Confusion continues surrounding drunken consent

[Deleted]

Meh. The laws are roughly the same. The difference is that I actually understand how they work.

no you dont understand it

[Mistame]

no you dont understand it

Considering the number of irrational and hyperbolic posts you've made in this thread, this really doesn't mean anything.

[Ghostpanther]

If you choose to get drunk...you get to be responsible for what Drunk you does or consents to. If you pass the fuck out and some guy puts his dick in you, that is rape. If you tell a guy no, and he puts his dick in you...that is rape. If you say YES and can't remember.....that is NOT rape.

So unless there is a recording or creditable witnesses ( I would not count other drunks as creditable witness ) , how would you know you said yes if you do not remember? They going to take the word of the one who took advantage of you, as truth? Are you?

[Themius]

Ugh, America. Let me break it down:

Most people pick eachother up in bars.
Bars serve alcohol.
People in bars tend to drink alcohol.
Therefor a pickup is usually either drunk or tipsy.
A drunk adult can still differentiate right from wrong and consent.

Tadaaa. Logic. Needless to say fucking unconscious people is a bit sketchy.
The article clearly states that she blacked out. She was conscious, she just cant remember it.

Timmins is in Canada.

[Deleted]

So unless there is a recording or creditable witnesses ( I would not count other drunks as creditable witness ) , how would you know you said yes if you do not remember? They going to take the word of the one who took advantage of you, as truth? Are you?

thats why so many rapists walk free beause they do!

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So unless there is a recording or creditable witnesses ( I would not count other drunks as creditable witness ) , how would you know you said yes if you do not remember? They going to take the word of the one who took advantage of you, as truth? Are you?

thats why so many rapists walk free because they do!

[munkeyinorbit]

Blacking out does not equal passing out. Also, a sober person can not tell when a drunk person is blacked out. That confirmation occurs the next day.

Only a retard would not know the difference between someone who is black out drunk and isn't. Black out does equal passed out. Did you even read OP? Or are you just jumping on in to promote and defend rape culture?

It is pretty simple. If the person didn't say yes, then stop. If the person stops moving. Stop. If the person is slurring. Stop. If you ignore that then you are a rapist. Doesn't matter how drunk you are.

[Mistame]

So unless there is a recording or creditable witnesses ( I would not count other drunks as creditable witness ) , how would you know you said yes if you do not remember? They going to take the word of the one who took advantage of you, as truth? Are you?

You seem to be missing the point. One is rape, the other isn't (as denoted by the status of the consent). And because the burden of proof lies on the accuser, too many of the former cases will be treated like the latter. It's unfortunate, but there's really nothing to be done about it.

Only a retard would not know the difference between someone who is black out drunk and isn't. Black out does equal passed out.

I've already explained this. "Black-out" drunk is not unconscious. It's the point of intoxication where you stop retaining memories. While that point varies for each person, it typically occurs while still conscious and perfectly capable of making decisions.

Or are you just jumping on in to promote and defend rape culture?

There is no "rape culture".

[Gestopft]

I've never heard someone say they believe blacking out is NOT passing out.

"Blacked out" and "passed out" both can mean to lose consciousness, but "black-out drunk" doesn't mean that you are passing out- it means (iirc) that the alcohol you've had is interfering with your hippocampus's ability to create memories. Someone who is "black-out drunk" is conscious and interactive, but they won't remember what happened the next day, or even later in the evening. It happens not necessarily because of how much you drink, but how quickly your BAC spikes, so apparent intoxication level isn't necessarily a sign of being blacked out- the best way to tell if someone is blacked out is by asking them what happened about 15 minutes ago.

[Ghostpanther]

You seem to be missing the point. One is rape, the other isn't (as denoted by the status of the consent). And because the burden of proof lies on the accuser, too many of the former cases will be treated like the latter. It's unfortunate, but there's really nothing to be done about it.

I did not miss this part of the text the guy sent to her after the event , “Sorry, for all this. I didn’t know if you want this or not, but I made sure, I asked like 5 times and stuff and yeah, my apologies I feel like a huge dick I don’t if it because of, you know you’re too drunk or what not. But just text me when you at least get in.” Sounds like he was sober enough to know she was too drunk to consent, but he let his dick do the thinking. :P

[Mistame]

I did not miss this part of the text the guy sent to her after the event , “Sorry, for all this. I didn’t know if you want this or not, but I made sure, I asked like 5 times and stuff and yeah, my apologies I feel like a huge dick I don’t if it because of, you know you’re too drunk or what not. But just text me when you at least get in.” Sounds like he was sober enough to know she was too drunk to consent, but he let his dick do the thinking. :P

I was referring specifically to the examples you responded to. And that text could easily read as though he asked and she acquiesced 5 times, he just didn't feel right about it after the fact. Like he was apologizing if she regretted it the next morning.

[Ghostpanther]

I was referring specifically to the examples you responded to. And that text could easily read as though he asked and she acquiesced 5 times, he just didn't feel right about it after the fact. Like he was apologizing if she regretted it the next morning.

I know it is something which a person should not be charged simply on the basis of a person saying they were raped. They need to prove it. But in this case, I think the police had some evidence of misconduct and could have done a better job of investigating it. He said he asked 5 times, does that mean she said yes 5 times or said nothing? Or as a min did not say no. One can also easily see that as what happened. Was the guy ever questioned by the police in a interrogation?

[Fojos]

One was not conscious, the other was not. When someones sleeping and not doing anything, just stop, its logic.

Did you even bother to read his post or the article? Have you ever been drunk? Blackout has nothing to do with conscience. It just means the drinking you did caused minor brain damage (memory loss).

Is life complicated for you?

Only a retard would not know the difference between someone who is black out drunk and isn't. Black out does equal passed out. Did you even read OP? Or are you just jumping on in to promote and defend rape culture?

It is pretty simple. If the person didn't say yes, then stop. If the person stops moving. Stop. If the person is slurring. Stop. If you ignore that then you are a rapist. Doesn't matter how drunk you are.

What you in reality mean is: if you are male and the woman is slurring, it's rape. If both are slurring the man is guilty of rape. If only the guy is drunk YOU GO GIRL. Just kidding, the man is still the rapist.

We already know your type. Live in reality, in most of these cases both are drunk. And no, a drunk or sober person will NOT know if you "black out" because it's just memory loss. Some people don't even have to become noticably drunk to start having these memory losses.

Only idiots believe there is rape culture in countries like Canada.

[Venters]

The easiest way to solve this problem, make it illegal for women to drink. Tada! now there's never any questions about whether or not consent was given while drunk.

[Deleted]

I know it is something which a person should not be charged simply on the basis of a person saying they were raped. They need to prove it. But in this case, I think the police had some evidence of misconduct and could have done a better job of investigating it. He said he asked 5 times, does that mean she said yes 5 times or said nothing? Or as a min did not say no. One can also easily see that as what happened. Was the guy ever questioned by the police in a interrogation?

these kind of guys would take silence as consent! think if you dont object then its yes!!

[Mistame]

I know it is something which a person should not be charged simply on the basis of a person saying they were raped. They need to prove it. But in this case, I think the police had some evidence of misconduct and could have done a better job of investigating it. He said he asked 5 times, does that mean she said yes 5 times or said nothing? Or as a min did not say no. One can also easily see that as what happened. Was the guy ever questioned by the police in interrogation?

As was mentioned earlier, there's really enough information. I will agree that with we do know, it appears the police screwed up the investigation.

[Deleted]

Did you even bother to read his post or the article? Have you ever been drunk? Blackout has nothing to do with conscience. It just means the drinking you did caused minor brain damage (memory loss).

Is life complicated for you?

i have been drunk, didnt have memory loss! couldnt stay awake later in the evening

[Antiganon]

1. Bad situation all around. Seems like the guy tried to do the right thing, thought everything was all good (likely due to his own intoxication), but it still went sideways. Doubly sucks that they were friends beforehand.

2. Law enforcement and other authority figures need better training on how to handle this type of thing across the board. Things you SHOULDN'T do include: blaming the victim, assuming facts not in evidence, not adequately questioning witnesses or processing evidence in the appropriate timeframe (i.e. immediately after receiving the initial report), immediately assigning guilt to the suspect regardless of circumstances, sweeping it under the rug. Any sane person should be able to agree that any amount of victim blaming OR false conviction (or punishment without conviction) is too much.

3. There is not enough information in the article to determine several key aspects of the story. She could have been completely unconscious, partially conscious but apparently coherent, fully conscious and coherent but with memory impairment, etc. It can be very difficult to tell the difference between the latter two, especially when her partner was also intoxicated, even moreso if they have not been out drinking together before.

4. You are unable to enter into a legally binding contract while drunk, high, mentally unfit, etc. If you do so, and renege on your end of the contract, and the contract is challenged in court, the judge would most likely vacate the contract in its entirety. This does not apply to making irresponsible purchases you later regret, but specifically putting pen to paper and agreeing to terms.

5. Likening drunk sex and drunk driving is simply abhorrent. There exist very clear laws regarding the amount of alcohol that can legally be consumed prior to operating a motor vehicle, and objective methods for determining current levels of intoxication. Until we determine a legal limit for consent and start administering breathalyzers to would be partners ahead of sex, there is no legitimate comparison here.

6. I used to work at a major retailer that sold keychain breathalyzers. The intention was that people could self test before driving and determine whether or not it was safe to drive themselves home, but I would recommend them here as well. You may get rejected because whipping out a breathalyzer at the time you would normally get a condom is weird, but it is better to get rejected than to get charged with rape because you couldn't be bothered to double check.

7. These types of threads probably should be banned. I have only recently started posting, but I have been lurking for a very long time, and they always go down exactly the same way. OP posts the article, calls for outrage on behalf of the blamed victim or the falsely accused, and the usual suspects jump in to defend their preferred narrative until people start flaming and the thread either dies out or is closed by mods. Little constructive discussion can happen when people aren't even open to hearing the other side, much less using evidence based critical thinking to arrive at a well reasoned conclusion.

[Fojos]

I've never heard someone say they believe blacking out is NOT passing out.

Maybe you've been stuck with games. Even in school you learn the possible effects of alcohol.

[Deleted]

I did not miss this part of the text the guy sent to her after the event , “Sorry, for all this. I didn’t know if you want this or not, but I made sure, I asked like 5 times and stuff and yeah, my apologies I feel like a huge dick I don’t if it because of, you know you’re too drunk or what not. But just text me when you at least get in.” Sounds like he was sober enough to know she was too drunk to consent, but he let his dick do the thinking. :P

That is not how this works, as long as she is conscious she can consent. There really isn't such a thing as "too drunk to consent", because the only time that you really are too drunk to consent, you are literally unconscious. So the correct thing to say would be you can not consent while unconscious, because it has very little to do with being drunk and everything to do with being conscious.

Him asking 5 times is nothing more then him being scared that she would claim rape after the fact. And apparently he was rightfully scared because that is exactly what happened.

[Fojos]

i have been drunk, didnt have memory loss! couldnt stay awake later in the evening

Actually, you did have slight memory loss, unless you just drank one or two small glasses. Not on the level of a black-out, but this level is different for everyone.

"Later blackout-specific studies have indicated that alcohol specifically impairs the brain's ability to take short-term memories and experiences and transfer them to long-term memory."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blac...lated_amnesia)