New Alliance race : void High elves ? (some spoilers)

[Deleted]

I'm expecting sub-races to be a thing next expansion, there's been hints for quite some time that Blizzard will give us major customization options soon, and they knw people want sub-races. And I predict high elves will be in the Alliance. And the Horde will get nightborne, created for that trade-off, and maybe even human-looking Forsaken. And, after the initial outcry, everyone will settle down and we will never have threads like this again (we will get plenty of "ogres in the Horde please", thought).

It's definitely a possibility, especially seeng the whole development with the Nightborne. Blizzard is going at great lengths to seed them as a potential sub-race for the Blood Elves, and they are not doing such things for no reason. Can't say I like this possibility, while I do not have a problem with the High Elves still existing in some (read limited) capacity, the Kaldorei desperately need more development, especially as an Alliance race, and I am afraid that having playable High Elves, even as a sub-race, will only jeopardize that. But since I have no need to be a jerk over this, if this happens, well good for you people who want to play them.

like they can resurrect Garrosh to blow up the alliance with mana bombs, then the only playable faction will horde and the scourge, cause everyone died and thrall become the new lichking?

"Blizzard can do whatever they want" is such a meaningless argument. Yes, it's their game. Technically they can retcon Sargeras into a pink rabbit that moves like the Tasmanian Devil from Looney Tunes while singing Macarena. Doesn't mean they'll do it.

We heard the exact same arguments when people were dismissive of the Warlords of Draenor leaks. Tell me Messrs. "We get extremely defensive the moment any possibility of the High Elves being playable gets mentioned", how did that turn out?

[Syegfryed]

We heard the exact same arguments when people were dismissive of the Warlords of Draenor leaks. Tell me Messrs. "We get extremely defensive the moment any possibility of the High Elves being playable gets mentioned", how did that turn out?

i mean since vanilla people sayr that, its not even to be defensive anymore is just funny

[DeicideUH]

Besides, there's vocal, and there's the part where Blood Elves in the Horde fixed faction population imbalance. Subset of Alliance players is also vocal about losing zones in Cata (and how Blizzard hates them and secretely fucks them in their sleep). But that fixed zone imbalance, so as vocal as they may be, it's not going to be changed back (even ignoring Blizzard's unwillingness to redo the old world again).

Off-topic, but Alliance was pissed off during Cataclysm because it lost a lot and gained nothing. Playing as Alliance was borderline depressing, as many zones ended in failure or defeat. Faction war can be done right if both factions feel like they lost something but won something, but Alliance was not like that.

Besides losing Southshore and the elven presence in Azshara because Horde needed more zones to level up, we also end up losing in Gilneas, Stonetalon, Barrens (pretty depressing, with the misunderstood good-willed commander being brutally murdered while his warmongering scumbag underlings take his place) and Western Plaguelands. We also end up in a stalemate in Hinterlands and are being perpetually attacked in Blasted Lands. The only Alliance victory in Cataclysm was in Swamp of Sorrows, and even then the Horde was hurt but not expelled or conquered. Later on, we ended up losing Theramore as well. Plus, zones like Arathi or Dustwallow, which had importance to Alliance, ended up having only little updates. Cataclysm was a pretty bad time to be Alliance (and having to deal with Thrall being our hero and savior only made it feel worse).

Ironically, now it feels like the Horde is the one to be ignored. I will understand if the Horde get a lot of attention next expansion. They need to push the new orc and trolls leaders, make Baine do something. Give the Horde some reason to cheer up.

[Flurryfang]

Plz just stop with the elves! We already have 1 elf race on each faction, so why would we need more? O.o

None of the current non-playable elves are unique enough to really stand out from the other 2 playable elves. They would bring little new to the table when it comes to models, moves or themes. I would rather have any other race then some new elf.

[Deleted]

i mean since vanilla people sayr that, its not even to be defensive anymore is just funny

Look, I get some people find the notion absurd or impossible to happen. There's just no need to get so agressively defensive about it. I get this forum is not a place where one should expect a respectful discussion, but some topics cause really ridiculous reactions from certain segments of people.

[DeicideUH]

Plz just stop with the elves! We already have 1 elf race on each faction, so why would we need more? O.o

None of the current non-playable elves are unique enough to really stand out from the other 2 playable elves. They would bring little new to the table when it comes to models, moves or themes. I would rather have any other race then some new elf.

This is why most people who defend more elves want them as sub-races.

There will never be a "New Race: High elves" as a feature for any expansion. But having "New Customization Options" feature with a "Sub-races" sub-feature, in which we get high elves and nightborne among several other racial variations is very possible, even likely.

[Syegfryed]

Look, I get some people find the notion absurd or impossible to happen. There's just no need to get so agressively defensive about it. I get this forum is not a place where one should expect a respectful discussion, but some topics cause really ridiculous reactions from certain segments of people.

impossible maybe not, absurd yes

i would be fine with the exchange of races, or a third faction, but they are so possible as high elf playable

[Flurryfang]

This is why most people who defend more elves want them as sub-races.

There will never be a "New Race: High elves" as a feature for any expansion. But having "New Customization Options" feature with a "Sub-races" sub-feature, in which we get high elves and nightborne among several other racial variations is very possible, even likely.

Its just a huge thing to do for such little bonus. Adding sub-races will add nothing when it comes to gameplay or overall experience. Its just a little change in look, that would proberly clog up alot of work from Blizz.

[DeicideUH]

Its just a huge thing to do for such little bonus. Adding sub-races will add nothing when it comes to gameplay or overall experience. Its just a little change in look, that would proberly clog up alot of work from Blizz.

You underestimate how many people want new customization options and/or sub-races. It consumes a lot less resources then to add two new races, and has the potential to please most people, as everyone get something new, be it new hairstyles, new options such as tatoos or body types or alternative races.

The fact that Blizzard has acknowledge this more than once in interviews since WoD and that they recently said that "something very awesome" is coming in this regard make it very likely to happen.

[Friendlyimmolation]

people still think that replacing playable race with playable subrace removes any of the problems with their desire. They aren't getting the Blood elf model and they aren't going to waste time on altering a model either when they could easily create a new race instead of catering to the few who are unable to get over Burning Crusade.

[Mehrunes]

people still think that replacing playable race with playable subrace removes any of the problems with their desire. They aren't getting the Blood elf model and they aren't going to waste time on altering a model either when they could easily create a new race instead of catering to the few who are unable to get over Burning Crusade.

Plus sub-races as talked about by Blizzard would be aesthetic alternatives to existing races. High Elves being an alternative for any of the Alliance races flies out of a window. And an aesthetic alternative for Blood Elves being in another faction makes about as much sense as having Alliance Mag'har, Horde Wildhammers or Alliance Forsaken without jaws (with a fascinating lore of "can't agree to join the Forsaken without one, so the Alliance is the best alternative"). Besides, what would the Horde get in return? A kangaroo sub-race of Gnomes? Oh, well, I guess that's a possibility. After all, it's Blizzard's game and they can make anything happen.

[Aucald]

I don't think there's enough differentiation between High and Blood Elves for the High Elf "appearance " to be a valid choice for the proposed subrace system. Subrace choices need to carry the same kind of differentiation that Dark Iron Dwarves would have compared to Ironforge Dwarves, or Mechagnomes would have for regular Gnomes. Otherwise the main difference between Blood and High Elves would be as simple as an eye color slider from green to blue. Perhaps with the passage of time a different story could be told - if they never reconcile it's obvious that the High and Blood Elves (should they survive) would slowly become more and more different. But for now, that level differentiation is just not in evidence.

[Mehrunes]

We heard the exact same arguments when people were dismissive of the Warlords of Draenor leaks. Tell me Messrs. "We get extremely defensive the moment any possibility of the High Elves being playable gets mentioned", how did that turn out?

You heard tales of pink rabbit Sargeras during WoD? Besides, WoD sucked so hard they cut content left and right and rushed to the ending just to get over with it, so chances are they learned their lesson about doing things that make little sense. And the story they went with differed from the initial leaks to begin with. Besides, one was just pure lore and the other includes factors like faction balance or neutral races (which Blizzard is unwilling to do again). So top notch comparison.

Look, I get some people find the notion absurd or impossible to happen. There's just no need to get so agressively defensive about it. I get this forum is not a place where one should expect a respectful discussion, but some topics cause really ridiculous reactions from certain segments of people.

There's no need to constantly and persistently whine about it pretty much every day for over 12 years either. It's basically spam at this point. OK, Alliance players cannot deal with change. Happens to people. But why on earth can't you not deal with it in silence? Or at least create a support group for people suffering from High Elf withdrawal symptoms and don't deal with it in a private setting.

[DeicideUH]

Plus sub-races as talked about by Blizzard would be aesthetic alternatives to existing races. High Elves being an alternative for any of the Alliance races flies out of a window. And an aesthetic alternative for Blood Elves being in another faction makes about as much sense as having Alliance Mag'har, Horde Wildhammers or Alliance Forsaken without jaws. Besides, what would the Horde get in return? A kangaroo sub-race of Gnomes? Oh, well, I guess that's a possibility. After all, it's Blizzard's game and they can make anything happen.

Quoting Alliance mag'har, horde wildammers or Alliance Forsaken is idiotic because they do not exist in lore. High elves do.

And, about what Horde would get, Are you ignoring nightborne, which have been introduced just now, deeply developed and forming bonds with the Blood Elves, with a line of dialogue in 7.3 that trongly hints at them joining the Horde?

Or even, more unlikely but not impossible, human-looking Forsaken, like Nathanos, which could be explained by Sylvanas getting her hands on some artifact to empower the ritual (maybe even the broken lantern of Helya, or the vampiric artifacts from Helheim)?

Please, you are not even trying to be fair with your arguments.

I don't think there's enough differentiation between High and Blood Elves for the High Elf "appearance " to be a valid choice for the proposed subrace system. Subrace choices need to carry the same kind of differentiation that Dark Iron Dwarves would have compared to Ironforge Dwarves, or Mechagnomes would have for regular Gnomes. Otherwise the main difference between Blood and High Elves would be as simple as an eye color slider from green to blue. Perhaps with the passage of time a different story could be told - if they never reconcile it's obvious that the High and Blood Elves (should they survive) would slowly become more and more different. But for now, that level differentiation is just not in evidence.

We are talking high elves to the Alliance and nightborne to the Horde. So, while high elves are too much alike blood elves, they'd be a sub-race to the night elves and be different enough from the "parent" race.

I have a very strong feeling that the reason Blizzard implemented the orange color tag names for opposite faction was exactly to make opposite-faction lookalikes be easily distinguished on a PvE server.

[Mehrunes]

I don't think there's enough differentiation between High and Blood Elves for the High Elf "appearance " to be a valid choice for the proposed subrace system. Subrace choices need to carry the same kind of differentiation that Dark Iron Dwarves would have compared to Ironforge Dwarves, or Mechagnomes would have for regular Gnomes. Otherwise the main difference between Blood and High Elves would be as simple as an eye color slider from green to blue. Perhaps with the passage of time a different story could be told - if they never reconcile it's obvious that the High and Blood Elves (should they survive) would slowly become more and more different. But for now, that level differentiation is just not in evidence.

Given the fact they live in similar environments and live for extremely long periods of time while procreating rather sporadically, you'd need eons for any significant differences to appear. Unless High Elves get exposed to some source of magic or an artifact (like the legendary Alliance salt pillar) and get reshaped by it.

Quoting Alliance mag'har, horde wildammers or Alliance Forsaken is idiotic because they do not exist in lore. High elves do.

It's almost as if I were talking about game mechanics there. Besides, as your bud Vyve indirectly mentioned, Blizzard can pull Horde Wildhammers out of their ass any minute now.

And, about what Horde would get, Are you ignoring nightborne, which have been introduced just now, deeply developed and forming bonds with the Blood Elves, with a line of dialogue in 7.3 that trongly hints at them joining the Horde?

And they are a subrace of what, exactly? Because they are a subrace of Night Elves in the same capacity as the Blood Elves. I.e. they are completely separate races. Which makes little sense as a subrace. Shen'dralar would be a subrace of Night Elves. And they are Alliance.

Or even, more unlikely but not impossible, human-looking Forsaken, like Nathanos, which could be explained by Sylvanas getting her hands on some artifact to empower the ritual (maybe even the broken lantern of Helya, or the vampiric artifacts from Helheim)?

Please, you are not even trying to be fair with your arguments.

So many necromantic artifacts on Azeroth. Nevermind the fact that the Val'kyr used to be directly empowered by the Lich King himself. Because they were linked to him as his mind slaves. How are you going to replicate that bond? The Soulcage was clearly used to bind Eyir. And then what remained of it was used to feed our Artifacts. As for the Vampirates, they are literally humans with red eyes. Admittedly, they offer about as much variety as High Elves, but in both cases that variety is close to zero.

We are talking high elves to the Alliance and nightborne to the Horde. So, while high elves are too much alike blood elves, they'd be a sub-race to the night elves and be different enough from the "parent" race.

And then the subset of the Alliance crybabies that constantly complains about Horde questlines etc. being more exciting (and how that's the proof of Blizzard's intense hatred of the Alliance) will cry for another 12 years about muh Nightborne because all they got was a copy of a Horde model while the Horde got something more unique. While on one hand it'd be a change of pace, on the other hand it'd get equally annoying fast.

I have a very strong feeling that the reason Blizzard implemented the orange color tag names for opposite faction was exactly to make opposite-faction lookalikes be easily distinguished on a PvE server.

Or so that the players can know if they'll share a tag instead of wasting their time fighting a mob (especially in cases the opposing faction member deliberately stops fighting if they see you attacking and aggroing the mobs they tagged and wait for you to kill it).

[Aucald]

Given the fact they live in similar environments and live for extremely long periods of time while procreating rather sporadically, you'd need eons for any significant differences to appear. Unless High Elves get exposed to some source of magic or an artifact (like the legendary Alliance salt pillar) and get reshaped by it.

Anything I can think of along those lines (e.g. story advances and the like) would make the High Elves and/or Blood Elves a functionally different race entirely - such as Alleria's High Elven contingent embracing Void magic or abilities wholesale, or the Blood Elves become more and more Fel-corrupted for whatever reasons (or going the opposite way and becoming more Light-infused due to the new composition of the Sunwell). It would go beyond the more texture-based differences the original subrace idea was meant to provide.

- - - Updated - - -

We are talking high elves to the Alliance and nightborne to the Horde. So, while high elves are too much alike blood elves, they'd be a sub-race to the night elves and be different enough from the "parent" race.

I have a very strong feeling that the reason Blizzard implemented the orange color tag names for opposite faction was exactly to make opposite-faction lookalikes be easily distinguished on a PvE server.

My take on the whole subrace option was based more on alternative textures for each given race - Mag'har for Orcs, Zandalari or other Troll tribes for Trolls, Frostborn or Dark Iron for Dwarves, etc. etc. In that sense High Elf wouldn't make sense as a subrace choice for Night Elves because their both culturally and iconically unique - High Elves wouldn't have Night Elven racial abilities or class restrictions. In this case, I would argue they're *too* different from the parent race (Night Elves) to be an ideal subrace choice. Nightborne would make a better Night Elven subrace in my view - they're close enough to their parent race to qualify, and it would be easier to explain both racial abilities and/or class restrictions along those lines than it would for High Elves.

[Mehrunes]

Off-topic, but Alliance was pissed off during Cataclysm because it lost a lot and gained nothing. Playing as Alliance was borderline depressing, as many zones ended in failure or defeat. Faction war can be done right if both factions feel like they lost something but won something, but Alliance was not like that.

Because Alliance had more (but that was fine and dandy and Alliance players were hush hush about it) and then Blizzard made it equal, giving some lore justifications after the fact. And in-lore Alliance fought like morons. They stretched their invasion forces thin across ~8 core Horde zones, while the Horde focused their invasion almost exclusively on Gilneas and already contested Ashenvale.

Besides losing Southshore and the elven presence in Azshara because Horde needed more zones to level up, we also end up losing in Gilneas, Stonetalon, Barrens (pretty depressing, with the misunderstood good-willed commander being brutally murdered while his warmongering scumbag underlings take his place) and Western Plaguelands.

Gilneas was also due to faction balance. Goblins didn't get a capital either and Blizzard wouldn't put a new Alliance capital so close to Undercity (especially in an expansion set back in the old world) even if the new races did get capitals. Stonetalon is hardly an Alliance loss given how it culminated with the Horde bombing a neutral Druid school. Western Plaguelands was pure idiocy from military perspective. And the Horde lost in Swamp of Sorrows and Hinterlands.

We also end up in a stalemate in Hinterlands and are being perpetually attacked in Blasted Lands.

How on earth was that a stalemate? The Forsaken invasion force outright lost.

The only Alliance victory in Cataclysm was in Swamp of Sorrows, and even then the Horde was hurt but not expelled or conquered.

Just like Alliance forces in aforementioned Stonetalon and Southern Barrens?

Later on, we ended up losing Theramore as well.

Which had no real Horde equivalence to begin with.

Plus, zones like Arathi or Dustwallow, which had importance to Alliance, ended up having only little updates. Cataclysm was a pretty bad time to be Alliance (and having to deal with Thrall being our hero and savior only made it feel worse).

Stromgarde left the Alliance and never officially rejoined, so I'm not seeing this importance. But OK, let's say that it had some. But it also had importance to the Horde since it followed Forsaken storyline, which was also abruptly cut because of the lack of update. Alterac is surrounded by Forsaken territory from all sides and given its sorry state in vanilla after the occupants were steamrolled and should have been conquered by the Forsaken easily. Ended with no updates whatsoever (unless you count it being merged with Hillsbrad). Even UVG remained silent about its status. There's also the part where Stormpikes agreed to get the hell out of Alterac Valley prior to Cata. Not exactly reflected in Cata either.

Ironically, now it feels like the Horde is the one to be ignored. I will understand if the Horde get a lot of attention next expansion. They need to push the new orc and trolls leaders, make Baine do something. Give the Horde some reason to cheer up.

Where's the irony? Alliance wasn't ignored in Cata, it just got story that Alliance players didn't like while they deliberately ignored the favorable gameplay situation they benefited from (which included having more story) in the past. Meanwhile 7.2 had some content for the Allaince and nothing for the Horde, which is a first time such a ting has happened in WoW's history.

[Zulkhan]

You do realize that those who advocate that the High Elves could (or should, though I am not one of those people) become playable mean so as a sub-race, not a full blown race, right? And traded for the Nightborne on the Horde side. Half the argument you are trying the construct here becomes completely meaningless at that point.

They do? Because you read all kind of shit around here. And I'm pretty sure the time I spent debunking the same trite arguments over the years dwarfs whatever effort you're putting here right now. In the end it's always the same stuff, the same fallacious arguments that crumble like an house of cards the moment you get the regrettable idea to to deal with them.

And did you just propose Nightborne as Horde sub-race to serve as "trade off"? You people overestimate the extent of the whole subrace thing. Nightborne are way to characteristic and unique to become a mere Blood Elf subrace (let alone there's no reason they should become a subrace of Blood Elves specifically, much like is even more senseless for High Elves to be a Night Elf subrace, with their freaking clones being playable on the Horde by a decade already). And before someones starts screaming about bias, I believe the same about Trolls. Zandalari are never gonna become a Darkspear sub-race. The differences go way far beyond the mere "customization options".

If High Elves are ever gonna be a subrace, they'll be a Blood Elf subrace. Of course that kinda defeats the whole point of the "demand" but unfortunately, that's also the outcome that makes the most absolute sense. And I say that ignoring the fact that, in my opinion, High Elves are a worthless addition even as subrace, one with so insignificant appeal that its entire worth is tied to the faction they're going to be in. Put them in the Horde where they would logically belong and they're nothing. Shoehorn them in the Alliance and suddenly they would be some great shit simply because you can suddenly play Blood Elves without the need of playing Horde. Spectacular indeed.

Look, I get some people find the notion absurd or impossible to happen. There's just no need to get so agressively defensive about it. I get this forum is not a place where one should expect a respectful discussion, but some topics cause really ridiculous reactions from certain segments of people.

It eventually comes a moment where patience grows thin. This bullshit has went over for a whole fucking decade and the excuses, the arguments, the justifications for why High Elves would be a valuable addition are always the same. Always. And they suck. Always.

[Mehrunes]

It eventually comes a moment where patience grows thin. This bullshit has went over for a whole fucking decade and the excuses, the arguments, the justifications for why High Elves would be a valuable addition are always the same. Always. And they suck. Always.

I'm not sure which is worse between "muh (explicitly Alliance) High Elves" and "We're going to raid Svetlana tomorrow because she's a Lich Queen! You will see!11!!"

[DeicideUH]

It's almost as if I were talking about game mechanics there. Besides, as your bud Vyve indirectly mentioned, Blizzard can pull Horde Wildhammers out of their ass any minute now.

Just because we are on one side, I don't have to agree with everything he says. Putting a non-entity like Horde Wildhammers on the same bag as an existing faction of Alliance high elves is no argument.

And they are a subrace of what, exactly? Because they are a subrace of Night Elves in the same capacity as the Blood Elves. I.e. they are completely separate races. Which makes little sense as a subrace. Shen'dralar would be a subrace of Night Elves. And they are Alliance.

Considering they are all closely related, you can say all elves are sub-races.

So many necromantic artifacts on Azeroth. Nevermind the fact that the Val'kyr used to be directly empowered by the Lich King himself. Because they were linked to him as his mind slaves. How are you going to replicate that bond? The Soulcage was clearly used to bind Eyir. And then what remained of it was used to feed our Artifacts. As for the Vampirates, they are literally humans with red eyes. Admittedly, they offer about as much variety as High Elves, but in both cases that variety is close to zero.

Nathanos' new form was introduced for a reason. Be it a future sub-race or just an important plot point, I bet it will be explored somehow in the future.

And then the subset of the Alliance crybabies that constantly complains about Horde questlines etc. being more exciting (and how that's the proof of Blizzard's intense hatred of the Alliance) will cry for another 12 years about muh Nightborne because all they got was a copy of a Horde model while the Horde got something more unique. While on one hand it'd be a change of pace, on the other hand it'd get equally annoying fast.

I'm more concerned about the Horde "crybabies" that will be flooding the forums if I'm proven right. Hey, November is coming soon, and we will see.

Or so that the players can know if they'll share a tag instead of wasting their time fighting a mob (especially in cases the opposing faction member deliberately stops fighting if they see you attacking and aggroing the mobs they tagged and wait for you to kill it).

That has been happening for one decade and it was never addressed. You can even still lose tag to you own faction if 5 people have already tagged a mob.

Anything I can think of along those lines (e.g. story advances and the like) would make the High Elves and/or Blood Elves a functionally different race entirely - such as Alleria's High Elven contingent embracing Void magic or abilities wholesale, or the Blood Elves become more and more Fel-corrupted for whatever reasons (or going the opposite way and becoming more Light-infused due to the new composition of the Sunwell). It would go beyond the more texture-based differences the original subrace idea was meant to provide.

I think they'll give blood elves and high elves some more customization differences. Don't ask me what. I always thought the Thunder King staff would be used to empower them eventually (and Jaina will probably have some role in Kul Tiras), or maybe this void thing could lead somewhere.

My take on the whole subrace option was based more on alternative textures for each given race - Mag'har for Orcs, Zandalari or other Troll tribes for Trolls, Frostborn or Dark Iron for Dwarves, etc. etc. In that sense High Elf wouldn't make sense as a subrace choice for Night Elves because their both culturally and iconically unique - High Elves wouldn't have Night Elven racial abilities or class restrictions. In this case, I would argue they're *too* different from the parent race (Night Elves) to be an ideal subrace choice. Nightborne would make a better Night Elven subrace in my view - they're close enough to their parent race to qualify, and it would be easier to explain both racial abilities and/or class restrictions along those lines than it would for High Elves.

I think skin options will be added as skin options, not subraces. I.e.: we will get wildhammer and dark iron skins, and not sub-races that differ only due to skins. I'm expecting subraces to all have differences in their models. Things like broken, high elves (in relation to night elves), nightborne (in relation to blood elves), human-like Forsaken, forsaken elves or forest trolls.

Because Alliance had more (but that was fine and dandy and Alliance players were hush hush about it) and then Blizzard made it equal, giving some lore justifications after the fact. And in-lore Alliance fought like morons. They stretched their invasion forces thin across ~8 core Horde zones, while the Horde focused their invasion almost exclusively on Gilneas and already contested Ashenvale.

Are you implying we should be grateful of having content that just portrayed us as morons?

Gilneas was also due to faction balance. Goblins didn't get a capital either

That huge Bilgewater Harbor with class trainers may not be officially a capital, but could very well be.

Stonetalon is hardly an Alliance loss given how it culminated with the Horde bombing a neutral Druid school.

It's a loss because Alliance was trying to prevent that. Did you play as Alliance?

Western Plaguelands was pure idiocy from military perspective.

Considering that Alliance was winning until Sylvanas pulled the Val'kyr, it was a case of Sylvanas having a card up her esleeve.

And the Horde lost in Swamp of Sorrows and Hinterlands.

I cited SoS. But you didn't lose in Hinterlands. The best Alliance could do was fend off attacks. At no point it comes close to defeating the Horde or attack any of its bases.

How on earth was that a stalemate? The Forsaken invasion force outright lost.

We fend off an attack. We won a battle, but we never threatened the Horde bases. Then the story gets redirected to fighting forest trolls.

Just like Alliance forces in aforementioned Stonetalon and Southern Barrens?

We lost on both those places. The Alliance bases remain and the war continued, but both storylines end in a very depressing tone. Specially Barrens, in which the commander is a good guy and ends up murdered. In the quest experience for both Alliance and Horde in SoS, Alliance steals some supplies and is repelled. It's an Alliance victory, but the tone of the narrative is completely different from the crushing defeats of Stonetalon an Barrens, in which we suffer big losses. At least the Horde player can fend off the attack on Stonard.

Which had no real Horde equivalence to begin with.

So what? It was still a loss after many other losses.

Where's the irony? Alliance wasn't ignored in Cata, it just got story that Alliance players didn't like while they deliberately ignored the favorable gameplay situation they benefited from (which included having more story) in the past. Meanwhile 7.2 had some content for the Allaince and nothing for the Horde, which is a first time such a ting has happened in WoW's history.

I didn't see anyone complaining that Horde got an extra cinematic in 7.0. You had a cinematic about the passing of the torch from Vol'jin to Sylvanas. The Alliance equivalent just came out two patches later.

Also, it's amazing that even when you agree that Horde needs some attention, you sound like you want to disagree with me.