[Guide] Tumna's and Notter 7.2.5 Assassination Guide

[Deleted]

Really cool guide, thanks for the hard work. The tips and tricks is really useful! Cheers

[Dunderstudy]

@Notter How viable is it to use the vanish bug macro around low energy with full dots up (as well as ceaseless toxins) and stalk around in stealth until your around full energy? I've been experimenting with that and it seems ok but I can't use an old war pot with it. It probably isn't viable on BL on pull fights.

[Notter]

@Notter How viable is it to use the vanish bug macro around low energy with full dots up (as well as ceaseless toxins) and stalk around in stealth until your around full energy? I've been experimenting with that and it seems ok but I can't use an old war pot with it. It probably isn't viable on BL on pull fights.

I don't see why would you want to waste auto attacks and chances for poison procs

[Eazy]

@Notter I have a few question:

1. Why it's Prolonger Power better than Potion of the Old War? I had higher bursts with the second one.
(or prolonger power is just better because it gives stable DPS buff?)

2. I didn't see anything about Surge of Toxins, I think that ability is kinda usefull, I'm usually trying to use Envenom with SOT up
(I'm focusing on this actually more than on the Envenom buff - because it has shorter duration).

3. The opener I was using and which was proposed on the last Assassination guide(from discord) was going like this:
Garrote + Mutilate -> Rupture
Toxic Blades + Kingsbade -> Vendetta -> Envenom
Vanish
Mutilate -> Envenom
Mutilate -> Envenom
The one you proposed is better?

That's all. If I find anything more I'll give you a message.
PS. Awesome guide, it's nice to have it updated(I mean for 7.2.5) I'll put it on the first page of the Assassination - Legion Discussion.

[Deleted]

'Single Target opener with shoulder and subterfuge'

I've just tested it, doesnt work for me. I end up having 3CP's before Vanish, thus it doesnt make sense to vanish / envenom. The only thing that works for me is, when i swap KB with TB, then i sometimes get the KB initial into mantle with 3CPs and can use TB for the 4th CP to be ready for vanish/envenom. But it is so fucking tight, that i dont even get it in all scenarios.

I even tested it with a castsequence macro when you just spam one button, no way.

e: Tumna's opener works tho. I prefer early KB in opener anyway, so that one is fine. But you have to add a garrote after Vanish of course.

[Dunderstudy]

You'd be extending the crit window by a good margin but your right about the poison procs.

[Notter]

@Notter I have a few question:

1. Why it's Prolonger Power better than Potion of the Old War? I had higher bursts with the second one.
(or prolonger power is just better because it gives stable DPS buff?)

2. I didn't see anything about Surge of Toxins, I think that ability is kinda usefull, I'm usually trying to use Envenom with SOT up
(I'm focusing on this actually more than on the Envenom buff - because it has shorter duration).

3. The opener I was using and which was proposed on the last Assassination guide(from discord) was going like this:
Garrote + Mutilate -> Rupture
Toxic Blades + Kingsbade -> Vendetta -> Envenom
Vanish
Mutilate -> Envenom
Mutilate -> Envenom
The one you proposed is better?

1. Prolonged just sims better.
Old war might give better results with Bleed build, but since i recommend the poison build, i also recommend using prolonged.
The extra mastery for sin is an exponential dps increase.

2. you might have missed this in the rotation section:
"It is also important to use a finisher at 4.9sec or below remaining on KB, as your Surge of Toxins will have a big affect on the strong last ticks."
SoT Does not affect envenom damage.

3. The change to the opener was made following the change to Mantle of the master Assassin.
But as a whole, it acttualy doesn't matter, as the difference in DPS is really small.
I proposed what I found that works best for me.

- - - Updated - - -

'Single Target opener with shoulder and subterfuge'

I've just tested it, doesnt work for me. I end up having 3CP's before Vanish, thus it doesnt make sense to vanish / envenom. The only thing that works for me is, when i swap KB with TB, then i sometimes get the KB initial into mantle with 3CPs and can use TB for the 4th CP to be ready for vanish/envenom. But it is so fucking tight, that i dont even get it in all scenarios.

I even tested it with a castsequence macro when you just spam one button, no way.

I don't know what to tell you man, it does work, you're the first person to say it doesn't, and i have been talking to dozens of people.
I suspect that you're not waiting to get a free GCD before vanish>Envenom.

But if you find the KB opener works better for you, by all means use it. That's why we wrote more options.

[Eazy]

1. Prolonged just sims better.
Old war might give better results with Bleed build, but since i recommend the poison build, i also recommend using prolonged.
The extra mastery for sin is an exponential dps increase.

Okay, will check it.

2. you might have missed this in the rotation section:
"It is also important to use a finisher at 4.9sec or below remaining on KB, as your Surge of Toxins will have a big affect on the strong last ticks."
SoT Does not affect envenom damage.

My whole Legion life was a lie... Thanks for pointing that out.

3. The change to the opener was made following the change to Mantle of the master Assassin.
But as a whole, it acttualy doesn't matter, as the difference in DPS is really small.
I proposed what I found that works best for me.

Same as first point, will check it out probably even in tonight raid and will give you feedback. Cheers.

[Deleted]

1. Prolonged just sims better.
Old war might give better results with Bleed build, but since i recommend the poison build, i also recommend using prolonged.
The extra mastery for sin is an exponential dps increase.

2. you might have missed this in the rotation section:
"It is also important to use a finisher at 4.9sec or below remaining on KB, as your Surge of Toxins will have a big affect on the strong last ticks."
SoT Does not affect envenom damage.

3. The change to the opener was made following the change to Mantle of the master Assassin.
But as a whole, it acttualy doesn't matter, as the difference in DPS is really small.
I proposed what I found that works best for me.

- - - Updated - - -



I don't know what to tell you man, it does work, you're the first person to say it doesn't, and i have been talking to dozens of people.
I suspect that you're not waiting to get a free GCD before vanish>Envenom.

But if you find the KB opener works better for you, by all means use it. That's why we wrote more options.

Maybe it was a bit ambiguous what i wrote @ Notter, of course it works but i dont feel it is effective since

"Garrote -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Mutilate -> Vendetta -> Envenom ->Toxic Blade -> Kingsbane"

This whole part didnt fit into mantle's window thus i ended up having just 3 CP's before Vanish and you suggest to Envenom after Vanish. Maybe there is something i am missing on and i will give it another try later. But as i said, i even put the first part into a castsequence macro when i had to press just one button (as a side note i dont use castsequence macros for openers) and still i didnt manage to get 4-5 CP's before Vanish cause of that missing second.

[Notter]

Maybe it was a bit ambiguous what i wrote @ Notter, of course it works but i dont feel it is effective since

"Garrote -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Mutilate -> Vendetta -> Envenom ->Toxic Blade -> Kingsbane"

This whole part didnt fit into mantle's window thus i ended up having just 3 CP's before Vanish and you suggest to Envenom after Vanish. Maybe there is something i am missing on and i will give it another try later. But as i said, i even put the first part into a castsequence macro when i had to press just one button (as a side note i dont use castsequence macros for openers) and still i didnt manage to get 4-5 CP's before Vanish cause of that missing second.

yeah you're right, thank you for pointing it out
basically what i do is i dropped the mut and envenom from the vanish

but this might not be ideal, so i gotta double check this

[Zulmaan]

I stand by what i wrote.
I run sims usually daily, not weekly, and keep up to date on what is best.

I don't deny that it might be better for your character, and that is why i urge people to run sims themselves.
I simply state what is considered best.

But just to prove the point, i tried simming your suggestions:

AMR
Tier cloak - http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...91bd2b7374ea0b
Tier Helm - http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...cd38db95cc505b
12k dps decrease

SimC
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...PgZpwSw1x8uwAa
10k dps decrease


I do appreciate suggestions though.
but I don't base my finding on opinion.

neither do I...therefore I clarified that my sims weren't up to date and I just wanted to give something to think about...maybe that was not clear enough
anyhow I simmed it again with t20M and it confirms your results...now I wonder why the default gear from simulationcraft.org contains the worse variant

[Notter]

@Aurellio

I've updated the openers to make sure they have 5 GCDs at the start

[Deleted]

If i use the opener garrote-mutilate-rup-vendetta-kb-tb-vanish-evenom etc where should i fit in my Spector? And outside the opener when it is best time to use it? on cd or?

[Tyrarolls]

on cd..right from the start i guess

[Notter]

If i use the opener garrote-mutilate-rup-vendetta-kb-tb-vanish-evenom etc where should i fit in my Spector? And outside the opener when it is best time to use it? on cd or?

Doesn't really matter, since afaik, nothing assassination does, increases specter's damage.
just make sure not to miss specter's casts, and that the boss is on top of it

[Deleted]

@Aurellio

I've updated the openers to make sure they have 5 GCDs at the start

Nice, thumbs up.

on cd..right from the start i guess

Does it not even benefit from mantle?

[Tyrarolls]

it does..thats why you use it in the start aswell..

[Twix]

Is it okay to use abilities such as Kingsbane, Toxic Blade or Garrote when you have 4 combo points?

[Tyrarolls]

Notter probably has the theorycrafting answer.
The feelycraft answer would be:
Garrote at 4 cp shouldnt be a dps loss (i guess its a slightly dps increase if you garrote at 4 cp)
Toxic Blade is fine at 4 Cp cause you followup Envenom
For KB i'd do 4cp Envenom followed by KB.

[Avengerx]

Great guide there guys.

Erm first very noobish question, what is the vanish bug? (Don't have the shoulders so never really bothered to look it up :P)
Second noobish question, during mantle effect you just spam things right? Don't care about SoT "unoptimal" refresh time.

With the non-shoulder / nightstalker rotation:
"Garrote -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Mutilate to 4-5 -> Envenom -> Vendetta ->Toxic Blade -> Kingsbane"

Wouldn't it be better to Envenom after Vendetta? Also, if you are using Toxic Blade and KB after each other, isn't it better to start with KB and then TB for increased tick damage?

@Twix
Garrote will always give you 1 cp, whereas afaik both KB and TB can crit on initial hit ang give you 2 cp's thus wasting one if you are at 4. So I think optimally you should garrote at 4 but not TB,KB.