Europe to retaliate over US Sanctions....on Russia

[Skroe]

With Trump at helm? That sounds quite plausible.

Trump isn't a negotiator in the room and not in control of sanctions.

Because "natural evolution of US" is what got Trump at presidential seat.

No. An information warfare and espionage campaign perpetrated by our enemy, your country, Russia, which will spend the duration of rest of your natural life paying for what it did.

This is why Putin's KGB bosses though he was incompetent. He got himself what... a little chaos in the US? Trump can't relieve sanctions and Russia just bought two generations of record-levels of American hostility towards your country, which isn't nearly as powerful as the USSR was.

It's going to be hilarious when Congress legislates a response to the INF Treaty.

Where "small print" is "we'll sanction everyone who deals with Russia, including our allies, and in some part specifically our allies like with North Stream 2".

In the actual agreement none of us are privy to because it (a) doesn't exist yet and (b) none of us are US-EU negotiators....?

Which French themselves denied btw.

Uh huh.

You need a new hobby. You've gone from being a mildly capable Russian propagandist to an absolutely talentless bore at it. Like seriously that second to last item I quoted? That's what you had? Where's the small print in a public statement about something that isn't even law yet and hasn't had a single bi-lateral meeting over yet? Piss poor attempt, boy. Piss poor.

[CostinR]

Drama queens. The US and EU went through this shit in 2016 with that round of sanctions. And in 2015 too.

They arm wrestle about it and then come to an accord. It's going to be oh-so-shocking when the exact same story plays out all over again.

Don't ignore a crucial angle this time around: It's election year in Germany.

Merkel needs to win and she needs to win convincingly so that she doesn't have to make another coalition with the russian gas loving, anti-nuclear, lower defense spending SPD.

So that sanctions bill at this time will make it hard for Merkel to accept. This IS ultimately about Germany.

[Fuiking]

Yesterday/earlier today I forgot a research done by the Town council of Aachen of the effects of a meltdown in Tihange.

It was based on '95 and the near miss there, research was disheartening, the following cities would have to be evac'ed, and would be unliveable for generations:
Liege, Brussels, Aachen, Maastricht, Leuven, and it will hit the Western region of the Ruhr. We are talking about several million of people affected by it in the danger zone alone. So yeah.... Nuclear power has to go.

[Deleted]

Trump isn't a negotiator in the room and not in control of sanctions.


No. An information warfare and espionage campaign perpetrated by our enemy, your country, Russia, which will spend the duration of rest of your natural life paying for what it did.

It was American voters who put Trump in the white house, not russians. The realist who doesn't do reality.

The American people did this to themselves, make whatever excuses you want.

[Skroe]

Don't ignore a crucial angle this time around: It's election year in Germany.

Merkel needs to win and she needs to win convincingly so that she doesn't have to make another coalition with the russian gas loving, anti-nuclear, lower defense spending SPD.

So that sanctions bill at this time will make it hard for Merkel to accept. This IS ultimately about Germany.

So Merkel will make a stand on some things she'll discretely reneg on later on as is her way. She can have a blast. The US fully deserves to be a bit of a punching bag right now.

Or hell the US can decide to implement sanctions negotiations after the German elections and sidestep it all together. There are many ways to make this work. The US wants to do it. Merkel is no friend of Russia. She'll find a way to make it happen.

Who says the road has to be straight?

[CostinR]

Or hell the US can decide to implement sanctions negotiations after the German elections and sidestep it all together. There are many ways to make this work. The US wants to do it. Merkel is no friend of Russia. She'll find a way to make it happen.

Who says the road has to be straight?

This would be quite ideal in terms of effective implementation.

[Mayhem]

Don't ignore a crucial angle this time around: It's election year in Germany.

Merkel needs to win and she needs to win convincingly so that she doesn't have to make another coalition with the russian gas loving, anti-nuclear, lower defense spending SPD.

So that sanctions bill at this time will make it hard for Merkel to accept. This IS ultimately about Germany.

Still waiting for sources ... in this or the other thread, how ever you wish. And yeah, she's currently polling at 40%... with SPD being around 25%, soo plenty of coalition options to form a majority.

[Skroe]

This would be quite ideal in terms of effective implementation.

Yep.

I mean, let's be real. With Congress essentially taking Russia-related foreign policy out of the White House hands with this sanctions bill (the bill's language goes way, WAY beyond just sanctions), these sanctions are never coming off. It will take both chambers of Congress writing and passing a repeal law, and then a future President to sign it, to remove them.

Anyone wanna take a bet what decade that happens? Democrats are never going to forget 2016. Republicans still largely detest Russia. Yeah. Decades.

So there's no rush. Why force September when we can do it in December with less fuss? What's 4 months when we're going be doing our damedest to make Russia poorer and less secure for decades to come?

But still... next year... Magnitsky II... hopefully.

[Shalcker]

Trump isn't a negotiator in the room and not in control of sanctions.

Well, who is your "master negotiator" for this situation then? Who is going to deal with this EU complaint exactly? Can you name him?

No. An information warfare and espionage campaign perpetrated by our enemy, your country, Russia, which will spend the duration of rest of your natural life paying for what it did.

Denial of your own faults is what got you here; Russia just amplified the message.

It's going to be hilarious when Congress legislates a response to the INF Treaty.

Yes, it's hilarious to think that Congress has some further punishment for INF violation when it already sanctioned deals with Russian defense sector in this one.

Seriously, you're scrapping bottom of the barrel already; the fact that you have to include your allies in sanctions shows it quite clearly.

Uh huh.

Last time i checked NSA director wasn't French.

Here is what French said:

US officials have said they tipped off French officials that Russian hackers had targeted the campaign of Emmanuel Macron before he won the second round of the presidential campaign.

But on Thursday, the head of France’s cybersecurity agency said it found no sign that the Russian hacking group APT28, also known as FancyBear, was behind a large-scale hack of emails and data from Macron’s campaign.

Guillaume Poupard, director general of the ANSSI agency, told the Associated Press on Thursday that the Macron campaign hack “was so generic and simple that it could have been practically anyone”.

ANSSI experts investigated the hack, which resulted in about 9GB of data being dumped on the internet less than 48 hours before the second round run-off between Macron and far-right candidate Marine Le Pen.

Poupard said the investigation had uncovered no trace of APT28, adding that the attack’s simplicity “means we can imagine it was a person who did this alone. They could be in any country”.

[Xarkan]

Where "small print" is "we'll sanction everyone who deals with Russia, including our allies, and in some part specifically our allies like with North Stream 2".

Considering the tensions that have developed between russia and neighbours with pipelines going through them i personally would rather North Stream 2 became no stream

[Noradin]

you do know i'm a conservative?
I'd vote for Merkel in a heartbeat.

You want us to believe that when you try so hard to ridicule her for something that is obviously not true?

[Sunseeker]

And this is why Russia will continue to get away with their shenanigans.
The US has the same problem with the ME.

[Noradin]

So, you would rather be at the mercy of a tyrant? sounds logical to me, I always thought thy holier than thou Europeans would want to diversify into as much renewable energy? and lower carbon emissions? I mean the US gets bagged on here for this, but were making massive headway into the renewable space. The EU should make a stand against Russia, and dive headfirst into renewable and nuclear energy to drive real change.

No, the EU does not want to be at the mercy of a tyrant, that is why they want to keep several options for their energy supply.

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Well, Russian solution to this is closed fuel cycle rather then banning nuclear. We're furthest ahead in that and our program is projected to get results somewhere around 2050.

And that is something that has its merits, but the man problem with it is the volume you need to keep it going, and thus transport of either energy or radioactive materials, both of which come with quite some problems.
Also, the fuel does cause a lot of pollution before it can be used to generate power.
And then there is the problem that fuel is not all there is to a nuclear power plant. Such a power plant is made up of parts that degrade and turn into dangerous waste simply because they are used in said power plant. You have to get rid of that, too.

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America First. Suck it up Europe. Would you rather support US or Russia?

With that kind of attitude?
Probably Russia. At least they are predictabe.

[Shalcker]

Considering the tensions that have developed between russia and neighbours with pipelines going through them i personally would rather North Stream 2 became no stream

What, you cannot wait to have Germany being blackmailed by Ukraine and Poland as transit countries for Russian gas?

As well as pay for modernization of Ukrainian gas system? (because Russia certainly isn't going to)

[Noradin]

Just a tiny bit more money for cancer research.

Increases in overall population from things that can fly are quite low, radiation itself drops quite fast with distance, most radioactive products are localized to event site, and those most active also lose activity fastest (due to low half-life).

So?
Keep them in Sibiria where there is no one in range, but Europe is small enough area wise as is.

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All true, but I had a better idea.



Just sayin'. We could cut out the middle man.

There is no reason to give China opportunity to gain even more lands.

[Xarkan]

What, you cannot wait to have Germany being blackmailed by Ukraine and Poland as transit countries for Russian gas?

As well as pay for modernization of Ukrainian gas system? (because Russia certainly isn't going to)

They could buy elsewhere

I certainly do not want to risk Denmark getting into a needless and pointless diplomatic turf war with Russia just so Germany can get cheap gas

Edit: Obviously one can argue some tension by saying no to a pipeline but the tensions that having pipelines from russia seesm to generate far exceeds the ones from saying no

[JohnBrown1917]

Probably Russia. At least they are predictabe.

I vote for neither, as long as Putin and Trump are in charge.

[Shalcker]

They could buy elsewhere

They already do. Those "other sources" aren't without faults either, plus new sanctions actually want to block ALL projects with Russian participation, which can easily kill TAP too (as it has significant Russian stake).

[Noradin]

I vote for neither, as long as Putin and Trump are in charge.

Sure, but if I had to choose one to answer his question then it surely wouldn't have been the USA.

[Puremallace]

Hey EU I am so sure if you want Russian assets that bad then Putin would be happy to welcome you into the Mother Russia coalition. EU are such hypocrites. Russia fucked with our elections and they are going to pay for it.