Breath Spec still pulling ahead on the PTR....

[Coldvibes]

Let him be daft, this sounds like the kind of ignorant player that tries to use double charge HRW on pull for Fallen Avatar.

[Kluian05]

Let him be daft, this sounds like the kind of ignorant player that tries to use double charge HRW on pull for Fallen Avatar.

Well in heroic you can do that (and I believe last I looked the top parses of Frost DK were doing so). I just pop Icebound + AMS to soak the dmg from the run-out mechanic.

[Coldvibes]

Yeah, heroic...

[Kendros]

C'mon, now. You need to pool your resources, save your cooldowns, align to bloodlust and other external cooldowns, base your build and gear around maximizing uptime, and know the fight well enough to use it at the right spot so you don't have to leave melee range for the next 30+ seconds. All these things demonstrably require skill and attention. Not rocket-science, sure. But more than the standard frost builds.

Just like every other class and spec in the game have to do.

[Baddok21]

Yeah, heroic...

well... unless your in a top 20 World guild your not working on Mythic Avatar so for 99.999~% of DKs and 100% of Frost DKs, for all intents and purposes your using double HRW charge on Avatar pull and just AMS+IBF soaking the first AoE.

[Hctaz]

Just like every other class and spec in the game have to do.

Yeah and the baseline frost dk doesn't have ANY of that shit. So it makes our spec play like normal classes do. Means we gotta use our brains.

[Schizoide]

Many of 'em require similar effort, sure. Like I said it isn't exactly brain surgery, but it definitely requires more effort and attention than baseline frost DK.

[Ashaeron]

The problem isn't BoS vs non-BoS. The 3 talents will be Obliteration (still bad), Breath (relative nerfs, still good) and HRW+20%Haste (analysis pending).

Here's the thing: if you take a purely MG focused build, Breath is likely STILL BETTER than the other 2 options. All of this is speculative anyway, can't analyse properly until the talents actually go up on 7.3PTR

[Super Kami Dende]

The point of it was, BoS wasn't expected to become shit. The Changes were made so that if for some reason your BoS was cut short or you couldn't maintain it for an hour, your DPS inbetween wasn't godawful.

[Deleted]

BOS is btw great for movement as long as you keep a target. And with very shorts you should nearly always find s window for BOS.

[Deleted]

First of all , i have to say that im a huge lover of BoS Spec , loved it when it was on all 3 specs , loving it a bit less now , but still i prefer it to MG spec :v

Now , i've been trough all nighthold with my dk , and i must say that sometimes id prefer a more substained spec specially on fight that requires a lot of movement and don't let you skip any mechanics (Trilliax's cakes for example , u have to help the raid soaking )

Taking this in consideration , its nice to have a 2 viable specs within the same class , one working well for a determined fight and the other for others.

[Raiz]

Aren't you tired of the same flame fest ? It has been there for as long as Wotlk existed. Can't we all agree that both specs require differents plannings ? That both specs are hard to play with their own mechanics ? Can't we flame the blood spec instead ? I heard it has one of the easiest rotation we've ever witnessed.

Can we please, stop ?

[fiestatastic]

What changes? Don't use Frost Strike, thats almost all. Why do people always act as if bos is godsend for Frost? It's scumy on mechanical bosses and forces the specc to stick to one single build. But yeah, go on with yourself thinking BoS is so skillful.

I've never seen anyone post anything similar to what you're typing (godsend, etc). Drama queen much?

People typically simply state that it takes more effort than machine gun, which if you have a pulse, 1 working finger, and are 1/3 paying attention to WoW on your monitor can easily do.

[Raugnaut]

By this point in time, Blizzard should have simply wisened up and just make BoS baseline for Frost. Its been top talent since forever.

[Hoeth]

By this point in time, Blizzard should have simply wisened up and just make BoS baseline for Frost. Its been top talent since forever.

You consider the time between the opening of Nighthold to the present as "forever?"

[Baddok21]

You consider the time between the opening of Nighthold to the present as "forever?"

It was the best for 2hnd Frost through highmaul, and then became the best for 2hnd frost in Mythic HFC on certain fights (Fel lord and robot boss) once u got ring

It was the best for Unholy from mid highmaul till Legion

It was the best for For blood from BRF till Legion

its been a relatively top talent for a very long time actually.

[Hoeth]

It was the best for 2hnd Frost through highmaul, and then became the best for 2hnd frost in Mythic HFC on certain fights (Fel lord and robot boss) once u got ring

It was the best for Unholy from mid highmaul till Legion

It was the best for For blood from BRF till Legion

its been a relatively top talent for a very long time actually.

Not for frost though. It was beyond terrible for DW all of WoD, and 2h was barely serviceable as a damage spec after Highmaul.

The only raid tier where it was clearly the go to talent/build for frost was Nighthold.

[Schizoide]

Due to the management and attention overhead required to use it properly, BoS should always be the best talent in its tier. It deserves it. But the fact that it's the best performing option by design doesn't in any way justify making it baseline.

The whole point of the talent system is players get to choose. Do you want to trade-off a bit of sustained performance for flexibility, or movement, or burst? Do you simply enjoy playing one talent over another? Those should all be valid decisions, and they are when the three choices in a tier are properly balanced. The problem with BoS isn't that it's historically been the best performing talent in its tier, the problem is the degree to which it's outperformed its competitors. And now that it looks to be 3-4% ahead best-case scenario, we're approaching where it should be.

[Schizoide]

Yep. Completely agree.

[Raugnaut]

You consider the time between the opening of Nighthold to the present as "forever?"

It was top talent in WoD too.