Legion is unfriendly to returning players from previous expansions

[Teri]

You know it's BIG difference when you are 13yo with nothing to do beside games and 25yo with a lot of RL stuff? Right?

If you stick to 1 character, with 1 main spec there's no problem with little playtime even.

Multi alting with multiple specs becomes a lot more work obviously. Trust me I went there. That's where things like artifact appearances and legendaries start to count more in terms of time sinks. Even moreso if you insist to keep up WQ/weekly events and whatnot.

[Super Kami Dende]

no, the reason for me and the community I know of, was the opposite, I have to wait for things to happen, I cant play hardcore weekends to fill up my week, id have to play every day to get results. plus there isn't any prestige at the end

You can play Hardcore easily on a Weekend. Apart from emissary Chests which stack up to 3 days, you don't have to wait for anything to happen. Prestige is also a Copout reason people try to use as a reason to hate on newer expansions. Chances are if you talk about Prestige, you weren't someone that had it anyway.

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You know it's BIG difference when you are 13yo with nothing to do beside games and 25yo with a lot of RL stuff? Right?

I was a Fulltime Working adult when I started in Vanilla. Vanilla was just shitty grinds for 99% of it.

[Ferrair]

You are alone in this.

Well.. not really, I'm sure there are plenty of other people that think Legion somehow has this super high barrier to be able to catch up. But like you they would just be complaining for the sake of it, since you can get a character from level 1-raid ready within 3 weeks of Casual play.

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If grinding doesn't have a goal in Legion, then that means you aren't grinding... Also the 3rd Relic doesn't take a week. It was reduced to taking a few hours like 6 months ago.

Literally 99% of the people that complain about Legion are people just going "OMFG BLIZZARD WANTS ME TO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME!!! GRIND!!" most of these people have never actually played a game with an actual Grind.

Did you not read my post? I grinded for a chest piece, that was a specific, clear path towards a specific goal.

If you want a chest piece in Legion, you grinded for the chest piece OR Warforged OR socket OR War+Socket OR Titanforged OR TF+Socket.

So if i want TF+Socket, i need to grind endlessly, praying for RNG to drop the chest + praying for RNG to drop the chest AND TF+Socket whereas in Vanilla, i just had to hope for good RNG to drop the chest.

There is no set path towards your goal, when you finally put in the work, grinding like a mad man, you get RNG on top of RNG.

I wanted my mage bracers, so i did content, all of it, to increase my bad luck protection. Prior to 7.1.5, i saved up 50+ emissary boxes, did tons of m+, ran every LFR/normal/heroic EN, did i grind content? Sure, did i get my bracers after all that? Nope. This was what eventually wore me down, grinding for a chance at a Legendary only to get one you don't even want. Eventually, i got 12 legendaries, finally getting my bracers but i realised frost mages were better, so i grinded again, got my ring and magtheridon only to realise, i need to grind my relics as well.

I go to a casino, play the slot machine, i put in a coin, machine spins, i win or i don't, that's vanilla.

I go to a casino, play the slot machine, i put in a coin, it may or may not give me 1 credit, if i manage to spin it, it may or may not register my spin, if it does spin, i may or may not win. Welcome to Legion.

But yeah, brush me off as a "OMG I DONT WANNA GRIND I WANT ALL MY REWARDS WHEN I LOGIN" player.

[Drpizka]

If you think this expansion is fun, then time should not be an obstacle.

Just play at your own pace and enjoy, none is forcing you to rush.

[MrExcelion]

AK/AP is in a ok spot (for now), but getting optimal legendaries still sucks, no doubt. Pretty large power gap depending on the spec you're trying to raid with. ie: Mage 2pcT19+4T20 with Shard/Mags vastly trumps the majority of other available legendaries out there

[Incarnia]

Closer to the beginning of the expansion I'd agree to some extent with you. They have fixed a lot of the time gating issues and implemented pretty decent catch up mechanics. A returning player should not face much issues catching up and engage in the type of content they want to do, they already got knowledge of "how to play this game" so to speak, a completely new player though? Gee ye then I believe things could feel very unfriendly, slow, confusing and boring to the point where they might quit before actually getting to experiencing this game to its full potential.

[chazus]

If you made it through my wall of text do tell me, am I alone? Or is the barrier to entry just too high at this point? Should a grumpy old bastard like myself that spends too much time in front of a computer for work all day maybe just give up and move on?

What time gating barriers, exactly?

The only time gate barrier I see is (if you didn't play this expansion at all) is Artifact Knowledge 25-40, which is going to take a bit longer but that's just 'more power', really. It doesn't affect gameplay at all, besides killing things faster.

[Deleted]

Honestly, with a 120km\day from home to work, a second occasional job, gdr | friends | girl stuff to do, i was able to enjoy Legion at the level that was okay for me. If you pretend to push m15+ & hero-mythic raiding with this life schedule, no, the problem is not the expansion but the sleeping time

[Teri]

As an example: I'm someone who loves Story. I would love to complete the zones, unlock my flying, hit all the dungeons and do Suramar, hit LFR and get the story for all the raids and do the broken shore. Unfortunately I'd also have to get my artifact traits, click on mission tables, wait for timers to count down and daily limits on quest content to unlock. These things aren't fun. They get in the way of fun. And that's a shame.

- Class campaign, easy now with 1 hour missions
- Suramar - easy now, they added a lot more WQ compared to the beginning, more rep gains per day.
- Suramar #2 No time gating on Insurrection optional questline after you're done with the main part, leading to the manasaber mount.
- Broken shore , No time gating after getting like 35 traits, 1500 rep per quest. Revered is super easy.

Now if you play many characters I agree it's a lot more work and it's starting to burn me out the more characters I made.

Stick to 1 character and there's no issue and less burn out, and it means all time goes into the same artifact, same legendary bad luck protection, same honor ranks etc.

I spread my time across 5-8 characters and basicly got prestige 1-3 on multiple characters, also many weapons at 52-55 traits.

If I put my time into 1 character I would have been a lot further in terms of AP/honor whatever, but gameplay even then would have bored me out as I mostly play solo and find the game not so much for me anymore and is starting to not fit in my current "life" schedule.

Also I played this game pretty much from 2004-2013 non stop, then had a 3 year break, and now after 11 months of legion starting to reach the point of maybe quitting again just due to how my real life situation is.

[Super Kami Dende]

Did you not read my post? I grinded for a chest piece, that was a specific, clear path towards a specific goal.

If you want a chest piece in Legion, you grinded for the chest piece OR Warforged OR socket OR War+Socket OR Titanforged OR TF+Socket.

So if i want TF+Socket, i need to grind endlessly, praying for RNG to drop the chest + praying for RNG to drop the chest AND TF+Socket whereas in Vanilla, i just had to hope for good RNG to drop the chest.

There is no set path towards your goal, when you finally put in the work, grinding like a mad man, you get RNG on top of RNG.

I wanted my mage bracers, so i did content, all of it, to increase my bad luck protection. Prior to 7.1.5, i saved up 50+ emissary boxes, did tons of m+, ran every LFR/normal/heroic EN, did i grind content? Sure, did i get my bracers after all that? Nope. This was what eventually wore me down, grinding for a chance at a Legendary only to get one you don't even want. Eventually, i got 12 legendaries, finally getting my bracers but i realised frost mages were better, so i grinded again, got my ring and magtheridon only to realise, i need to grind my relics as well.

I go to a casino, play the slot machine, i put in a coin, machine spins, i win or i don't, that's vanilla.

I go to a casino, play the slot machine, i put in a coin, it may or may not give me 1 credit, if i manage to spin it, it may or may not register my spin, if it does spin, i may or may not win. Welcome to Legion.

But yeah, brush me off as a "OMG I DONT WANNA GRIND I WANT ALL MY REWARDS WHEN I LOGIN" player.

You grinding en masse for 1 piece of specific gear =/= the game being unfriendly to returning players. You can do 99% of the games content without needing to grind. Which does not affect 99.9% of people that could return to play.

YOu literally are just complaining and trying to make people think there is a problem where there actually isn't one.

[Brewhan]

I've played on and off since september 2006. I was hardcore most of TBC-WOTLK then went casual or long gaps (6months+ ) without playing. I went a little more hard again in MOP but then just straight botted all of WoD mostly after the first month . I've just gotten bored of the game and gearing process overall. The community is toxic and i've lost all the adventure and thrill of the game. I recently installed DCUO for the first time playing it im having a blast actually going at my own pace. Outside of that ive been looking into single player RPGS (witcher series 1-3 never played them so slowly going through 1 atm)/ skyrim special edition / and kingdom of amalur. Those keep me busy enough and enjoy the progression.

[Granyala]

Legion has WAY too much time-gating. Way too many single-expansion timesinks. Too many bars to fill. Too many Arbitrary Magic Fun Points to grind. Not enough things carried between characters or specs.

As someone who basically went inactive shorly after HFC was released and only returned for a few months upon Legion release:

Yes the classes changed so much that I barely recognized some of them but that's to be expected upon addon release.
I also agree that there is (was?) too much time gating, esp the suramar reputation was a little over the top. Also, the whole busywork for "staying in shape" compared to other players adds up and ends up being draining and unfun (to me).

Other than that: Legion is a decent expac but WoW can't keep me engaged permanently as a non raider, so I'll wait for the Argus patch to chime back in for a month.

[Teri]

As someone who basically went inactive shorly after HFC was released and only returned for a few months upon Legion release:

Yes the classes changed so much that I barely recognized some of them but that's to be expected upon addon release.
I also agree that there is too much time gating, esp the suramar reputation was a little over the top. Also, the whole busywork for "staying in shape" compared to other players adds up and ends up being draining and unfun (to me).

Legendaries imo are far worse then Suramar rep (after 7.1.5) since they are so RNG, and require raid/dungeon or Emmisaries to keep up the droprates, and even then, if you play multiple classes or specs there's simply too many of them to enjoy.

I'm a non raider as well btw (for legion at least)

[Feel The Power]

You know it's BIG difference when you are 13yo with nothing to do beside games and 25yo with a lot of RL stuff? Right?

Then perhaps MMORPGS aren't the best game to be playing when someone has no time and wants instant gratification?

[Deleted]

As an example: I'm someone who loves Story. I would love to complete the zones, unlock my flying, hit all the dungeons and do Suramar, hit LFR and get the story for all the raids and do the broken shore. Unfortunately I'd also have to get my artifact traits, click on mission tables, wait for timers to count down and daily limits on quest content to unlock. These things aren't fun. They get in the way of fun. And that's a shame.

Have you played recently? Most of these things have long been solved. There is no more artifact power grind. Broken Shore and Class Campaigns aren't time gated anymore. Reputations are pretty much optional.

[Lochton]

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

You know, I have to agree with you. A lot. When you look back to then, and now. And as so, Legion isn't that unfriendly, EVERYONE had to go through the gating, break or not. Oh, and btw, you're having it EASIER than players whom was here from the start. 3 low yield AP tokens and the majority of your weapon is done. Took me about 2 weeks to get to fully complete my weapon - and that was with slacking.

Only unfriendly thing I can think of that the OP shouldn't already have experienced through previous expansions - is that the older LFR queues are longer, or hardly touched. That is about it. Yes, you have time gating back as said, SO DID EVERYONE ELSE.

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You know it's BIG difference when you are 13yo with nothing to do beside games and 25yo with a lot of RL stuff? Right?

Then things shouldn't be taken as serious, at all. I'm 30, married, working and have a child - those comes first, then the rest. Just only now in ToS that I had to step back as a heavy raider, just to spare time for other things. And my saying would be, if your complaint is about not being able to complete things, then maybe look at a game with less progression or attention attachment. MMO's should have a lot that deems work, if you want a fast game, then you go to a lobby game such as CS:GO, OW, LoL etc etc etc etc.

[Granyala]

Legendaries imo are far worse then Suramar rep (after 7.1.5) since they are so RNG, and require raid/dungeon or Emmisaries to keep up the droprates, and even then, if you play multiple classes or specs there's simply too many of them to enjoy.

Uuh to be frank: I find them all underwhelming and not exciting. I don#t get why people fuss out over them.
Maybe that is because I did the Tarecgosa questline back when it was current. An awesome model, unique effect and interesting story. That is what gets me excited, because those memories and the models live on far far beyond the next patch/expansion that invalidates all stats anyway.

Not some often invisible or generic looking lame RNG stat stick.

[Deleted]

I agree with Legion being very unfriendly for returning Warcraft 2 players.

[Doctor Amadeus]

As someone who hasn't played since WoD I wouldn't come back expecting people to be friendly, I wouldn't expect them to be rude or an asshole either, but frankly I rather they did, so I know from the start who I am dealing with and not bother trying to contribute to any group of the lot.

Otherwise if they aren't friendly ok, are they decent? I recognize no as I did then if I have something to prove it terms of my weight, and the ability to contribute and what not then hook me up.

Once you established your ability beyond numbers and you can roll without unreasonable expectations from the beginning, you typically by the right people will fit right in and be pretty damn valuable.

It's really that simple, sometimes peoples personalities conflict and that is what it is, but if you are over all pleasant and can put in, you should be fine. Friendliness will come especially when people want shit, then it becomes about how much they give. In those cases I have had to walk, because I realized maybe too late I was dealing with people and a group of the wrong fit.

[Teri]

Uuh to be frank: I find them all underwhelming and not exciting. I don#t get why people fuss out over them.
Maybe that is because I did the Tarecgosa questline back when it was current. An awesome model, unique effect and interesting story. That is what gets me excited, because those memories and the models live on far far beyond the next patch/expansion that invalidates all stats anyway.

Not some often invisible or generic looking lame RNG stat stick.

I agree legion legendaries are stupid and boring, and there's so many of them, a new/returning player still needs to put in a lot of work.

Like I got 8 characters, obviously 5 are older, more developed, I got like 5-8 legendaries on those, doing most emmisaries, and LFR each week, no M+ or daily heroic tho.

Actual raiders/M+ might get them at a decent pace but for "casual" or altoholics there's just too many boring and bad legendaries in the mix even after many attempts to fix them.

I do remember most legendary questlines up through Cata cause I raided with people who got them as well. (didnt play end of MoP or WoD) I still remember the whole Scarab Lord opening of AQ on US Argent Dawn, and that's like 11 years ago, memories live on, but Legion doesn't feel memorable for me as solo player atm :P