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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    If you know it, you should be able to back your claim with evidence. If you can't do that, then you can't be certain. I will note that witness testimony is valuable, so if you saw something happen that could be a valuable addition to a criminal case. But if you didn't see something happen, then all you have is hearsay. And hearsay is not grounds for conviction.
    no!! i know they did it because i know the girls it happened to ,why would they lie about it??????????????????????????

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Correct. It also doesn't mean you are not responsible for your actions. If someone initiates sex with you while drunk, and you consent at that time, that consent is valid. If you fall unconscious, that's another question.
    That's not how the law works though. Degree of drunkenness is an important aspect, if you're so drunk you don't understand wtf is going on then it's rape regardless of consent. Rape laws does not make drunk sex illegal, they make it illegal to engage in sexual acts with someone who doesn't know wtf is going on due to being too drunk.
    Last edited by Freighter; 2017-07-25 at 01:01 AM.

  3. #103
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dream View Post
    no!! i know they did it because i know the girls it happened to ,why would they lie about it??????????????????????????
    Whatever go troll elsewhere.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Freighter View Post
    That's not how the law works though. Degree of drunkenness is an important aspect, if you're so drunk you don't understand wtf is going on then it's rape regardless of consent. Rape laws does not make drunk sex illegal, they make it illegal to engage in sexual acts with someone who doesn't know wtf is going on due to being too drunk.
    Yeah and I think that's reasonable in principle. But a law like this is hard to apply. How do you know if someone is too drunk to know what's going on if they testify that they were conscious and able to respond to their environment? I think more concrete terms need to be applied here; otherwise it only serves as a means of siding with the sympathetic party.
    Last edited by Underverse; 2017-07-25 at 01:08 AM.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Whatever go troll elsewhere.
    that is not trolling!!! i know they did it, the girls know they did it!! we can call them rapists because we know they are rapists!! don't need any proof more than them experiencing it and retelling to others what happened!!

  5. #105
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    I had to stop reading this thread by the third page of posts because it seems 75% of you think "blacked out" = "unconscious". It doesn't. In the case of drinking and alcohol "blacked out" simply means you don't have memory of what happened afterwards. It is impossible for other people to tell when someone else is at the stage of black out drunk because what it has to do with is forming memories, not their state of wakefulness at the time.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Yeah and I think that's reasonable in principle. But a law like this is hard to apply. How do you know if someone is too drunk to know what's going on if they testify that they were conscious and able to respond to their environment? I think more concrete terms need to be applied here; otherwise it only serves as a means of siding with the sympathetic party.
    Exactly. And the problem is people don't care about the legal definition at the time, regardless of the fact that knowing when someone is unable to consent isn't always an objective thing. If someone is unconscious then clearly they are objectively unable to consent. Except blacking out and not remembering things except for a few blurred moments of the sexual encounter doesn't equivocate to the person being unconscious and not participating in having sex during the act. They could very well have been involved, even aggressively, and simply not remember it. And saying that there's a subjective magical line between having a buzz and unconscious that renders someone incapable of consenting is ridiculous. The reality is if we even-handedly charged people with rape in instances of drunken sex where they were, by legal definition, both incapable of consenting there'd be a hell of a lot of men and women charged with rape on a daily basis in about every college town or city in the US, let alone everyone else. The entire topic is sadly laughable because actual rape is a horrible thing. Regret, however, does not equal rape.

  7. #107
    Passed out, can barely walk, puking on themselves? yeah, they cant consent.

    2-3 beers, a good buzz going, unzipping some guys pants and blowing them? yeah, they are totally consenting.

    There is a difference between buzzed and shitfaced. And the wording says if someone is that drunk they cannot consent to sex. So if they are both drunk, are we to assume the woman is the lesser human, being unable to consent while the equally drunk male can? If that is the argument, it sounds like a big steaming pile of horseshit. The girl in this case was obviously date raped. You cant throw a blanket law down when there are varying degrees of inebriation. If you are going to hold them to the "drunk is drunk" standard, then there should be no legal limit for DUI. any alcohol found in the system would be sufficient to arrest and charge. Shit's getting way out of hand, there has to be proper discernment.

  8. #108
    1. Sucks for everyone involved in this particular story. Guy apparently tried to do the right thing, but it still went sideways, and the fact that they were friends before this makes it worse.

    2. There is no objective standard of too drunk to consent. I have seen people pass out after 3 beers, I have seen other people rally after 15 shots, and retold the story of the entire night to everyone else the next day. Passed out is passed out, but it isn't immediately clear whether she was passed out and non responsive, or partially conscious but still apparently coherent. It can be exceedingly difficult to tell the difference in most cases.

    3. Authority figures in general need to better informed about how to handle these types of situations, whether it is blaming the victim, or unjustly punishing the suspect based in a false accusation. Both happen with too high a frequency for any sane person to be comfortable with.

    4. For the uninformed in this thread - a contract signed while under the influence of drugs or alcohol is unenforceable and will be voided by the courts if challenged in the vast majority of cases. This does not include spending your money on something you ordinarily wouldn't, but specifically putting pen to paper and agreeing to terms.

    5. The idea that drunks-cant-consent means DUIs are not the responsibility of the drunk driver is abhorrent. There are laws specifically forbidding the operation of a motor vehicle above a given level of intoxication, objective assessment of whether the offender is above that level of intoxication, and absolutely zero grey area. Until we pass a law saying you can't consent above a 0.08 Blood Alcohol Level and start administering breathalyzers to would-be sexual partners, there is no such objectivity in cases like this.

    All that said - I used to work at a retailer that sold mostly accurate breathalyzer keychains, and would highly recommend anyone intending to go out drinking with the intent to hook up get one, and use it. Much better to get rejected because the breathalyzer is a bitthreadsthan charged with rape because you couldn't be added to double check.

    Also, agreed on banning these types of threads. I'm a new poster but a long time lurker, I've seen dozens of these threads, and they ALWAYS turn out the same way.
    Last edited by Antiganon; 2017-07-25 at 01:49 AM.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dream View Post
    we know they did it!!
    unless your batman, the truth is irrelevant unless you can prove it in court
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    unless your batman, the truth is irrelevant unless you can prove it in court
    they are rapists, dont need conviction in court to say they are rapists when we know they did it!

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dream View Post
    they are rapists, dont need conviction in court to say they are rapists when we know they did it!
    Now you're getting into the territory of defamation, which has legal consequences.

  12. #112
    if both are legally drunk no fault imo... or equal fault how can either consent? or read the other person?
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Now you're getting into the territory of defamation, which has legal consequences.
    157.pants. Neslavas celšana
    (1) Par apzināti nepatiesu, otru personu apkaunojošu izdomājumu tīšu izplatīšanu iespiestā vai citādā veidā pavairotā sacerējumā, kā arī mutvārdos, ja tā izdarīta publiski (neslavas celšana), —
    soda ar piespiedu darbu vai ar naudas sodu.
    (2) Par neslavas celšanu masu saziņas līdzeklī —
    soda ar īslaicīgu brīvības atņemšanu vai ar piespiedu darbu, vai ar naudas sodu.

    its not defamation if its true! they would have to prove its false for it to be defamation!
    Last edited by mmocb949c9f970; 2017-07-25 at 02:05 AM.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    the burden of proof is on the accuser.

    And rape cases by their nature arnt always the easiest, which retards translate to as "rape culture" or "not taking rape seriously"
    The police didn't interview anyone for 5 days...was she supposed to collect the evidence herself? The police did perform a rape kit though..they just chose not to test it, cause you know "she shouldn't have drank so much"

    Rape is also very hard to prove, thus convictions are hard to get. Some may view that as not-guilty, some may view it as "false accusation".
    Last edited by chrisberb; 2017-07-25 at 02:06 AM.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    If it happens wouldn't we be hearing more about incidents like this?
    No we wouldn't because the default reaction among some is the guy is always a raping lying scum

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  16. #116
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    And if two drunk people start having sex, what then? WHAT THEN?!

  17. #117
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    Couple things:

    “If someone is under the influence, they cannot consent. They very literally can’t,” said Mason. “Society has infiltrated the minds of most people to say, well, you shouldn't have gotten drunk then.”
    Patently false.

    “It is the initiating partner’s responsibility to ensure that their partner is offering a full consent at every step of the sexual activity,” wrote Denis in an email.
    This is irrational logic. No intimate encounter proceeds in this manner. Logic dictates that if any point you want the encounter to stop, you say stop. Then it's the other person's responsibility to stop. If you're unconscious (not the same as "blacked out"), then obviously it's the other person's responsibility to stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    One was not conscious, the other was not. When someones sleeping and not doing anything, just stop, its logic.
    So they were both unconscious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    So are you saying she was losing her memory than?
    "Black-out" drunk does not mean unconscious. It's the state in which your intoxication causes you to stop retaining memory. This typically happens while you're still conscious and capable of making decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dream View Post
    they dont care about the girl wanting to or not at all so yes they are very rapist
    That's not how that word works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dream View Post
    lol! you live in deluded world, these guys dont care if the girl wants or not!! they just do it even if she is not awake because everyone will just blame the girl!! like you do!!!
    Please, check your emo at the door.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dream View Post
    not wild claims! we have guys like this in school but not enough evidence for police, we know they raped girls!! the girls just get told they have themselfs to blame for drinking and having sex with them?????????
    How you do know they did? Were you there and did you see it happen? No? Then you don't know. Also, more than one ! or ? does not emphasize your statement. It just makes it look stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dream View Post
    burden of proof dont have anything to do with whether someone is rapist or not!! we know they did it!!
    It has everything to do with whether or not they're a rapist. Ask any judge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dream View Post
    they are rapists, dont need conviction in court to say they are rapists when we know they did it!
    Actually, they do. Your friend telling you it happened is neither evidence nor proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dream View Post
    its not defamation if its true! they would have to prove its false for it to be defamation!
    Actually, it's defamation it can't be proven to be true. Maybe learn how that works, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlarStormbringer View Post
    And if two drunk people start having sex, what then? WHAT THEN?!
    Clearly the guy's a rapist still. Girls can't "rape" or take advantage of a guy. Ain't you heard? /s

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    It has everything to do with whether or not they're a rapist. Ask any judge.
    judge dont have any say in if someone is rapist or not if people know they did it


    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    Actually, they do. Your friend telling you it happened is neither evidence nor proof.
    no we dont need that!


    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    Actually, it's defamation it can't be proven to be true. Maybe learn how that works, eh?
    no that is not how it works

    157.pants. Neslavas celšana
    (1) Par apzināti nepatiesu, otru personu apkaunojošu izdomājumu tīšu izplatīšanu iespiestā vai citādā veidā pavairotā sacerējumā, kā arī mutvārdos, ja tā izdarīta publiski (neslavas celšana), —
    soda ar piespiedu darbu vai ar naudas sodu.
    (2) Par neslavas celšanu masu saziņas līdzeklī —

    translation of the law here would be would be

    to knowingly distribute false statements, knowing them to be untrue and defamatory of another person, in printed or otherwise reprodeuced material, as well as orally, if made in public

    if you know did they did it, it cant be false statements that are known to be untrue! that is like saying you cant call someone thief if they snatch your phone from your hands even if not convicted in court! not defamation to say what you know about people!
    Last edited by mmocb949c9f970; 2017-07-25 at 02:51 AM.

  19. #119
    Brewmaster Slirith's Avatar
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    If both were drunk well, this fits...


  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    Im still confused on how this is confusing to this day. When you fuck someone thats clearly not conscious, it will be up to them if they feel they have been raped or not. You dont fuck people that cant do anything to participate, for or against sex. Wow that was easy?
    Blacking out just means you have no memory of it. Doesn't mean you aren't conscious.

    Sure doesn't make it rape.


    It's curious how feminists claim equal rights yet they want to absolve women of the consequences of their own actions by making them, ironically, look too immature to deal with them.

    It's very simple, if you find yourself in such a situation stop drinking like a pig.

    Absolutely disgusting and sexist.

    Jesus Christ.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Warrior View Post
    When lifting that alcohol to your lips you pretty much forfeit any right to complain about your actions whilst drunk. Sexual or otherwise.

    I mean if it's spiked then sure, it's rape. Anything else is just regret.
    Another pants on head retarded thing. If you get drunk and start shit you get charged. If you get drunk and fuck someone the one you fuck gets charged.

    What?

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