1. #4421
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    There is zero difference between popping it at 1 stacks versus 18 stacks in terms of insanity.
    Is there breakpoints in terms of ticks on VT or is it the same no matter what haste you are at? Anyone actually done math on it, or is it simply such a small difference between 1 stack and 50 stacks that its not worth spending time on?

  2. #4422
    It's a small difference that's it's not worth spending the time on.

  3. #4423
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    I can shed some light on the reasons to use VT at 18 stacks.
    Void Torrent scales very good with haste. Using it at the start lets you use it at max lingering stacks for all future void forms.

  4. #4424
    Quote Originally Posted by Jullyx View Post
    Void Torrent scales very good with haste. Using it at the start lets you use it at max lingering stacks for all future void forms.
    I mean sure, but you also get haste from the voidform itself. It's not like I'm using it at that point. Just explaining why someone would.

  5. #4425
    Using VT as early as possible is also good since now with t20p4 u can get 2 VT in 1st VF. Tho sometimes it requires using dispersion. At least i have to. Maybe Im just bad.

  6. #4426
    Quote Originally Posted by Biosync View Post
    Using VT as early as possible is also good since now with t20p4 u can get 2 VT in 1st VF. Tho sometimes it requires using dispersion. At least i have to. Maybe Im just bad.
    You should generally not do this though as it will make your void forms out of sync.

  7. #4427
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    You should generally not do this though as it will make your void forms out of sync.
    Having dot's on multiple mobs usually help reach 2nd void torrent, and I think it's beneficial to extend voidform as much as possible when you have multiple dot's ticking. On single target I do not bother with 2 torrents.

  8. #4428
    So I have the sentinel medaillon (the owl) trinket, the haste where you can't move for it to stacks trinket and the "i'm sending blades that aggro everything" from the Host trinket.

    Which ones should I use ? They're all at the same ilvl.

    I was thinking the haste one + owl for ST and haste one + sword for aoe/cleave ? but not sure.

    cheers
    _____________________

    Homophobia is so gay.

  9. #4429
    Quote Originally Posted by Agness View Post
    Having dot's on multiple mobs usually help reach 2nd void torrent, and I think it's beneficial to extend voidform as much as possible when you have multiple dot's ticking. On single target I do not bother with 2 torrents.
    It means you won't have void torrent for the second void form, screwing up your timings- I guess if you consistantly get 60+ stacks it can work but often it will not be worth doing outside of your very last void form.

  10. #4430
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    So I have the sentinel medaillon (the owl) trinket, the haste where you can't move for it to stacks trinket and the "i'm sending blades that aggro everything" from the Host trinket.

    Which ones should I use ? They're all at the same ilvl.

    I was thinking the haste one + owl for ST and haste one + sword for aoe/cleave ? but not sure.

    cheers
    I'm using Thurible + Medallion right now. When I get the Terror trinket from Mistress I equip that in place of the Medallion for AoE/Cleave fights. I was using Rising Tide with Thurible before I got Medallion. It wasn't bad, but definitely feel like it gave less benefit than the Medallion does.

    I also just recently got the KJ trinket from my mission cache as well. I've heard that is pretty decent if you trigger it on an add that's nearly dead for an extended duration of +Crit, but haven't tried it.

  11. #4431
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Caladia View Post
    I also just recently got the KJ trinket from my mission cache as well. I've heard that is pretty decent if you trigger it on an add that's nearly dead for an extended duration of +Crit, but haven't tried it.
    3k crit is not much, you're better off using the trinket for its damage at around 30 stacks of vf, it'll do a nice amount of damage (~2M for me) and you'll have the crit for the end of your void form.

  12. #4432
    So with getting closer to the 930 mark shadow feels more and more weird to me.

    I have played priest as my main since TBC, but have had my tiers of healing in between when it was needed, but the one thing with shadow this expansion is that it seems we are scaling backwards.

    The more gear we get, the longer void forms we get and with t20, even more so. That means that the build up time gets longer. While every other class, apart from possibly affliction, goes straight out at the start, but for me personally it seems that it takes longer and longer to reach that point for every gear piece there is.

    With the shadow orb system with Devouring plague, at least we had a fixed set of globals before we got to the "real" dps phase, but this expansion it seems to go later and later into the fight.

  13. #4433
    Deleted
    I don't play shadow that much, but I noticed something that seems like a bug. I'm specced in misery and when I use void bolt to refresh dots, SW:P only refreshes to 5 seconds. So basically I have to manually SW:P so it doesn't drop off if I don't void bolt on CD at some point in particular.

    Is this a known issue?

  14. #4434
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangomah View Post
    So with getting closer to the 930 mark shadow feels more and more weird to me.

    I have played priest as my main since TBC, but have had my tiers of healing in between when it was needed, but the one thing with shadow this expansion is that it seems we are scaling backwards.

    The more gear we get, the longer void forms we get and with t20, even more so. That means that the build up time gets longer. While every other class, apart from possibly affliction, goes straight out at the start, but for me personally it seems that it takes longer and longer to reach that point for every gear piece there is.

    With the shadow orb system with Devouring plague, at least we had a fixed set of globals before we got to the "real" dps phase, but this expansion it seems to go later and later into the fight.
    one of the only things I actually like about current shadow is how everybody goes down while we keep climbing

  15. #4435
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangomah View Post
    So with getting closer to the 930 mark shadow feels more and more weird to me.

    I have played priest as my main since TBC, but have had my tiers of healing in between when it was needed, but the one thing with shadow this expansion is that it seems we are scaling backwards.

    The more gear we get, the longer void forms we get and with t20, even more so. That means that the build up time gets longer. While every other class, apart from possibly affliction, goes straight out at the start, but for me personally it seems that it takes longer and longer to reach that point for every gear piece there is.

    With the shadow orb system with Devouring plague, at least we had a fixed set of globals before we got to the "real" dps phase, but this expansion it seems to go later and later into the fight.
    I don't understand.

    You get more gear = you have a higher ramp up time ? Wut ?

    You get more gear = you can stay in VF longer = you do more damag = you do even more damage from better gear = win

    Or am i missing something ?
    _____________________

    Homophobia is so gay.

  16. #4436
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    I don't understand.

    You get more gear = you have a higher ramp up time ? Wut ?

    You get more gear = you can stay in VF longer = you do more damag = you do even more damage from better gear = win

    Or am i missing something ?
    At the end of the day, damage will be nerfed/buffed per patch for specs that don't fall in line regardless of playstyle. The current shadow mechanics is known to scale very well and we have had our dots/set pieces/legendaries nerfed almost every patch so far. But our actual stats (haste/crit) grows and thus playstyle continues to evolve with gear. It is common to reach ~55 stacks of VF every cycle now, when just the previous tier this was barely reachable with PI and on every other cycle.

    Our VF cycle continues to grow longer, but you don't get to keep the exceptional growth in damage as you gear up. Patch nerfs and indirect nerfs via buffs to other specs ensure this.
    This is most obviously seen with KJ, where we need such a long cycle that our damage suffers in P1/P2.
    Eventually, we are going to need 70s/80s/90s? to reach our peak state and our damage will keep getting put in line with the rest. Is there any difference if we could only maintain 30s of VF and do the same damage than maintain 60s?
    The "You get more gear = you can stay in VF longer = you do more damag" only works if devs don't interfere with scaling every patch, which is unlikely.

  17. #4437
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    I don't understand.

    You get more gear = you have a higher ramp up time ? Wut ?

    You get more gear = you can stay in VF longer = you do more damag = you do even more damage from better gear = win

    Or am i missing something ?
    One of the ways that gear increases your DPS is by making your Voidforms longer. This changes the timing window of when you hit your peak damage. Other classes largely do not have that issue. Shit, if you lust at the start, the peak of your Voidform won't even be inside Bloodlust any more because of this.

    It's just another manifestation of how Shadow is a weird, over-wrought, over-designed spec. Blizzard needs to burn the thing to the ground and start from scratch to make a straight-forward, sensible DoT spec that doesn't have so many design pitfalls (like, say, S2M).

  18. #4438
    But if our VF is longer... wouldn't it mean we do more dps ?

    I'm sorry... i've been sick for a week so I think I am really missing something.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh I understand it a little better now that I've seen worcester's post.

    I doubt we'll see big changes, like a complete overhaul... because the next in line is warlocks (again), especially demonology. I'm pretty sure survival hunter will get reworked too.
    _____________________

    Homophobia is so gay.

  19. #4439
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    I don't understand.

    You get more gear = you have a higher ramp up time ? Wut ?

    You get more gear = you can stay in VF longer = you do more damag = you do even more damage from better gear = win

    Or am i missing something ?
    Maybe I explained it poorly.

    The thing is. Void form is time based correct? So getting gear, or in terms of the t20 set bonus makes reaching your dmg potential takes longer in terms of seconds.

    If our absolute top pre t20 is 45 stacks (tpo pick a number), it takes 45 seconds to get there. lets then say that we are comparable to other classes at 25 stacks. so with ramp up time it takes 5 seconds (to get enough insanity to pop vf) and then 25 seconds to get to the point of where the other classes are all the time.

    With t20 our median is suddenly 40 stacks, meaning it takes 45 seconds to reach a balanced number. It pushes our void form top stack to 55-60, but if we compare to other classes, it takes longer to reach the same point where other classes have stable power throughout most of the fight.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the spriest playstyle and I'm sticking too it, but its still weird design to me.

  20. #4440
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    But if our VF is longer... wouldn't it mean we do more dps ?

    I'm sorry... i've been sick for a week so I think I am really missing something.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh I understand it a little better now that I've seen worcester's post.

    I doubt we'll see big changes, like a complete overhaul... because the next in line is warlocks (again), especially demonology. I'm pretty sure survival hunter will get reworked too.
    Yeah, survival is.. not good. They need to call a mulligan and turn that back into a ranged spec in 8.0.

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