Frost 7.3

[Super Kami Dende]

Your % of damage done by Breath wont change near this much when it goes live, so this simply isn't true at all. It also doesn't change the fact no spec has ever gotten this large of a straight %buff before, and still warrants my claim that blizzard is very bad at their job.

The Uptime will nearly half though. Whilst I agree our other Moves needed a buff, the 27% isn't as big as people are making it out to be when you factor in the reasons why.

[Deleted]

Did some testing on the PTR, the spec feels extremly slow now. Outside of the ~25 second Breath i feel like im constantly rune and RP starved.

12%Haste, Chest/Bracers,

No shit, any spec would feel slow with 12% haste.

[Deleted]

No shit, any spec would feel slow with 12% haste.

12% haste is absolutly fine for live with all ressource generating Talents still working / being unnerfed. Haste still sims lower than mastery and crit for me and the spec does not feel slow.

[Ashaeron]

12% haste is absolutly fine for live with all ressource generating Talents still working / being unnerfed. Haste still sims lower than mastery and crit for me and the spec does not feel slow.

I'd say you probably have some dead gcd's though, which you don't ever want. What ilvl are you running at, and what talents? Because this seems terribly wrong.

[Deleted]

I'd say you probably have some dead gcd's though, which you don't ever want. What ilvl are you running at, and what talents? Because this seems terribly wrong.

Nothing is 'terribly wrong' about a dead gcd now and then. Stacking haste to achieve being gcd-locked is nothing to aim for, e.g. there are no haste breakpoints.

Im currently locked out in Tank gear, but my frost gear is ~930, and im running the Standard BoS Build with HoW, Chest and Bracers. As soon as im home i gladly post my current stat weights here. Even with low haste, haste sims lower than some of the other secondaries, depending on current Distribution.

[Deleted]

In general it is better to equip higher ilvl. If you got e.g. 915 haste boots and 925 boots withput haste, you always pick the highest. Rings and necks are different.

Drop luck might lead to 12% haste being your best setup. I have some haste items and am at 19% although i ignore haste.

[Skillslam]

How is frost going to look in comparison to the other classes now?

[Icedcoffeee]

More Frost Changes:

"Inexorable Assault updated to: "While in combat with no enemy within 8 yards, you gain Inexorable Assault every 1 sec. Each stack causes your next autoattack to deal [100%AP] additional Frost damage."

The third talent, this iteration, will be a version of Volatile Shielding that increases AMS's absorb and RP generation (and nothing else). In keeping with IA--we're experimenting a bit with allowing some damage payoff in a "utility" row in the case of a spec like Frost that isn't getting strong movement bonuses."

This feels like a go-live Tier 75. We've got the movement fight option, the stationary AMS soak option, and the pure survivability option. No pure mobility, but that just doesn't seem to be in the cards.

[RuneDK]

12% haste is absolutly fine for live with all ressource generating Talents still working / being unnerfed. Haste still sims lower than mastery and crit for me and the spec does not feel slow.

Right now yes, but come 7.3, the value of haste SHOULD increase. We'll see though, still have about two months til 7.3 releases.

- - - Updated - - -

More Frost Changes:

"Inexorable Assault updated to: "While in combat with no enemy within 8 yards, you gain Inexorable Assault every 1 sec. Each stack causes your next autoattack to deal [100%AP] additional Frost damage."

The third talent, this iteration, will be a version of Volatile Shielding that increases AMS's absorb and RP generation (and nothing else). In keeping with IA--we're experimenting a bit with allowing some damage payoff in a "utility" row in the case of a spec like Frost that isn't getting strong movement bonuses."

This feels like a go-live Tier 75. We've got the movement fight option, the stationary AMS soak option, and the pure survivability option. No pure mobility, but that just doesn't seem to be in the cards.

They won't address the mobility this expansion or potentially ever...they like the fantasy of our class being slow and inevitable death.....the problem that they don't realize is that it's causing other issues within the spec in pve. I won't even begin to talk pvp.

[Baddok21]

More Frost Changes:

"Inexorable Assault updated to: "While in combat with no enemy within 8 yards, you gain Inexorable Assault every 1 sec. Each stack causes your next autoattack to deal [100%AP] additional Frost damage."

The third talent, this iteration, will be a version of Volatile Shielding that increases AMS's absorb and RP generation (and nothing else). In keeping with IA--we're experimenting a bit with allowing some damage payoff in a "utility" row in the case of a spec like Frost that isn't getting strong movement bonuses."

This feels like a go-live Tier 75. We've got the movement fight option, the stationary AMS soak option, and the pure survivability option. No pure mobility, but that just doesn't seem to be in the cards.

I think the problem Blizzard has not realized or addressed and this has been the case since MoP

Whenever your spec/class is given a weakness, there is no inexplicable strength given with it, or in the case of some specs there simply is no weakness.

The highest DPS specs right now are actually the most mobile, have the best raid survivability AND have good raid Utility they also have top tier single target, AoE and Cleave DPS specs. In fairness i dont mind DK mobility because my natural assumption is that there will be a very clear strength in exchange for this very clear weakness. However with Blizzard track record i cant in good conscience argue that position because i know there is never really a good tradeoff for that and spec/class weaknesses become disadvantages for the pure sake of having a disadvantage.

I still remember when they removed DA and we had no movement ability at all for a while on BETA we didnt actually get one till 2 days after somoene playing a DK was actively crying during there dungeon challenge live stream how she could not keep up with her group at all, coincidentally Wraith walk was announced and implemented 2 days later. Im pretty sure many of you remember that as well.

[Deleted]

Right now yes, but come 7.3, the value of haste SHOULD increase. We'll see though, still have about two months til 7.3 releases.

That was my original point. With this gear on the PTR, the spec is way too slow and we definitly need more haste as soon as 7.3 goes live.

Just checked my weights, with a new item im down to 9,71% haste and haste still is siming slighly below crit, but above mastery now.

[Hctaz]

More Frost Changes:

"Inexorable Assault updated to: "While in combat with no enemy within 8 yards, you gain Inexorable Assault every 1 sec. Each stack causes your next autoattack to deal [100%AP] additional Frost damage."

The third talent, this iteration, will be a version of Volatile Shielding that increases AMS's absorb and RP generation (and nothing else). In keeping with IA--we're experimenting a bit with allowing some damage payoff in a "utility" row in the case of a spec like Frost that isn't getting strong movement bonuses."

This feels like a go-live Tier 75. We've got the movement fight option, the stationary AMS soak option, and the pure survivability option. No pure mobility, but that just doesn't seem to be in the cards.

Ooh I dunno. Volatile Shielding might be the go-to for Breath depending on how much extra RP generation we're talking.

[Baddok21]

i know HRW + BOS at this point is just temporary but after the 7.3 fix HRW feels like such trash

[Schizoide]

They won't address the mobility this expansion or potentially ever...they like the fantasy of our class being slow and inevitable death.....

I've been saying that since the expansion's launch. It's why I switched mains from DK after so many years. But the thing is, we were both wrong. They are addressing it. This patch, in fact. They just aren't doing it in a way that either of us actually want.

This is pretty common for Blizzard when they really dig their teeth in on a design concept. Remember back when they were adamant about never allowing players to fly again? Their response to upset players was "how can we make not flying better?" Same thing here. "How can we make slow runspeed better?" This just pissed off people already upset about the issue.

So they're exploring various approaches, doing whatever they can while avoiding fixing the root of the problem-- which isn't really that slow runspeed hurts your DPS, although it does, any more that not flying isn't really about convenience, although it is less convenient. The root of the problem is that it feels bad.

Sometimes this squirrely process has led to brilliant design. Frost DKs had ridiculous 45%+ wait times in the beginning of WoD. This felt terrible. In Legion, the melee GCD scales with haste, which fixed most of the problem. But that fix was obvious and I've been campaigning for it for the better part of a decade (as have many others, like I said-- obvious). The brilliant design was Frozen Pulse, which made time spent on resources feel much less punishing.

[Neeklus]

Dunno if this has been noted yet:
Icy Talons Frost Strike also increases your melee attack speed by 12% (down from 15%) for 6 sec, stacking up to 3 times. Frost Death Knight - Level 56 Talent.

With all the changes, re-arranging of talents etc, I'm really not sure now what we're supposed to be doing come the patch.

[Hoeth]

Dunno if this has been noted yet:
Icy Talons Frost Strike also increases your melee attack speed by 12% (down from 15%) for 6 sec, stacking up to 3 times. Frost Death Knight - Level 56 Talent.

With all the changes, re-arranging of talents etc, I'm really not sure now what we're supposed to be doing come the patch.

I have my doubts that the developers know what they want us to be doing.

[RuneDK]

Dunno if this has been noted yet:
Icy Talons Frost Strike also increases your melee attack speed by 12% (down from 15%) for 6 sec, stacking up to 3 times. Frost Death Knight - Level 56 Talent.

With all the changes, re-arranging of talents etc, I'm really not sure now what we're supposed to be doing come the patch.

BoS will still be the top dog most likely...but they're giving us options now...which can be a good thing if done right...or it can fail colossally like enhancement when they did the same thing there.

[Baddok21]

I've been saying that since the expansion's launch. It's why I switched mains from DK after so many years. But the thing is, we were both wrong. They are addressing it. This patch, in fact. They just aren't doing it in a way that either of us actually want.

This is pretty common for Blizzard when they really dig their teeth in on a design concept. Remember back when they were adamant about never allowing players to fly again? Their response to upset players was "how can we make not flying better?" Same thing here. "How can we make slow runspeed better?" This just pissed off people already upset about the issue.

So they're exploring various approaches, doing whatever they can while avoiding fixing the root of the problem-- which isn't really that slow runspeed hurts your DPS, although it does, any more that not flying isn't really about convenience, although it is less convenient. The root of the problem is that it feels bad.

Sometimes this squirrely process has led to brilliant design. Frost DKs had ridiculous 45%+ wait times in the beginning of WoD. This felt terrible. In Legion, the melee GCD scales with haste, which fixed most of the problem. But that fix was obvious and I've been campaigning for it for the better part of a decade (as have many others, like I said-- obvious). The brilliant design was Frozen Pulse, which made time spent on resources feel much less punishing.

If you were driving down an inexplicably long stretch of road, and on that stretch of road there was no gas/fuel station and you wrote to Blizzard saying "can you put one or two gas stations along X road there is none in the vicinity and many people are being stranded because there tanks are running empty".

now the obvious solution would be to build a gas station 1 or 2 to alleviate/remove this issue, but thats not what blizzard would do.

1) First they would try and find out "just why, people actually need to drive down this road"
2) can we design a car with better fuel efficiency to make it down this road without hitting empty
3) can we design vehicle that runs on other sources of fuel that can make it down this road
4) should we build a town somewhere along this road so people who are "stranded" have a place they can sleep and eat (Note: this town will purposely not have a gas station, so there's no admission of being wrong)
5) can we design smoother roads that will slightly reduce the fuel consumption of vehicle running on it

now because blizzard take's this approach they might end up building the "town of the future" and designing a vehicle that runs on dirt and also make a addon for normal vehicles to extend there fuel effeciency by 35%.

and all of this will take 5x more time and development resources than simply putting the damn gas station on the highway, BUT GOD DAMN IT THEY GOT A POINT TO PROVE AND THEY WONT REST UNTIL ITS PROVEN!

PS: next expansion they will tear down the "town of the future" remove the chip that makes your car 35% more effecient and shutdown the plant that makes cars that run on dirt... why? because there going to try a whole new solution.

meanwhile your sitting there saying "just give me back DA" and "make Obliterae do some frost dmg"... simple shit

[Schizoide]

Pretty much, yep!

[Baddok21]

Pretty much, yep!

Was a long analogy but im at work and it reminds me of 3 different times i had worked for a marketing manager who was the new hire, they would never choose the straight forward solution as that would (i guess) diminish the usefulness of there job ("i mean anyone could have come up with this why are we paying you!?"), instead they would have these elaborate untested machinations and devote endless amounts of company resources always going over budget to get there idea to work.