Ret Paladin + WW Monk have no spot in ToS

[Coldvibes]

If I'm not mistaken isn't frost dk the current worst spec in the game????

[Anbokr]

Sadly most melee specs don't have a spot.

Arms was brought for OP damage and rogues for soaks. After tuesday what the hell is the advantage of bringing a melee to this raid? Just bring a few rogues and fill the rest with frost mage / boomies / warlocks / spriests/ hunters. Very low incentive to bring any melee that isn't overtuned (and after tomorrow most melee will equally suck ).

[dreamdaddy]

If I'm not mistaken isn't frost dk the current worst spec in the game????

Frost DK and Ele Sham are in a rough spot right now. Unholy is really good though. Ele Sham, Rets, and WWs don't have the luxury of simply respecing though as they don't have options that fulfill the same role (counting ranged dps as a diff role than melee because group comp matters on a number of Mythic fights).

[Korban]

Unhappy Ret Paladin + WW Monk have no spot in ToS

Thanks for the tip. I won't take these classes anymore.

[Orangetai420]

Lol, no all classes are not viable.

You don't know what viable means then. Not all classes are optimal is what you meant to say.

[Aggrophobic]

You don't know what viable means then. Not all classes are optimal is what you meant to say.

Actually, no. Thats not at all what I meant to say.

[Deleted]

We got a retri paladin in our raid team and it's quite viable

[Michael000]

TL : DR if you raid on a team w/ competitive DPS slots then no it has no spot as you're not likely to do better numbers as almost everyone short of a couple classes has a far far higher ceiling.

[BiggestNoob]

Ret was better than WW, Havoc, and Frost DK, it wasn't too far behind but it got buffed and so did Frost DK, but for some reason they left Havoc and WW alone.

Nobody will ever understand the Blizzard balancing team, it's almost certain at this point that they have a dartboard and they sit around doing literally anything else. Havoc would be trivially fixed by making BD/DS chaos damage like everything else is so mastery isn't shit and the cleave is quite improved, for instance, but instead they got a 2% buff at 7.2.5 with a huge mastery nerf and are now one of the weakest for most fights in mythic ToS.

That said, it doesn't really matter for most groups, a well played Frost DK will beat badly played <insert top DPS class here>.

[Deleted]

That's easy when 95% of the people who play this game are utter trash.

Black and white is all you can see?
Or you just have the need to feel important on your high horse?

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Who cares about heroic?

Much more players than those who care about mythic, for sure.

[Aggrophobic]

Black and white is all you can see?
Or you just have the need to feel important on your high horse?

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Much more players than those who care about mythic, for sure.

Maybe but balance doesn't matter in HC. It's free loot more or less.

[Bugg]

For some, this game is not about being top dps. Some of us are not twitch streamers or raiders in a top mythic guild.
Some of us play because we actually enjoy a spec that does mediocre damage and has low/no raid utility.

Reading posts and threads that bitch about things like 'Spec X is useless! Worst spec ever! ' I can't help but feel pity for the persons that have such a limited and narrow minded vision.

[Ebalina]

For some, this game is not about being top dps. Some of us are not twitch streamers or raiders in a top mythic guild.
Some of us play because we actually enjoy a spec that does mediocre damage and has low/no raid utility.

Reading posts and threads that bitch about things like 'Spec X is useless! Worst spec ever! ' I can't help but feel pity for the persons that have such a limited and narrow minded vision.

Narrowminded are the ones who are in contempt with sucking and choosing a severly gimped class to perform in raiding scene and feel their excuse of enjoying the game is valid.
OMEGALUL

[Deleted]

Both Ret and WW are seeing changes in the next patch wich should hitting soon. It's too late for the top ones, but it may be fixed soon. Fingers crossed. I enjoy both specs atm. Ret is boring but the highlord ring and the 2x set bonus made it substancially faster paced for me and i'm finding some enjoyment in it.

[dylansp]

If you're melee and don't play rogue, you have no place in ToS.
Well arms does for 3 more days but after that, it's rogue or get lost.

It's the way Blizzard wants it, deal with it.

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Lol, no all classes are not viable.

The OP is talking about pugs, which is normal and heroic. Every class is viable in normal and heroic. Just because guilds stack classes in top world kills doesn't mean it's what they used or nothing.

[cface]

I benched my pally for my arms after NH... the arms is 10 gear levs behind and about 10 on weapon, also no setbonus and still do about the same (slightly lower) cleave (for those two bosses where it's useful) and higher ST on the other bosses compared to my "pimped" pally. Also pally got all bis leggos while my warrior lacks the imba ring.

makes me sad, but whatever, I have more fun playing something competitive and also fun to play a class that can move.... ret's biggest problem (after ST damage) is that it turns worthless due to lack of movement.

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Sorry but this is one of the most dragged on and stupid comments that comes on these kind of threads.... Yes you can play whatever.. BUT everyone will probably want to feel competitive, feel there is an upside on your class, feel that u actually helping out more than getting carried due to a sucky spec... so ffs, YEAH you CAN clear HC TOS with only retri paladin as you only dps.. but that still doesnt valid as a response....

If you truly are so drawn to being competitive, why do you play wow? Pick a game on the side that fills you this aspect, I did, and it works. You're not getting carried in raids due to you being on 7th/8th place rather then top 3.

[Deleted]

Why is class balance in heroic even discussed? The game is not balanced around it. When they made mythic difficulty and squeezed 10 and 25 man modes into a 20 man mode even boss balancing outside of 20 man flew outta window. Basically every boss since HM has been easier as 30man vs 10 man. Also you can prolly clear entire HC by bringing 2 tanks and 8 disc priests. If you optimize for dps you should he able to make the enrage timers still. Does that make disc a viable dps spec?


I think it is pretty fair to say that enha, ww and frost are weak specs. Either your spec brings utility (shout from warriors, darkness from DHs, basically only 2 raid cds from non healers), ability to soak (#TombOfSoakgeras) or top dps. Dk brings grip which is general useful for 1-2 bosses per raid and decent damage in UH spec, enha brings nothing, ww brings small movement bonus, but not big enough to for example drop the 2x roar requirement at mythic KJ. Retri actually brings the ability to soak, bop for few bosses, wisdom and middle of the pack dps. I think it basically makes them #4 melee class overall for mythic. Too bad stacking the top 3 has been the way to go for top guilds.

Basically though as long as the classes with all the utility also end up being top dps specs, bottom dps specs with no utility will remain underused. If WW or enha had shout instead of warriors, odds are we would see 1 for tightly tuned hps check bosses with high raid damage bursts.

Ps. Notice how I didn't mention ferals at all? They have the ability to choose a top performing spec on all 3 roles instead, that's feral utility for you. xD

[Dawon]

If you truly are so drawn to being competitive, why do you play wow? Pick a game on the side that fills you this aspect, I did, and it works. You're not getting carried in raids due to you being on 7th/8th place rather then top 3.

But seriously, what kind of reply is that? "If you dont like 1% of the game, STOP PLAYING!"... eh, or I simply reroll another class that is better u'know? I don't wanna quit wow, I'm not super competitive... I just want to have a good feeling when playing and I don't if I know that I'd do much better (with the exact same effort) if I just changed to another class I already have geared AND also like to play.

Why all these super drastic responses from people? Are you like that IRL too? "WELL, this restaurant have a shitty color on that wall other by the entrance, let's eat somewhere else!"

[cface]

But seriously, what kind of reply is that? "If you dont like 1% of the game, STOP PLAYING!"... eh, or I simply reroll another class that is better u'know? I don't wanna quit wow, I'm not super competitive... I just want to have a good feeling when playing and I don't if I know that I'd do much better (with the exact same effort) if I just changed to another class I already have geared AND also like to play.

Why all these super drastic responses from people? Are you like that IRL too? "WELL, this restaurant have a shitty color on that wall other by the entrance, let's eat somewhere else!"

Ok I'm gonna try again, with your restaurant analogy. I'm eating at mcdonalds, I would still have a good time. If I wanted to eat really good food, I'd go somewhere else, cause I crave high quality. I wouldn't stop going to the mcdonalds entirely cause I'm salty cause reasons..
So you want competition out of a game with 41 specs, only these specs have never been balanced. So you have to do lottery fotm classes just to feel good on numbers. Cause for you, being top 3 or top 10, is what matters for you feeling good.
I simply suggest that you do not drop wow, just play another game that gets this competitive side of you satisfied. You have time to do it, since you clearly have time to instant reroll fotm classes.
This is you expecting mcdonalds to be 5 star restaurant, when it isn't. It's good for what it does, but don't expect more.

[Aggrophobic]

The OP is talking about pugs, which is normal and heroic. Every class is viable in normal and heroic. Just because guilds stack classes in top world kills doesn't mean it's what they used or nothing.

Yeah, well in pugs where there is little coordination, having classes that can solo soak stuff is even more important.
Ret might be saved by a few fixes but monks or feral druids have no place in ToS.