LFR Wing 3 is an insult to everything.

[Skillslam]

People try to call LFR tourist mode, yet the tourists always seem to be dead/afk until it's time to loot

And remember when all the "I just want to see the story" people shit their collective diapers when LFR tier was removed in WoD

[Osmeric]

And yet MoP LFR was more involving than this and worked reasonably well.

MoP had the problem that there was no "casual organized" raiding until Flex was added. This meant casual guilds had to do LFR, since Normal (now called Heroic) was too difficult for them.

Since people who were 'too good' for LFR were being forced into it, LFR could be made more difficult. But when an organized raid difficulty was added for these guilds, the average skill level in LFR dropped, and it had to be tuned for its intended audience.

[clevin]

MoP had the problem that there was no "casual organized" raiding until Flex was added. This meant casual guilds had to do LFR, since Normal (now called Heroic) was too difficult for them.

Since people who were 'too good' for LFR were being forced into it, LFR could be made more difficult. But when an organized raid difficulty was added for these guilds, the average skill level in LFR dropped, and it had to be tuned for its intended audience.

Eh. Speculation on the skill level. You don't know anymore than I or anyone else here and no, your experiences aren't a good sample.

Flex was there in SoO but the LFR was still OK. They could always try to bring that difficulty back. As it is, I'm one of the people who did LFR a few times in NH and quit. I have nothing to do in the game that I want to bother with. The guild I'm part of is casual and clears normal and heroic, but I don't want to be tied to even 2 nights a week. Done that and if I don't feel like raiding on a given night, I don't want to feel forced to do it. LFR was boring and no challenge at all, even on a personal level.

Am I typical? No idea. I can see others finding LFR not interesting enough not willing to do organized raiding with a guild, not wanting to deal with PUGs and frankly, what else is there at max level? Nothing, really, not once you've done the BS stuff. My two 110s are 890ish and don't need more gear for anything shy of raiding. If LFR was at least somewhat interesting I might have played longer. On the other hand, it just might be time. I plan to do another 30 days at 7.3 and see how I feel about it all.

[NoiseTank13]

how many people are honestly lucky enough to TF to 955?

holy shit you people are bigger whiners than the folk at NeoGAF.

'waaaah this person who is 0.0001% of the population titanforged a 955 item of their worst stats!'

[crazyman2]

LFR is in a bad spot where it's stupidly dumbed down, and everybody knows it's stupidly dumbed down and put zero effort in (ie - watch netflix on other screen and hit enough buttons to look active). But as soon as they make something that people actually have to pay attention, there's massive community backlash and we get this again.

I did a run on a hunter one time in HFC and got 3rd in dps with autoattacks and chimera shot (ie - instant on a 9 second cooldown). I had like LFR and baleful gear and still needed upgrades out of there too. That run convinced me that LFR players aren't "bad", it's that they're afk or tabbed out most of the time and expecting to be carried for loot.
The entire thing is a toxic mess, and they can't fix it at the risk of sub losses (see cata launch and heroic dungeons)

[Skillslam]

My problem with LFR players is their dishonest bullshit. Can you imagine the amount of autistic screeching there would be if forging were removed so it could be the actual "story mode" they claim to want?

Just sack up and admit you don't give two shits about seeing anything and just want 930 loot for nothing

[Kalerender]

I like LFR for my alts. I do normal/heroic on my main (not enough guild members for mythics anymore, and we're slow and casual so recruiting is more difficult, but not fussed), and run LFR for tmog on alts.

Wing 1/2 was just the usual lowering in reduction so that if you stuff up mechanics it won't wipe, but it could go faster if done properly. Wing 3 is.. mediocre.

Avatar without the maiden is stupid - could've just not put the shield on her and had the tanks moving her to slow down the fel powerup. Yeah nothing new for the DPS but at least slightly like normal mode. Maiden the big problem is idiots face running into bombs then everyone explodes and suddenly it takes 8 minutes for half the raid to slowly wear her down. My better alts can endure it, but my LFR-only toons who just exist to feed my main tmog found it frustrating.

[Tech614]

Avatar without the maiden is stupid - could've just not put the shield on her and had the tanks moving her to slow down the fel powerup. Yeah nothing new for the DPS but at least slightly like normal mode.

Wait, the shield would be the least of anyone's worry you could tune it so 1-2 good DPS could break it solo on LFR. The reason the maiden doesn't exist on LFR is because of tanks. Fucking PUGs for normal can barely handle tanking the encounter right and you expect LFR tanks to do so?

You have shitty ass PUGs 3 tanking this boss because tanks are bad at it.

[cparle87]

Wait, the shield would be the least of anyone's worry you could tune it so 1-2 good DPS could break it solo on LFR. The reason the maiden doesn't exist on LFR is because of tanks. Fucking PUGs for normal can barely handle tanking the encounter right and you expect LFR tanks to do so?

You have shitty ass PUGs 3 tanking this boss because tanks are bad at it.

This. Precisely this. I ran it on Tuesday when it came out, and we hit the floor at 65% because the dps were so terrible and ended up wiping at like 20% cause we ran out of floor. If tanks were actually expected to tank Maiden in the beam on LFR we'd see him reaching full charge at 80% or more.

[Feuerbart]

I agree that this wing is the worst in resembling raid bosses. There is nothing happening, an the mechanics are all gone.

And lfr has been hard on occasion. Just remember durumu or lei shen or archi at the start.

[Phlegethon]

Ahh k understand now, though I have yet to get a legendary from LFR most of mine have been from emissary caches and raiding, and of raiding have only gotten two from doing that.. Either way the salt about LFR will never truly disappear as there will always be someone complaining about it..

- - - Updated - - -



Tell me about it, the amount of ninja pulling is getting ridiculous, that was well is a pain when the healers aren't doing what they signed up for.. Though have found getting in LFR just after reset yo do get the decent groups that do seem to care, it is just later in the week when you get the dregs..

Yeah, odd thing is, tanks are now ninjapulling while clearing trash too.
I mean, I had a fairly high "retard" threshold, but these last 2 weeks I've just been leaving. I can't take it anymore.

[kamuimac]

I agree that this wing is the worst in resembling raid bosses. There is nothing happening, an the mechanics are all gone.

And lfr has been hard on occasion. Just remember durumu or lei shen or archi at the start.

and still its hard aparently - did lfr this morning and in 3rd wing we have 3/4 of raid dead on maidens and 2 wipes on avatar due to to low dps .

i bet all those who say how easy it is do it on wednesday morning when only unemployed and geared raiders are in there - try to do it on weekend and then comment if difficulty is ok or not.

[HeiAggra]

and still its hard aparently - did lfr this morning and in 3rd wing we have 3/4 of raid dead on maidens and 2 wipes on avatar due to to low dps .

i bet all those who say how easy it is do it on wednesday morning when only unemployed and geared raiders are in there - try to do it on weekend and then comment if difficulty is ok or not.

Low dps does not quallify as hard!

[Twdft]

Low dps does not quallify as hard!

Low dps requires you to play some of the mechanics correctly and isn't that what the dudes complaining lfr would be too easy want?

[HeiAggra]

Low dps requires you to play some of the mechanics correctly and isn't that what the dudes complaining lfr would be too easy want?

On avatar? really?
DPS boss, swap to add, get away of the blast and repeat?
ok...

[Osmeric]

Right! You cant expect people to play the game and beat the boss!

Expecting people to do what they end up not willing to do is not something game designers are allowed to do. Game designers have to adjust their design to the realities of their customers, deplorable as they are.

What LFR needed from the start is a mechanism where individual malfeasance affects the individual, not the whole raid. Your dps sucks? Your reward will suck too.

[kamuimac]

Low dps does not quallify as hard!

but it has to be taken into account - if you set entry barrier to 860 eveyrthing needs to be tuned for 860 itlv - and to the dps that 860 dps are capable of doing

[Easo]

Personally, some dificulty increase would be nice. When you are in Desolate Host fight (it's even named like that), but the Desolate Host itself does not ever appear... it's might be a bit too much.
P.S.
I have found it funny that after wipes people's DPS tend to increase. And I mean more than what Determination would give you. Some people are really here just to /follow.
Because, well, there was 200k-300k back in Emerald Nightmare LFR. When you see the same thing now in ToS, with all the insane gear upgrades thus far, it just screams "AFK", "I don't care, carry me". But then we wipe and they move a bit more, because even they understand that them participating will make the loot drop faster...

[Xeh.-]

They made normal so easy I want to believe its the previous step to LFR removal.

Doesnt really affect me but 1 raid with 4 different difficulties feels like to much and a negative to the game.

Like it or not is a very popular feature.

[Tiwack]

Mutually assured misery = LFR
You'll see the content, sure, but what value does that have if you're not having fun experiencing it?
In LFR, It's a tragedy of the commons.. nobody wanna play but everyone wants the fat loot and the pretty mounts. People do what they have to to look active autoattacking even though they're alt-tabed or watching something on another screen using an ability every 10sec... Just get out if you're not having fun. To boot you're paying for it too. Get out and you'll thank yourself later. It's all just one big grindfest with no end in sight.