Town Petitions to replace Confederate Monument with Manatee Memorial

[Mormolyce]

they should make a statue of Harambe instead, it would be much more meaningful. or Cecil the lion.

Who cares about a stupid manatee? or are they making a tribute to the family guy creators?

Who cares about a bunch of dead slavers?

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To remind us we kicked the shit out of them.

How about they replace the monument with a statue of Uncle Sam curb stomping a plantation owner while some slaves break their chains and cheer?

[Jastall]

Not a part of American history. Just another roach we stepped on.

Civil war had a far bigger impact on the history of our nation.

The 9/11 attacks are inarguably the most important event in US history since the fall of the Soviet Union, if not arguably Vietnam or WW2. So while I don't actually think the statues should be removed (not gonna cry over it tho), that is a poor argument.

[Tackhisis]

That is a disturbing trend. The monuments of Confederate heroes are important for reconciliation of the North and the South.

[Jtbrig7390]

That is a disturbing trend. The monuments of Confederate heroes are important for reconciliation of the North and the South.

There is no such thing as "Confederate Heroes", They was slavers nothing more.

There should be no monuments of traitors.

[Dalistar]

Some did, some didn't. I'm not about to fall into the trap of "OMG all the southern guys were bad guys and ZOMG OMG" that a lot of non civil war buffs seem to do. Its about as annoying as the Lost Cause type of people.

I just disagree with removing historical shit just because some people don't like the history involved, especially when most individuals were shades of grey.

Yeah except the civil war wasn't shades of grey. It's simple why it was fought, we all know it. I know southern states want to re-write history and say it was about the evil federal government trying to squash their state rights. Their state rights to own slaves. If you were black would you feel great about walking in a park seeing a statue of a confederate general like Stonewall Jackson and telling your child that a slave owner is someone we build monuments too? Would you think the same way if someone who had family that were Nazi's wanted to put up a statue to honor them?

I know the next remarks here will be "Not all the soldiers fighting for the south owned slaves." You would be right but they fought for a cause that wanted to have the right to own slaves. If you think slavery wasn't brutal I suggest you open a book and really understand how awful it was and how after the civil war we saw the rise of the KKK led by former confederate officers and soldiers who the south wants to honor.

[Crissi]

Yeah except the civil war wasn't shades of grey. It's simple why it was fought, we all know it. I know southern states want to re-write history and say it was about the evil federal government trying to squash their state rights. Their state rights to own slaves. If you were black would you feel great about walking in a park seeing a statue of a confederate general like Stonewall Jackson and telling your child that a slave owner is someone we build monuments too? Would you think the same way if someone who had family that were Nazi's wanted to put up a statue to honor them?

I know the next remarks here will be "Not all the soldiers fighting for the south owned slaves." You would be right but they fought for a cause that wanted to have the right to own slaves. If you think slavery wasn't brutal I suggest you open a book and really understand how awful it was and how after the civil war we saw the rise of the KKK led by former confederate officers and soldiers who the south wants to honor.

Trust me, I know all this. I've only been studying it for 20 years and all. The cause wasn't grey, but the people involved generally were shades of it. You're not going to find too many historians go "He owned slaves, AS SUCH HE WAS THE MOST TERRIBLEST PERSON OF ALL TIME"

Also Stonewall Jackson was a bit of a kickass general. He's really fun to study.

[Tackhisis]

There should be no monuments of traitors.

Sorry, you can't just call the half of your country "traitors". That is just insulting to their descendants.

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If you were black would you feel great about walking in a park seeing a statue of a confederate general like Stonewall Jackson and telling your child that a slave owner is someone we build monuments too?

Having owned slaves does not diminish a person.

[shimerra]

Sorry, you can't just call the half of your country "traitors". That is just insulting to their descendants.

Most of us are descendants are of traitors to the crown and being quite frank even most northerners had a pretty deplorable opinion of black people. Not sure what your safespace is all about broski. Point being is yes yes I can call their ancestors traitors because that's exactly what they were. Had they won history might feel differently.

Sometimes history's losers have kids. Doesn't change what their ancestors did or make them responsible for it. But when you idolize it and rationalize it to something it was not like trying to write out the fact slavery was the core reason for the war? You own that.

Having owned slaves does not diminish a person.

Yes. Yes it does. It is most certainly a black mark on their biography.

[Jtbrig7390]

Sorry, you can't just call the half of your country "traitors". That is just insulting to their descendants.

Yes I can call half the country (ancestors) traitor's because that's what they are. I didn't call there descendants traitors.

You don't get to change history because u don't like it.

Having owned slaves does not diminish a person.

Yes it does....

[kasuke06]

Yes I can call half the country (ancestors) traitor's because that's what they are. I didn't call there descendants traitors.

You don't get to change history because u don't like it.

Like tearing down a statue because you don't like it?

[Jtbrig7390]

Like tearing down a statue because you don't like it?

There should be no monuments of traitors, Would you be ok with someone making a monument to ISIS or Hitler?

[shrunken]

Good idea lets just pretend history didn't happen.

most kids don't get a real education regarding the civil war anymore, so pretending won't be much of a challenge.

[zephid]

Good idea lets just pretend history didn't happen.

Removing a statue is not "pretending history didn't happen".

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Sorry, you can't just call the half of your country "traitors". That is just insulting to their descendants.

You can if it's true, which it is. The south rebelled, making them traitors, that's just a fact. The same way the "american" people became traitors when they rebelled against Great Britain in 1775.

[kasuke06]

There should be no monuments of traitors, Would you be ok with someone making a monument to ISIS or Hitler?

neither of those are traitors. They're not very nice people, but your argument is factually wrong in calling them such. and I'd be surprised if people hadn't made monuments of those two.

[Travis B]

Having owned slaves does not diminish a person.

Wow, just when you think you've seen it all on MMOC.

[Jtbrig7390]

neither of those are traitors. They're not very nice people, but your argument is factually wrong in calling them such. and I'd be surprised if people hadn't made monuments of those two.

Those who fought for the south in the civil war are traitors, This isn't a opinion its fact.

If you are ok with someone having a monument for traitor's, Then u you are ok if someone made a monument for ISIS/Hitler.

Not saying those are traitors, all 3 groups are shit people is what I'm saying. None of those people should have monument's made for them.

[Tackhisis]

Yes. Yes it does. It is most certainly a black mark on their biography.

No, it is not. It makes zero sense to apply modern moral norms to the ancient times.

[kasuke06]

Those who fought for the south in the civil war are traitors, This isn't a opinion its fact.

If you are ok with someone having a monument for traitor's, Then u you are ok if someone made a monument for ISIS/Hitler.

Not saying those are traitors, all 3 groups are shit people is what I'm saying. None of those people should have monument's made for them.

really? Because it kind of seems more like your opinion. ISIS believes their particular interpretation of the quran is correct and is willing to do anything, including destroy themselves to show that theirs is the correct interpretation. Hitler genuinely wished well for the german people. The south fought to preserve their way of life which couldn't be supported without absolutely massive amounts of human capitol at dirt-cheap labor costs.

Do not mistake this as any type of support for what they did. The actions taken were/currently are monstrous.

The point is that "Every man is the hero of his own story." What is a terrible abuse of power to you, is comedy to another, and to yet another a just retribution to a given action.

[shimerra]

No, it is not. It makes zero sense to apply modern moral norms to the ancient times.

What an absolutely asinine and completely idiotic statement. It's one step short of saying we can't say nazis were evil shits because at the time it was okay to gas jews. Raping slaves or the conquered was a common tool of war. It was wrong then and it's wrong now even if at the time they felt it wasn't.

Even if you are incapable of it even children can easily see people did things in the past that are wrong while at the same time understanding why the context/time period explaining why they acted that way.

It makes zero sense to absolve historical figures of their character flaws just because it was a wide spread character flaw or understandable how it came about.

[Tackhisis]

It makes zero sense to absolve historical figures of their character flaws

Owning slaves is not a "character flaw". It is a form of society organization.

can easily see people did things in the past that are wrong

That are wrong now. What relation has the today's opinion for that time period? None.It

It was wrong then and it's wrong now even if at the time they felt it wasn't.

If they "felt it wasn't", it wasn't.