of course not a huge lie.

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there is the possibility that she is lying. im not saying one way or the other, we dont exactly have 100% facts to go on

Agree.

[Machismo]

They were both drunk. It happens.

What needs to happen here is to not make this girl a victim because she isn't. If she's a victim I've been raped hundreds of times.

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SHE WAS NOT UNCONSCIOUS.

Blacking out is NOT passing out. I've been completely mobile and left bars with people while blacked out and then had sex. Stop trying to trick people into thinking black out=passed out. It doesn't. Black out you can speak relatively fine and engage.

If what you are saying is true, then you have a serious drinking problem. You may want to address the issue.

[jackofwind]

Yeah and she woke up from "losing memory"
Guy is a scum and should be held responsible. If the story if of course not a huge lie.

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Agree.

"Waking up", "coming to", "the last thing I remember", etc etc. They were both drunk - who's to say that her turn of phrase is transparently indicative of what she's trying to describe? The fact is there's no way to know, and no reason to speculate one way or the other.

Is English your first language? Because if not I wouldn't really expect you to understand the subtle nuances of these colloquialisms.

[Deleted]

"Waking up", "coming to", "the last thing I remember", etc etc. They were both drunk - who's to say that her turn of phrase is transparently indicative of what she's trying to describe? The fact is there's no way to know, and no reason to speculate one way or the other.

Is English your first language? Because if not I wouldn't really expect you to understand the subtle nuances of these colloquialisms.

No reason to speculate, yet you too claim that your version is the correct one. Passed out is the most probable.

[Underverse]

No reason to speculate, yet you too claim that your version is the correct one. Passed out is the most probable.

Is it? She may only remember everything after a certain point. That doesn't mean she was sleeping or passed out before that. Al it means is that she was too drunk to form memories at the time. And 'I'm not really sure' isn't enough evidence to convict.