Do you think a stat squish is needed?

[Onikaroshi]

I think you misunderstood me. We don't do WoD raids anymore, while leveling you don't stop at 100 and do the raids for weeks to get gear to hop into Legion, you skip them and go right to Legion. Smoothing out power spikes was one of the main reason for the initial squish, and 10k->800k is a huge spike.

and no, 800k+ DPS isn't top of the line. My 918 mage does almost that ST as fire, a spec with really bad ST. On fights like mistress I can hit up to 1.4 mil depending on how long adds are up and RNG. Mythic geared players on a fight like Mistress are doing 2.5-3 million, and on a ST fight like Goroth, 1.3-1.5 mil.

Problem is you can't compare high end numbers to leveling numbers, a fresh 110 may break 100k if they're a good class and lucky, but people raiding Mythic HFC compared to people raiding Mythic ToS (which is a rather fair comparison since they were released equally within the expansion) is only about 2x.

Btw, I guess they mentioned a squish June 16th of last year, so it probably was after fixes to the 32 bit thing, but with them not mentioning it since its still not guaranteed.

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we need a massive stat dump, like 5k hp top tier tank, and 1k hp massive crit.

seeing owersized numbers of numbers not healthy for fantasy game

How do the size of the numbers have any relation to the genre of game?

[unbound]

With talk of the next expansion starting to float around do you think another stat squish is needed?

If so please explain how and why you think it would work.

It will probably need to happen as I would imagine some of the original base code a) can't handle numbers too large, and b) is too difficult to update.

TBH, Blizz let the scaling go too far this expansion.

[schwarzkopf]

Doesn't mean they should keep it since it's taxing on performance, unless they get around that problem as well.

Not really, not in the long run at least... most PCs are 64 bit these days and 64 bit integer arithmetic is as fast as 32 bit integer arithmetic on native.

I just think it's funny they said the original squish would probably fix the problem for "many years to come",

Well, they got it right there - seems it fixed things for long enough for a tech fix to be worked out.

and now we're already higher than MoP numbers just 2 expansions later.

Not sure how that is relevant, the size of the numbers now just shows that the stat squish did its job.

[Onikaroshi]

It will probably need to happen as I would imagine some of the original base code a) can't handle numbers too large, and b) is too difficult to update.

TBH, Blizz let the scaling go too far this expansion.

On your two first points, they've already fixed that, MoP they couldn't go above 2 bil and change, now KJ is over 10 bil.

On the second point, scaling is really not that much different than other expansions, but since the numbers are bigger it looks like it isn't.

[Vynestra]

Nope, power is relative.

Especially since numbers don't break the game anymore like garrosh in mop.

No reason to squish.

They might, but if they do they need to do it the right way, which is setting us back to legit BC hp levels, they set us back to cata levels in wod, and we ended at mop levels, we power creeped through two xpacs in one, now we're the highest it's ever been.

[Jazzhands]

Problem is you can't compare high end numbers to leveling numbers, a fresh 110 may break 100k if they're a good class and lucky, but people raiding Mythic HFC compared to people raiding Mythic ToS (which is a rather fair comparison since they were released equally within the expansion) is only about 2x.

Btw, I guess they mentioned a squish June 16th of last year, so it probably was after fixes to the 32 bit thing, but with them not mentioning it since its still not guaranteed.

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How do the size of the numbers have any relation to the genre of game?

I'm glad you sound that, I was looking around for when they mentioned the second squish. But one thing i'll point out about end of WoD numbers, the ring blew things way out of proportion. Mythic Iron Reaver dying in 15 seconds to arcane mages doing 1.4 mil was just the ring and everyone having full BiS, when you look at what people were doing when the fights were progression or newish like ToS is now, they were only doing 100-200k or so.

[Onikaroshi]

I'm glad you sound that, I was looking around for when they mentioned the second squish. But one thing i'll point out about end of WoD numbers, the ring blew things way out of proportion. Mythic Iron Reaver dying in 15 seconds to arcane mages doing 1.4 mil was just the ring and everyone having full BiS, when you look at what people were doing when the fights were progression or newish like ToS is now, they were only doing 100-200k or so.

The ring is very comparable to current legendaries though, and I wasn't talking about iron reaver being blasted down at 500k dps* (post 7.0) and more an average of 250-400k

[Deleted]

Id rather have they make the power creep each tier/expansion less insane. where only 2nd tier legion and where already at like 4 to 5 times as much dmg as during first tier.

[LinusTechTip]

They did the squish at the same time they removed the 32 bit constraint if I remember correctly. So that wasn't the reason for the squish in the first place.

They actually made 64 bit during legion beta because tichondrius had a negative value during testing

[huth]

They actually made 64 bit during legion beta because tichondrius had a negative value during testing

Unlikely. They didn't just expand the variable, they changed it to a different type. That is "a bit" more work and needs more preparation.

[TheWindWalker]

Honestly, I'm okay with either direction. I really like seeing millions of damage and while I was all onboard the WoD squish train... all they did was making the current expansion (WoD) come out to about the same level (Mists) by the end and fuck up all the soloing stuff from previous expansions by making you instagib things by way of "if lvl is above [x] then [*1,000% damage]" and that friggin sucked for achivement farming.

[DaHomieG]

We need an iLevel squish. It's getting into the four digit realm next expansion like GearScore, which iLevel replaced BECAUSE GearScore numbers got that high.

[SniperCT]

What if ilevel scaled with player level. Aka a regular dungeon set would be ilevel 110, heroic dungeon would be 112, etc, capping out at +15 ilevels for a tier 1 mythic raid. Though I suppose by the end of the expansion we'd be at like ilevel 160 or something for the last mythic raid and the next expansion would have to start at 150 even if we're starting at level 111.

But it would make the power creep go a whole lot slower.

[Deleted]

We need an iLevel squish. It's getting into the four digit realm next expansion like GearScore, which iLevel replaced BECAUSE GearScore numbers got that high.

We don't need an item squish just because some squirrel-brained people can't comprehend numbers with more than 3 digits.

[Deleted]

Nah, let it go.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

A squish is needed, but how would this work for lower levels?
Personally I think the previous squish fucked up low level content... yes, I know most players don't give a shit about that, but I do.
Gear from a raid in expansion 4 should not have worse stats than gear from expansion 3 or even 2.

[gushDH]

What does it matter... It's all relative anyway and can always be converted to percentages.

Let's say a boss has 10billion hp, that's 10,000,000,000 hp and you do 1 million dps, that's 1,000,000. In percentages, you do 0.0001% of the bosses hp as dps. That's constant for every patch/expansion.

So, in the end, nothing of that matters.

[Hctaz]

How, by making all upgrades like what we have now with jewelry? If you don't have noticeable power increases between tiers your "BiS" becomes something many ilvl under what the current tier drops.

I have literally no idea why you're complaining about that. Titanforging means the exact same thing but even worse. I'd rather be forced to use a 905 Convergence all expansion instead of needing to keep farming it every single week to try to get a 955 one. At least in Vanilla WoW once you got the gear you were done.

[Huntermyth]

i remember having 7.5k hp on my hunter at the end of tbc. ( without high end tier raiding. )

not that i am playing right now because of real life issues but even if i did, i wouldn't mind if i am hitting for 1b or 1k.

[Sarevokcz]

we need a massive stat dump, like 5k hp top tier tank, and 1k hp massive crit.

seeing owersized numbers of numbers not healthy for fantasy game

Is there really a difference, if the HP are 5k HP or 5M HP? or if dps is 1,3k or 1,3M? you dont like too much zeros? get some SCT addon that squishes them and stops saying 1301230 and just gives you 1,3M and you can pretend its K, there, your fantasy issues solved

the main issue of technical limitations was solved, so even if quish makes some sense now, it isnt required