Possible future hero classes.

[Hitei]

As fun as it would be to see a gun-toting Tinker, the main problem with that concept is that such a class would also have to equip bows and x-bows. The mech concept simply works better because then the class could equip any weapon, and it would just operate as a stat-stick just like weapons in the Druid class.

Also the mech concept really sets the Tinker class apart from existing classes, yet stays true to the WC3 Tinker hero.

It's just kinda bulkier armor, tbh. The individual gadgets and weapons are the unique part of a Tinker, not the suit which is just there to bring tiny races in line with their towering, armored allies.

I seriously doubt you're going to see exploding chicken bombs or sheep. You're more likely to see beam weapons, missiles, machine guns, flame throwers, gravity weapons, robotics, and various types of explosives. There's probably going to be some melee attacks in there as well.

I don't know why you'd doubt that. Those are pretty classic gnome and goblin mechanicalcreations. The most recent "Tinker" NPC in the game with significant abilities, Millificent, uses Squirrel bombs, Rocket Chickens, finger lasers and a shrink ray. I know you really want to try and get away from Tinkers being a "silly" or "whimsical" class because you feel like that potentially harms the chances of it being implemented, but that's exactly what the class is: Whimsical. Even Gazlowe, who lacks abilities that are physically jokes, has jokey ability names. Gelbin's moment in the Broken Shore cinematic was the sole light-hearted part, the part where everyone smiles or chuckles.

[Darktbs]

WAAAAAAAT?!!!!A Mechanical class without exploding Chicken and Sheeps?!!!

FLOOP, 0/10, 0%, GARBAGE!!

[Teriz]

It's just kinda bulkier armor, tbh. The individual gadgets and weapons are the unique part of a Tinker, not the suit which is just there to bring tiny races in line with their towering, armored allies.

It also gives the class a more flexible method of gameplay, and sensible weapon deployment. It also adds an air of seriousness to the class, and people want to be able to pilot mechs into combat.

I don't know why you'd doubt that. Those are pretty classic gnome and goblin mechanicalcreations. The most recent "Tinker" NPC in the game with significant abilities, Millificent, uses Squirrel bombs, Rocket Chickens, finger lasers and a shrink ray. I know you really want to try and get away from Tinkers being a "silly" or "whimsical" class because you feel like that potentially harms the chances of it being implemented, but that's exactly what the class is: Whimsical. Even Gazlowe, who lacks abilities that are physically jokes, has jokey ability names. Gelbin's moment in the Broken Shore cinematic was the sole light-hearted part, the part where everyone smiles or chuckles.

I doubt it because you don't see such silly abilities in the WC3 Tinker or the updated HotS Tinker (though Pocket Factory comes very close). You also don't see silly abilities in the Gazlowe or Marin Shredder units, or with Siegecrafter Blackfuse. Also Endgineer Omegaplugg is just as recent as Millificent, has significant abilities, and they aren't silly. It appears that when these engineers are inside mechs, their abilities become a bit more serious, which is why I believe that Blizzard will go in that direction.

[Gyrotex]

Determining new classes should start with finding new archetypes that are underutilized...

Exactly what people should be doing.

And we don't need to go further than recent Reddit AMA with Warcraft Devs.

Specifically question about Warrior Gladiator stance - source: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._2017/djb2ms7/

To which they basically said:

"... We're cognizant of the fact that sword-and-board damage dealer isn't represented, but packaging it as a sub-spec that co-opted the existing tank fantasy wasn't the right way of delivering it."

This sounds an awful lot like whatever was said about Metamorphosis talent for Warlocks before Demon Hunters and Legion were announced.

In other words, my money is on some sort of sword and board damage dealer, possibly with 2nd spec that would be Healing.

[Jtree]

You can tell Teriz is still 'Dead Sea'-levels of salty about Demon Hunters.

ROFL! That's a phrase I'm gonna have to start using.

[Tech614]

No they can't. They can't even Dual Wield fist weapons anymore.



Holy Paladins can still equip a 1h weapon and a Shield.

Brewmaster lost the ability to equip 2 1h weapons at the same time.



I expect Brewmasters to have a semblance of some of their perks from previous expansions. Clearly there's only room for one dual wielding tank in WoW.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. I just equipped 2 1Hers on my brewmaster. Thanks for the laugh.

[Ielenia]

It also gives the class a more flexible method of gameplay, and sensible weapon deployment.

No, and no. It wouldn't add any new or even "flexible" method of gameplay. We've been over this. It's not just because it's many pages ago that you can forget you've been shown wrong and start all over. There is not a single aspect of gameplay that is exclusive to the mechanic theme or piloting mechs. And 'sensible weapon deployment'? What in the hells is that?

and people want to be able to pilot mechs into combat.

Do they? I mean, I know a few people do, but I'm not sure if it amounts to a meaningful enough number to warrant that.

I doubt it because you don't see such silly abilities in the WC3 Tinker or the updated HotS Tinker (though Pocket Factory comes very close).

Um... 'Pocket Factory' doesn't "come close". It dances over the line and then leap miles away past it. You drop an entire building that creates wrench-wielding robo-goblins that hop toward the closest enemy and explode. Also, look at the names of the HotS character: "rock-it! turret", "deth lazor", and even some of the talents, like "ez-pz dimensional ripper" and "firin' mah lazorz".

Also Endgineer Omegaplugg is just as recent as Millificent, has significant abilities, and they aren't silly.

Really? Constantly dropping bombs with legs is not "silly" to you?

It appears that when these engineers are inside mechs, their abilities become a bit more serious, which is why I believe that Blizzard will go in that direction.

Mekgineer Steamrigger has a shrink ray. Also, keeping up with Blizzard's desire for accessibility, it's unlikely that the class would use a mech so it wouldn't restrict the class to two of the most unpopular races in the game. Blizzard will make the class as accessible as possible, I predict at least three races per faction will be able to be the tech class, if it's ever implemented.

[Directionalk9]

Now the back and forth of "whimsical-ness" begins....if a tinker has no whimsy, I will not have a Tinker.

Technology in WoW especially the Gnome/Goblin variety is entirely based in the realm of whimsical....We strapped a mind-dished to raptors made them super intelligent and sent them to space to colonize a planet. Their mechs have faces on them Christ's sake.

Chicken Bombs or no deal.

Also I feel like Tinkers could be a gun spec and just one arm of the mech has it, maybe even visually the arm cannon of a mech has the gun doubled up. C'mon picture the right of arm of the mech having two Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyers, spraying bullets in the faces of gnolls.

[Teriz]

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. I just equipped 2 1Hers on my brewmaster. Thanks for the laugh.

Brewmaster changes:
Removed

Summon Black Ox Statue - Talent
Spinning Crane Kick - Windwalker & Mistweaver Only
Craft: Nimble Brew - PvP Honor Talent Only
Elusive Brew - Removed
Desperate Measures - Removed
Dual Wield - Windwalker Only
Dizzying Haze - Removed
Ferment - Removed
Guard - PvP Honor Talent Only
Legacy of the White Tiger - Removed
Stance of the Sturdy Ox - Removed

http://www.wowhead.com/guides/classes/legion/monk

- - - Updated - - -

No, and no. It wouldn't add any new or even "flexible" method of gameplay. We've been over this. It's not just because it's many pages ago that you can forget you've been shown wrong and start all over. There is not a single aspect of gameplay that is exclusive to the mechanic theme or piloting mechs. And 'sensible weapon deployment'? What in the hells is that?

Where did I say exclusivity? I said flexible because the mech concept allows the Tinker concept to be similar to the popular Druid concept. As I said before, it allows Tinkers to also get popular concepts like class-based mounts, and higher levels of class customization.

Do they? I mean, I know a few people do, but I'm not sure if it amounts to a meaningful enough number to warrant that.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...orged-Warframe

And keep in mind, the OP hates the Tinker concept.

Um... 'Pocket Factory' doesn't "come close". It dances over the line and then leap miles away past it. You drop an entire building that creates wrench-wielding robo-goblins that hop toward the closest enemy and explode. Also, look at the names of the HotS character: "rock-it! turret", "deth lazor", and even some of the talents, like "ez-pz dimensional ripper" and "firin' mah lazorz".

Which is still more serious than "Mechanized Squirrel Bombs" and "Thorium Rocket Chicken" which is a robotic chicken launching rockets at you.

That said, I doubt you'll see Pocket Factory in a WoW Tinker class. Blizzard replaced them with Rock-it Turrets.

Really? Constantly dropping bombs with legs is not "silly" to you?

Not as silly as the above, no.

Mekgineer Steamrigger has a shrink ray. Also, keeping up with Blizzard's desire for accessibility, it's unlikely that the class would use a mech so it wouldn't restrict the class to two of the most unpopular races in the game. Blizzard will make the class as accessible as possible, I predict at least three races per faction will be able to be the tech class, if it's ever implemented.

One "silly" ability out of several from a character way back in TBC. You've certainly made your point.

Nothing stops any player from rolling a Gnome or Goblin except their own personal tastes. A class concept shouldn't be compromised because people have childish hang ups.

[Directionalk9]

Nothing stops any player from rolling a Gnome or Goblin except their own personal tastes. A class concept shouldn't be compromised because people have childish hang ups.

That is single-handedly the weakest argument ever. Blizzard will implement a new class that they want players to play, but restrict it to the lowest played races, and their excuse will be, "don't be childish and play it"

Forcing players to play a race that isn't popular won't help the class (for the record if all races could play Tinker I would Goblin it). This is one Tinker hang-up you might have to part with.

[Teriz]

That is single-handedly the weakest argument ever. Blizzard will implement a new class that they want players to play, but restrict it to the lowest played races, and their excuse will be, "don't be childish and play it"

Forcing players to play a race that isn't popular won't help the class (for the record if all races could play Tinker I would Goblin it). This is one Tinker hang-up you might have to part with.

Blizzard will implement whatever they want. If they want to bring in the Tinker class, I think the class will be better served keeping it Goblins and Gnomes only. If they decide to go that route, it's on the player-base to play the class or not. If you're not playing it because you have some issue with the races that this theme comes from anyway, then that's a serious problem you need to work out.

[Ielenia]

Where did I say exclusivity? I said flexible because the mech concept allows the Tinker concept to be similar to the popular Druid concept. As I said before, it allows Tinkers to also get popular concepts like class-based mounts, and higher levels of class customization.

You don't need a mech to get class-based mounts. As for 'class customization', I doubt it, unless it's a hero class, which I am over 90% sure won't happen, as there is no way to come up with good lore to explain why such combat experts never did any combat before.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...orged-Warframe

And keep in mind, the OP hates the Tinker concept.

People like the mount. I don't see how that immediately correlates to "people want to fight in a mech".

Which is still more serious than "Mechanized Squirrel Bombs" and "Thorium Rocket Chicken" which is a robotic chicken launching rockets at you.

Is it, really? Arguably, the 'pocket factory' trumps everything in silliness and 'whimsicality'. And I say those ability and talent names are also just as whimsical as Millificent's abilities.

One "silly" ability out of several from a character way back in TBC. You've certainly made your point.

"Several"? The character has only three.

Nothing stops any player from rolling a Gnome or Goblin except their own personal tastes. A class concept shouldn't be compromised because people have childish hang ups.

Wow, real mature there, calling the ones who don't like gnomes or goblins "childish" and "immature". By the way, I could flip that argument right around and turn it at you as an argument of why the class shouldn't be restricted to just gnomes and goblins. That would be the real damage to the class, dooming a class to being underused (likely less represented than the Monk class) because it got restricted to two of the the most disliked playable races in the game.

[Directionalk9]

Blizzard will implement whatever they want. If they want to bring in the Tinker class, I think the class will be better served keeping it Goblins and Gnomes only. If they decide to go that route, it's on the player-base to play the class or not. If you're not playing it because you have some issue with the races that this theme comes from anyway, then that's a serious problem you need to work out.

I wouldn't say it's a serious problem I need to work out, it's not the Syrian refugee crisis.
Clearly it's on the player-base to actually play the class, but it is Blizzard's job to do what they can to get the appeal of a new class as high as they can, limiting it to least played races works against that.

[Ielenia]

Blizzard will implement whatever they want. If they want to bring in the Tinker class, I think the class will be better served keeping it Goblins and Gnomes only. If they decide to go that route, it's on the player-base to play the class or not.

They don't have to "wait and see". The results are already in: the class would suffer heavily if restricted to those two classes.

If you're not playing it because you have some issue with the races that this theme comes from anyway, then that's a serious problem you need to work out.

Seriously? Can you stop being childish? It's perfectly fine for people to not like something without it being some sort of "serious problem". The only one with a "serious problem" here that needs to be worked out is you, apparently.

[Teriz]

You don't need a mech to get class-based mounts. As for 'class customization', I doubt it, unless it's a hero class, which I am over 90% sure won't happen, as there is no way to come up with good lore to explain why such combat experts never did any combat before.

Because Gelbin Mekkatorque and the Gnomes didn't get the tech for the suits until after Helix Blackfuse. Supposedly, the Gnomes stole tech from Siege of Orgrimmar, and from what we've seen from Mekkatorque's suit, it looks to be an improvement on the modified Shredder tech we saw from Blackfuse, the Iron Horde, and Gazlowe. So if we're not seeing the improved suit until Legion, it makes sense that we wouldn't have seen mass production of these units until now.

People like the mount. I don't see how that immediately correlates to "people want to fight in a mech".

If people like riding around and showing off in a mech, you seriously don't think they wouldn't want to fight in one as well?

Is it, really? Arguably, the 'pocket factory' trumps everything in silliness and 'whimsicality'. And I say those ability and talent names are also just as whimsical as Millificent's abilities.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree.

"Several"? The character has only three.

I'm combining all of the abilities mech-riding NPCs together, and it comes out to several.

Wow, real mature there, calling the ones who don't like gnomes or goblins "childish" and "immature". By the way, I could flip that argument right around and turn it at you as an argument of why the class shouldn't be restricted to just gnomes and goblins. That would be the real damage to the class, dooming a class to being underused (likely less represented than the Monk class) because it got restricted to two of the the most disliked playable races in the game.

Like I said, it's up to Blizzard. However, spreading the Tinker concept to multiple races waters down the concept, and keeping it Gnome and Goblin only enhances that class' lore.

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't say it's a serious problem I need to work out, it's not the Syrian refugee crisis.
Clearly it's on the player-base to actually play the class, but it is Blizzard's job to do what they can to get the appeal of a new class as high as they can, limiting it to least played races works against that.

The appeal is there, since the Tinker is a popular class concept. If people dig a technology class utilizing Goblin and Gnome tech, then they should also enjoy playing the Goblin/Gnome race that technology is based on.

[Hitei]

It also gives the class a more flexible method of gameplay, and sensible weapon deployment. It also adds an air of seriousness to the class, and people want to be able to pilot mechs into combat.

No they don't. Were you not around for Wrath when everyone continuously complained about all the vehicle stuff because it didn't feel like their character was actually doing anything? It doesn't add any seriousness at all, look at the Broken Shore cinematic.

I doubt it because you don't see such silly abilities in the WC3 Tinker or the updated HotS Tinker (though Pocket Factory comes very close). You also don't see silly abilities in the Gazlowe or Marin Shredder units, or with Siegecrafter Blackfuse. Also Endgineer Omegaplugg is just as recent as Millificent, has significant abilities, and they aren't silly. It appears that when these engineers are inside mechs, their abilities become a bit more serious, which is why I believe that Blizzard will go in that direction.

Robo-Goblin is absolutely a silly ability. A tiny green person getting into a wacky looking treaded robot is silly. A giant backpack bigger than a character with comic looking robot claws is silly. A HotS character with abilities named things like "Deth Lazor" and "Rock-it! Turret", who is also a tiny green person with a massively oversized comedic robot backpack is silly. Noggenfogger is a joke character whose main role in Legion is comedic relief for Rogues. Siegecrafter Blackfuse is the boss in SoO for whom nearly every single voice line is a joke. Omegaplugg does have a silly ability, "All the Missiles".

In a mech or out of a mech, gnomes and goblins are and will always be comedic. A tiny person in a huge robot suit is always going to be comedic. If Blizzard implements Tinker, it is not going to be a serious class, it will be a class filled with typical goblin and gnome hijinks and whimsical gadgets and weapons. Because that's what Tinkers are.

[Teriz]

No they don't. Were you not around for Wrath when everyone continuously complained about all the vehicle stuff because it didn't feel like their character was actually doing anything? It doesn't add any seriousness at all, look at the Broken Shore cinematic.

Yeah, you wouldn't give it vehicle controls, you would give it class controls. It would be no different than any "form change" (Druids, Apotheosis, etc.)

Robo-Goblin is absolutely a silly ability. A tiny green person getting into a wacky looking treaded robot is silly. A giant backpack bigger than a character with comic looking robot claws is silly. A HotS character with abilities named things like "Deth Lazor" and "Rock-it! Turret", who is also a tiny green person with a massively oversized comedic robot backpack is silly. Noggenfogger is a joke character whose main role in Legion is comedic relief for Rogues. Siegecrafter Blackfuse is the boss in SoO for whom nearly every single voice line is a joke. Omegaplugg does have a silly ability, "All the Missiles".

In a mech or out of a mech, gnomes and goblins are and will always be comedic. A tiny person in a huge robot suit is always going to be comedic. If Blizzard implements Tinker, it is not going to be a serious class, it will be a class filled with typical goblin and gnome hijinks and whimsical gadgets and weapons. Because that's what Tinkers are.

Obviously it's not going to be some dark, edgy class like Death Knights or Demon Hunters, it's going to be generally a light-hearted class, because Goblin and Gnome technology and Gnome and Goblin races themselves are light-hearted. However, you can keep it light-hearted without making it over-the-top. Millificent Manastorm is over the top, Siegecrafter Blackfuse is light-hearted but dangerous.

[Hitei]

Yeah, you wouldn't give it vehicle controls, you would give it class controls. It would be no different than any "form change" (Druids, Apotheosis, etc.)

Which was sort of my first point. It isn't actually anything unique or special. It's just another form, stance, Demo Metamorphosis, etc. A gnome in a suit smacking thing isn't all that different from a Draenei in armor smacking things. A gun built into an arm to blast things isn't all that different from a rogue pulling out a blunderbuss to blast things.

No doubt it isn't going to be some dark, edgy class like Death Knights or Demon Hunters, it's going to be generally a light-hearted class, because Goblin and Gnome technology and Gnome and Goblin races themselves are light-hearted. However, you can keep it light-hearted without making it over-the-top. Millificent Manastorm is over the top, Siegecrafter Blackfuse is light-hearted but dangerous.

No, Blackfuse is comedic. Let's be real here. Monk is a good example of a "light-hearted" class. Tinkers are a silly class. They are no more "dangerous" than any spec in the game, and their entire history is filled with jokes and over-the-top. A tiny green person in a giant robot that's chest is a big goblin face, and that has part of a scorpion tail sticking out of its top is silly.

Because Tinkers are inherently a silly class.

[Teriz]

Which was sort of my first point. It isn't actually anything unique or special. It's just another form, stance, Demo Metamorphosis, etc. A gnome in a suit smacking thing isn't all that different from a Draenei in armor smacking things. A gun built into an arm to blast things isn't all that different from a rogue pulling out a blunderbuss to blast things.

Except that a mech suit makes it more sensible for a tiny Gnome or Goblin to be able to utilize a wide variety weapons, because the mech can be a weapon platform. Think Iron Man for example. Also like Druid forms, a mech suit allows for the Tinker class to get an integrated class mount fairly easily, allows customization, and makes equipped weaponry (which composes largely of medieval weapons) largely meaningless. As I said earlier, mech mounts are quite popular in WoW, so the Tinker class getting a unique mech mount (of sorts) can definitely help with the popularity of the class.

No, Blackfuse is comedic. Let's be real here. Monk is a good example of a "light-hearted" class. Tinkers are a silly class. They are no more "dangerous" than any spec in the game, and their entire history is filled with jokes and over-the-top. A tiny green person in a giant robot that's chest is a big goblin face, and that has part of a scorpion tail sticking out of its top is silly.

Well, that's certainly your opinion, and you're welcome to it. There's really no point arguing what you consider silly and what I consider silly. My point is that Blackfuse is far less silly and over the top than Manastorm.

However, with that said, given the nature of the Tinker (in your view that nature is "silly" ), they should definitely stay with Goblins/Gnomes, because spreading such a concept beyond those races would increase the "silliness" of the concept.

[Deleted]

As fun as it would be to see a gun-toting Tinker, the main problem with that concept is that such a class would also have to equip bows and x-bows.

it would have to do no such thing. Firearms and a huge-wrench-type melee weapon are perfectly enough.

The mech concept simply works better

It doesn't.

because then the class could equip any weapon, and it would just operate as a stat-stick just like weapons in the Druid class.

No reason to do anything of the kind.