Should Schools be allowed to revoke credentials and/or degrees?

[Doctor Amadeus]

The degree is the recognition that you do actually understand though. If you didn't understand...you would not have the degree. How are you not getting this?

Yes, it is, and you could have a degree for a lot of reasons you could have blew the professor, he could have been a family friend, hell you could be a legacy student and the faculty intimidated it for you, or you simply just paid money and applied your self just a bit better than total wash outs, got your C grade maybe and graduated with your hand out.


I hate to break it to you those people aren't impressing anybody who didn't do what they did, and it's for a lot of the reasons I mentioned.

[Seranthor]

Do you know or care how knowledge works, do you understand what is done with that and why, how a discipline can be misused and abused not only what is taught but by whom?

Earned means you paid your dues, if you can't demonstrate that in life after school then you are a fraud, why the hell would a school truly distinguished want to be associated with people that worthless.


Because one way or another it wasn't knowledge.


The truth is if you just paid 200.000 or more for an education just to defraud people and buck the system when you could have spent a fractions of that on a fake diploma and did the same thing if you were really smart and going to do that anyway.


Then not only is that person a fucking fraud they obviously are pretty fucking stupid no matter what test they take or how intelligent they convinced themselves they are.


Doctors in general don't go to school to be millionaires or billionaires, so when one fuck nut or sell out decides to not give a shit, and ties themselves and their body of work through to an association of people that do, that is a fucking problem.

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No they are equal student loan is just more of a gamble, they are all equal, you paying money on a car or a house you could save up and own for far less, is idiotic, and it is also why debt and credit work the way they do.

Funny thing is many people that bitch the most about that, probably took out a loan for 1 of the three,

You've convinced yourself that this is a good idea, its clear that no one or no amount of rational thinking is going to disuade you from your position. What you are advocating for the the extermination of the higher education system to be replaced by the fake diploma mills... What you are advocating for is the destruction of a society that prizes education. You are advocating for a 1984 kind of existence where any and all dissent is stamped out for fear of losing their education credentials. If I have this wrong, then by all means convince me otherwise. How are you going to prevent this plan of yours from destroying higher education?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Because one way or another it wasn't knowledge.

Yes it was...the knowledge was demonstrated by getting the degree. How you choose to utilize that knowledge is entirely up to you...the School doesn't have any further involvement. You don't lose your degree in Comp Sci just because you decide to take over your Father's Hardware store. You don't lose your degree in biology just because you get a TV show and promote questionable products.

[Doctor Amadeus]

House and car loans are secured loans. Student loans are unsecured loans. There's a difference.

There isn't if you understand basic economics you would understand, hell of you knew anything about the sub prime mortgage crises you wouldn't say that. I own my damn home out right and I wouldn't say that.

My house it's value is tied to a fucking market that is made out of nothing but fears and whims, and over night thankfully I own my home, but it could go from being worth $1.5 million to 600 thousand over night.

The average home owner generally gains equity and only about the rate of inflation.

You know what that means?

If you don't at least own your home fuck interest you are pouring money down a fucking hole for a house that is going to do nothing but depreciate. Which is why neighborhoods are as bigoted and paranoid of their neighbors as much as possible.


They take a bath on their home then that's one investment never to be realized. That goes the same for a car even more

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Yes, it is, and you could have a degree for a lot of reasons you could have blew the professor, he could have been a family friend, hell you could be a legacy student and the faculty intimidated it for you, or you simply just paid money and applied your self just a bit better than total wash outs, got your C grade maybe and graduated with your hand out.

Again, a degree received on fraudulent grounds is entirely different than an earned degree. Unless you can show that the person committed fraud to get their degree...there is no cause to revoke that degree. Anything they did after receiving their degree is immaterial.

If the school passed you even though you didn't deserve it...they are not going to be the ones that expose you...because that would be worse for the institution than anything you're talking about.

Even if you only just barely got the degree...you still met the requirements to receive that degree.

[Seranthor]

There isn't if you understand basic economics you would understand, hell of you knew anything about the sub prime mortgage crises you wouldn't say that. I own my damn home out right and I wouldn't say that.

My house it's value is tied to a fucking market that is made out of nothing but fears and whims, and over night thankfully I own my home, but it could go from being worth $1.5 million to 600 thousand over night.

The average home owner generally gains equity and only about the rate of inflation.

You know what that means?

If you don't at least own your home fuck interest you are pouring money down a fucking hole for a house that is going to do nothing but depreciate. Which is why neighborhoods are as bigoted and paranoid of their neighbors as much as possible.


They take a bath on their home then that's one investment never to be realized. That goes the same for a car even more

Are you now trying to tell us secured and unsecured loans are the same? based on your vast knowledge of economics?

[Doctor Amadeus]

Yes it was...the knowledge was demonstrated by getting the degree. How you choose to utilize that knowledge is entirely up to you...the School doesn't have any further involvement. You don't lose your degree in Comp Sci just because you decide to take over your Father's Hardware store. You don't lose your degree in biology just because you get a TV show and promote questionable products.

No it wasn't it was demonstrated your ability to follow instructions and do what others told you just enough. It doesn't mean you have knowledge.

Another tip, fuck college, work on a farm for 4 to 6 years, You wont get a diploma but your knowledge of agriculture, science and fuck even life will mature and be more valuable than most college students and degrees.

Another reasons why immigrants are such a scapegoat is because despite the bullshit negative narratives about them, many risk it all for a better life and do what most wont, which is why those guys will own a fucking Truck and a House before most finished school gotten out of debt and figured how to fucking pay for it.


And at least most those immigrants actually have knowledge.

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Are you now trying to tell us secured and unsecured loans are the same? based on your vast knowledge of economics?

Yes, they are both the same kind of fucked, just a different way to do it. Don't flatter me I don't have a vast knowledge at all, don't need to and I didn't have to scam my way through life to do it.

[desert-wind]

A better question might be, "Should universities have more rigorous methods of assessment before handing our degrees to people who do literally nothing the entire time they are enrolled except use other peoples assignments and get 10% on exams?" Another possible example is, "Why do we even have to pay through the nose for a degree when most qualifications are not relevant when you transition out of academics in to the real world?"

I have two qualifications myself, and I basically should have been able to just pay the money up front (or not, why should we?) and start working in the fields I wanted, because I damn sure learnt nothing of value from the educators. Everything that I needed to know was learned in practice (Engineering and Education). The only fields that really should be based on study are medicine and law and from what I've seen both of these fields actually have more rigorous methods of testing before someone is qualified). Both require a large back log of information before you can start doing anything. Most other fields a monitored apprentice like system makes a lot more sense.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

No it wasn't it was demonstrated your ability to follow instructions and do what others told you just enough. It doesn't mean you have knowledge.

Another tip, fuck college, work on a farm for 4 to 6 years, You wont get a diploma but your knowledge of agriculture, science and fuck even life will mature and be more valuable than most college students and degrees.

Another reasons why immigrants are such a scapegoat is because despite the bullshit negative narratives about them, many risk it all for a better life and do what most wont, which is why those guys will own a fucking Truck and a House before most finished school gotten out of debt and figured how to fucking pay for it.


And at least most those immigrants actually have knowledge.

You are completely losing the thread of your own argument. Now you're off on a weird tangent about degrees being worthless anyway. If that's the case...then you shouldn't care about them one way or another.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Again, a degree received on fraudulent grounds is entirely different than an earned degree. Unless you can show that the person committed fraud to get their degree...there is no cause to revoke that degree. Anything they did after receiving their degree is immaterial.

If the school passed you even though you didn't deserve it...they are not going to be the ones that expose you...because that would be worse for the institution than anything you're talking about.

Even if you only just barely got the degree...you still met the requirements to receive that degree.

Again technicalities, not a demonstrations of knowledge but meh go ahead and keep thinking that as science, and any other kind of knowledge becomes more worthless no matter what it's written sooner or later, you can go ahead and cling to your technicalities.


You might have learned the right answers but you don't know the reasons behind them totally or how to find out IF you cling to the notions you earned a degree because of how much money you paid, I think the most prestigious universities would disagree. Some for a different reason than you, but most not for your benefit. Both are wrong for different reasons IN MY OPINION.

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You are completely losing the thread of your own argument. Now you're off on a weird tangent about degrees being worthless anyway. If that's the case...then you shouldn't care about them one way or another.

No I am highlighting why they are worthless and a proposal of a way to save them and reverse a shitty trend from the top down.

For the record I am liberal and I am on the side of students, and believe most if not all got a raw fucking deal, on loans and everything else. I would like to actually save education without blaming People of Color and the dirty people for a socially unconscious act that has created the situations we are in.

[Seranthor]

Again technicalities, not a demonstrations of knowledge but meh go ahead and keep thinking that as science, and any other kind of knowledge becomes more worthless no matter what it's written sooner or later, you can go ahead and cling to your technicalities.


You might have learned the right answers but you don't know the reasons behind them totally or how to find out IF you cling to the notions you earned a degree because of how much money you paid, I think the most prestigious universities would disagree. Some for a different reason than you, but most not for your benefit. Both are wrong for different reasons IN MY OPINION.

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No I am highlighting why they are worthless and a proposal of a way to save them and reverse a shitty trend from the top down.

For the record I am liberal and I am on the side of students, and believe most if not all got a raw fucking deal, on loans and everything else. I would like to actually save education without blaming People of Color and the dirty people for a socially unconscious act that has created the situations we are in.

How is this plan of yours going to reverse a shitty trend? I'm all ears. Be detailed, so those of us that are interested can understand.

[Doctor Amadeus]

A better question might be, "Should universities have more rigorous methods of assessment before handing our degrees to people who do literally nothing the entire time they are enrolled except use other peoples assignments and get 10% on exams?" Another possible example is, "Why do we even have to pay through the nose for a degree when most qualifications are not relevant when you transition out of academics in to the real world?"

I have two qualifications myself, and I basically should have been able to just pay the money up front (or not, why should we?) and start working in the fields I wanted, because I damn sure learnt nothing of value from the educators. Everything that I needed to know was learned in practice (Engineering and Education). The only fields that really should be based on study are medicine and law and from what I've seen both of these fields actually have more rigorous methods of testing before someone is qualified). Both require a large back log of information before you can start doing anything. Most other fields a monitored apprentice like system makes a lot more sense.

Yeah I agree mostly what you describe is an internship system where students basically are indentured servants J/K!


No but seriously the idea is you don't get paid maybe a siphoned for cost and what not, but you get to work for free, on the condition you aren't a total flake and screw up, and any old people getting complacent or hates you gets themselves fired there might be an opening that can hire the intern they haven't been paying for a fraction of the person they fired.


It's doesn't have to be bad, but it can be being an apprentice generally means you are being groomed for a profession you can us and do in change for cost effective labor.


WIN WIN however the way some are trying to do it it's the Intern thing, and with the attack on Unions they are making it impossible for those that have been working to protect their jobs just like they couldn't protect their benefits like their 401k

[Deleted]

Yeah well you better read the fine print, because you aren't guaranteed to get your moneys worth of knowledge only a piece of paper

Earned means you paid your dues, if you can't demonstrate that in life after school then you are a fraud, why the hell would a school truly distinguished want to be associated with people that worthless.

Whatever it is that was credited by the school remains. If what you get is a piece of paper, and not necessarily knowledge, there's 0 reason to revoke anything on the merits of knowing anything at all.
There absolutely is reason to investigate the school if they credited someone that didn't meet the standards.

[Doctor Amadeus]

How is this plan of yours going to reverse a shitty trend? I'm all ears. Be detailed, so those of us that are interested can understand.

1. Making Degrees enforced to be what they were meant to be will slow the bloated budgets some of these schools get for things sometimes academically needed but too many that aren't Public Universities would be what I mean here. But the prestigious schools would also do better because so many with fat wallets and those just trying to get a degree they can pad their resumes with would stop. Thus actually helping their reputations.

2. It would also mean less people taking out student loans for degrees that weren't really all that serious about aside from pay, and go into debt with which dictate the majority of their lives that might make anybody successful, use their actual degree for little more than again a prop.

3. People not going to school would actually enter the work force more at an entry level thus forcing company's to pay a little less but open more doors, for those that can actually competently be vetted for the job, helping business and people. Hell you might even get some to pay for schooling even more than they sometimes do now.


4. It would give everybody rich poor left or right a fucking reality check, and elitism would take a fucking back seat again to true academics and those who need to have ability and passion for knowledge especially in vital fields we need as a society.

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Whatever it is that was credited by the school remains. If what you get is a piece of paper, and not necessarily knowledge, there's 0 reason to revoke anything on the merits of knowing anything at all.
There absolutely is reason to investigate the school if they credited someone that didn't meet the standards.

Yeah I am talking about how the degree is used, not just for qualifications, but also to go the other way and because of where they went or they went to school at all being mislabeled for something they aren't based on claims made some have no business making and can't be substantiated in any way, regardless to acronyms in their name.

[Deleted]

Yeah I am talking about how the degree is used, not just for qualifications, but also to go the other way and because of where they went or they went to school at all being mislabeled for something they aren't based on claims made some have no business making and can't be substantiated in any way, regardless to acronyms in their name.

Which is why you should be talking about /licenses/, not credentials.
And those are not granted by the school.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Which is why you should be talking about /licenses/, not credentials.
And those are not granted by the school.

Yeah I am picking up what you are laying down, the only thing is and I think you might have missed the connection is that degrees are treated the same way, not by everyone but it has a way of being misapplied by counting on the ignorance of the significant.


Show some people you have a degree from ________ prestige school people lose their mind. Like a con artist in a Armani suit who sells well anything, make him good looking enough people will trust you with their most prized possessions with the right motivations including shame.

[Seranthor]

1. Making Degrees enforced to be what they were meant to be will slow the bloated budgets some of these schools get for things sometimes academically needed but too many that aren't Public Universities would be what I mean here. But the prestigious schools would also do better because so many with fat wallets and those just trying to get a degree they can pad their resumes with would stop. Thus actually helping their reputations.

2. It would also mean less people taking out student loans for degrees that weren't really all that serious about aside from pay, and go into debt with which dictate the majority of their lives that might make anybody successful, use their actual degree for little more than again a prop.

3. People not going to school would actually enter the work force more at an entry level thus forcing company's to pay a little less but open more doors, for those that can actually competently be vetted for the job, helping business and people. Hell you might even get some to pay for schooling even more than they sometimes do now.


4. It would give everybody rich poor left or right a fucking reality check, and elitism would take a fucking back seat again to true academics and those who need to have ability and passion for knowledge especially in vital fields we need as a society.

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Yeah I am talking about how the degree is used, not just for qualifications, but also to go the other way and because of where they went or they went to school at all being mislabeled for something they aren't based on claims made some have no business making and can't be substantiated in any way, regardless to acronyms in their name.

1. Enforced? Explain, in detail. Bloated budgets? how does that relate to 'enforcing' degrees, Explain, in detail. Help whose reputation? The first education university that revoked a duly earned degree would face a mass exodus of students transfering to other institutions that did NOT have this policy. It would also see the end of any alumni contributions to the schools operating funds. Thus effectively ending the schools existence.

2. Sure, it would end any possibility of anyone getting a student loan, which would translate to fewer and fewer students for these institutions, thus ending their ability to provide any education. (those people of color you claim to care about, would also be hurt, badly).

3. Ending higher education wouldn't increase the work force, it would leave them less educated, less prepared.

4. The reality check that would occur is that higher education is only for those of wealth and privilege and of those, only those that accepted the hive mind. Academia would cease to exist. Technological advances would slow or cease, because any controversial theory could lead to the education credentials of the author or supporter of these theories being revoked. Remember that a spherical earth at one time was a controversial theory, and so was the idea that the earth revolved around the sun.

5. Your plan would be akin to returning to the days of the inquisition.

On this day in 1633, chief inquisitor Father Vincenzo Maculano da Firenzuola, appointed by Pope Urban VIII,begins the inquisition of physicist and astronomer Galileo Galilei. Galileo was ordered to turn himself in to the Holy Office to begin trial for holding the belief that the Earth revolves around the Sun, which was deemed heretical by the Catholic Church. Standard practice demanded that the accused be imprisoned and secluded during the trial.

Thats right, you dont want to 'protect' education, you want to destroy it.

[Doctor Amadeus]

1. Enforced? Explain, in detail. Bloated budgets? how does that relate to 'enforcing' degrees, Explain, in detail. Help whose reputation? The first education university that revoked a duly earned degree would face a mass exodus of students transfering to other institutions that did NOT have this policy. It would also see the end of any alumni contributions to the schools operating funds. Thus effectively ending the schools existence.

Already explained how, the first person up for review, whenever that needed to happen probably nor right away and certainly not that often again it would be a process. However a mass exodus is NOT a bad thing stock can go up actually after that.

People will ask and find out why, truth is the Prices might go up I would doubt it, but if It did, you would have whoever left or applying a hell of a lot more focused on what they learned, than money or a degree on papaer.

2. Sure, it would end any possibility of anyone getting a student loan, which would translate to fewer and fewer students for these institutions, thus ending their ability to provide any education. (those people of color you claim to care about, would also be hurt, badly).

Well it isn't going to hurt people of colors because people of color are capable of getting into college, Everyone isn't leaving, and those not actually perusing education for the right reasons regardless to color, doesn't really need to be there, nothing wrong with say just wanting to make money, but there are ways to do that without college.

This is going to effect all colors a lot I am sure, changing the dynamics and forcing a change in the industry as I said in a positive way.

3. Ending higher education wouldn't increase the work force, it would leave them less educated, less prepared.

Read a paper, do some research that isn't happening now, and I don't mean Gender Studies majors either. Lots of people are going to school graduating and becoming worthless as a result and business is sustaining that damage.

4. The reality check that would occur is that higher education is only for those of wealth and privilege and of those, only those that accepted the hive mind. Academia would cease to exist. Technological advances would slow or cease, because any controversial theory could lead to the education credentials of the author or supporter of these theories being revoked. Remember that a spherical earth at one time was a controversial theory

Conjecture is not evidence, and the Earth being flat is not a fucking fact, it is a theory and the opinion in and of itself, is not something I have suggested would have a disagree taken away, but making unsubstantiated claims off the backs of a degree in that discipline should.

5. Your plan would be akin to returning to the days of the inquisition.

It wouldn't because this isn't about religion and plenty of religious schools could and would support the same standards, obviously not all, but not all of any are going to support this but those who actually take the discipline seriously. Being able to call out snake oil salesman no longer able to hide behind bullshit, or unsubstantiated credentials regardless to religion would be a plus.

On this day in 1633, chief inquisitor Father Vincenzo Maculano da Firenzuola, appointed by Pope Urban VIII,begins the inquisition of physicist and astronomer Galileo Galilei. Galileo was ordered to turn himself in to the Holy Office to begin trial for holding the belief that the Earth revolves around the Sun, which was deemed heretical by the Catholic Church. Standard practice demanded that the accused be imprisoned and secluded during the trial.

Thats right, you dont want to 'protect' education, you want to destroy it.

Again more Religion only an argument in the reverse. The simple fact of the matter is this flat earth bullshit for example is complete and utter bullshit, propped up by whack jobs and insane lunatics, regardless to what they claim academically.


Atheist or religious bodies often wouldn't fucking endorse a lot of bullshit passed off as such. But this isn't about religion or opinions considered conspiracy. This is about protecting knowledge and the trust and reliability we need to count on from being subverts by the Insane to the Critically stupid and Greedy.

[Jinpachi]

Absolutely not. A degree is a separate entity from a license to work in said field of degree. Generally, the state handles such matters. Examples would be teachers and lawyers, beauticians, psychologists, etc. You pickin up what im puttin down?

[Doctor Amadeus]

No. I got a professional certification a few years ago, and they basically force you to pay $250 a year to keep your certification. There's no other requirement, it's just a yearly shakedown. If you don't pay you lose the cert. It has nothing to do with your qualifications, just your willingness to keep paying.

I can see unis doing this too if they are allowed to take away degrees.

You're right that's a good argument for not doing this and I agree I can't counter that argument

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Absolutely not. A degree is a separate entity from a license to work in said field of degree. Generally, the state handles such matters. Examples would be teachers and lawyers, beauticians, psychologists, etc. You pickin up what im puttin down?

Yes I do and that was hilarious. But kind of ignored my rebuttal to that argument.