Legion is unfriendly to returning players from previous expansions

[stomination]

You know it's BIG difference when you are 13yo with nothing to do beside games and 25yo with a lot of RL stuff? Right?

Well that's when u decide upon going more casual or not.

[Aggrophobic]

Class Hall quests are shorter now compared to release and getting traits is no problem now because they sped up artifact research, only problem is legendaries but it shouldn't matter much really as you get first two legendaries very easily.

The two first might be shit though.
Some classes do not actually work without the right ones.

[tikcol]

You had to farm the mats and the recipes which in turn meant that you had to farm certain reputations (cenarion in silithus comes to mind for nature resist gear). The meat wall to fight Huhuran in nature resist gear meant an entire guild had to spend time farming. So ye we can play with words or we can admit the facts. Vanilla had sick grinds but then again it also had players willing to do them.

There's no facts about what you just said. I'm sure you just quickly google searched about resist gear in vanilla. Too bad your knowledge is just that.

You fail to mention that only 15 people in that raid needed resist gear for that boss. Which would most of the time be given to them by the guild itself. You're also being incredibly disingenuous because it is a fact that only a tiny amount of fights in vanilla, or tbc ,for that matter required resist gear.

There were grinds in vanilla but farming resist gear wasn't one of them. It's a dumb example.

[zeoos]

Another QQ thread.
I don't get why people that don't raid or do any high end content need their legendaries.
If you have time to raid or do mythic+15 where those legendaries are required, you have time to grind for them.
You can't expect for blizzard to put the PTR vendors inside the game and make everyone happy.
Higher gear and higher content is for people that have time and like the grind, for the other ones, go do your wq and pet battles.

[h4rr0d]

Dinged my priest Thursday in the night, spent the weekend playing it. Tonight, after I unlock 3rd relic, 2 leggo slots (got the crafted shoulders), concordance and get couple more bloods to upgrade more crafted gear, I will be heroic ToS raid ready.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...-blade/mylejdy

If you know what you are doing, you can get very far, very quickly. Sure, I had slight help from guild (the ToS normal boost) and from my main (insta AK40 and a bunch of order resources), but I'm also planning on switching mains, so this was really pushing it. If you are new player, some things will take longer, but you also have nowhere to hurry...

[Granyala]

MMORPG is for raiders, always been since the dawn of time.

Past the first month(s) of leveling and initial story: Absolutely agreed.

[tikcol]

Your arguments are laughable at best. Im sure you are pretty butthurt that there are still people around that have been there done that and you can only imagine what it was like so let me break down for someone like you who started wow in MoP at best:
but you wouldn't know because you haven't been there.
the difference between being a pleb who couldnt kill ragnaros
I am sorry for you that you missed vanilla because you was obviously not even born back then, but insulting me and whining won't help.
I bet you don't even have a clue what Im talking about because well you wasn't there matey

You're behaving like a child now

[FelPlague]

you are not alone, I Quit for the same reason, its a tablet game now with some badass pve going on, and pvp is dead

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no, the reason for me and the community I know of, was the opposite, I have to wait for things to happen, I cant play hardcore weekends to fill up my week, id have to play every day to get results. plus there isn't any prestige at the end

yes you can, you can do all the world quests over a weekend, do all the raids, and do all the M+ you want
actually this expansion has been better then every for just being able to "Binge" on a weekend, back before legion you had to log on every day to do dailies, now its only once every 3 days ish
stop trying to cherry pick arguments that dont work

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Little background on myself for context: I've been playing Warcraft games since 1996 and became a fan of the lore since I first opened the Warcraft 2 manual when I was 13. I missed launch but I started playing WoW in February 2005. Like many of us old-schoolers I was fairly hardcore playing with friends right up through Wrath, then started falling into a more casual playstyle during Cata-onwards with long breaks as content dried up.

I was disgusted with Warlords. Disgusted. Lazy, bad expansion. We all know that. Nothing new to say. On paper I love to see what's happened with Legion. Regular content updates, something for everyone, a return to dungeons, more raids, better world content in patches, MORE patches, a seemingly-infinite flow of new stuff to do. Shame it's too grindy.

Legion has WAY too much time-gating. Way too many single-expansion timesinks. Too many bars to fill. Too many Arbitrary Magic Fun Points to grind. Not enough things carried between characters or specs.

As an example: I'm someone who loves Story. I would love to complete the zones, unlock my flying, hit all the dungeons and do Suramar, hit LFR and get the story for all the raids and do the broken shore. Unfortunately I'd also have to get my artifact traits, click on mission tables, wait for timers to count down and daily limits on quest content to unlock. These things aren't fun. They get in the way of fun. And that's a shame.

If you made it through my wall of text do tell me, am I alone? Or is the barrier to entry just too high at this point? Should a grumpy old bastard like myself that spends too much time in front of a computer for work all day maybe just give up and move on?

The barrier is not as high as you imagine. You skip to high Artifact Knowledge as soon as you ding 110 now, so the weapon fills up almost immediately. There's a vendor selling 880 gear, LFR giving away 885, and a world boss with 900. All of it WFs and TFs. You can buy 900 gear from the AH and even your second legendary. Your first legendary is practically guaranteed to drop you first week if you play much at all.

If you decide to come back, and play a fair amount, you can be geared enough to raid Heroic within a couple of weeks.

None of which is me saying you should. There are lots of ways to enjoy life. Find one that makes you happy.

[Logwyn]

You're not alone. As someone who studies and has a job, I just can't see how I can keep up, so I quit. Even though the expansion is really fun, it's too time consuming for me.

I still don't get this. What is this or who is the "can['t] keep up" with? Why can't you just play the game at your own pace? Who is the "Joneses" you are in a race with?

I have a job and go to school as well. I found a guild and raid two or three times a week for 2 hours. It may not be a server first guild and definitely not a world first guild either. Just a bunch of people that enjoy our own pace and doing what we can do.

So who can you not keep up with? Or better why are you trying to keep up with anyone else?

[Echocho]

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

Maybe he has grown up and have less time on his hands? Maybe the grind in vanilla was finite and the grind in Legion isn't? Who knows.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

You could buy most of it.

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Anyway, it may seem unfriendly but unfriendly doesn't mean oppressive. You can still play the game at your own pace and enjoy it but do realize you took a year off of an expansion. If you expect things to be easy you are part of what has ruined this game.

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Also you don't have to get artifact power to see stories.no clue what you are in about. Sounds like you are just crying with that type of comment. You can still play the game as you always have. Nothing has changed in that front. The order hall takes a full day to complete at most.

[Deleted]

TBH i don't really see that much time-gating going on...
i'm leveling my 9th char from 100 to 110 at the moment.

The only time-gates i see there would be the 2 hour missions you get to do 4 of.
Perhaps also the AK, which can be bought almost instantly nowadays anyway; and doesn't matter as much it did before anyway.

You could buy most of it.

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Anyway, it may seem unfriendly but unfriendly doesn't mean oppressive. You can still play the game at your own pace and enjoy it but do realize you took a year off of an expansion. If you expect things to be easy you are part of what has ruined this game.

Sure you could buy everything... but with which gold?

yes you can, you can do all the world quests over a weekend, do all the raids, and do all the M+ you want
actually this expansion has been better then every for just being able to "Binge" on a weekend, back before legion you had to log on every day to do dailies, now its only once every 3 days ish
stop trying to cherry pick arguments that dont work

You don't understand; they want all of the WQs of the week to just sit there and wait for them 7 days; because they want to be optimal without putting in the time...

[Cassidin]

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

I would have thought this was obvious: There is a big difference between farming for hours 11 years ago, and farming now. 11 years ago many people had more time. 11 years ago people may have been kids with no responsibilities but now that's not the case. Do YOU have as much time now as you had 11 years ago?

[FelPlague]

TBH i don't really see that much time-gating going on...
i'm leveling my 9th char from 100 to 110 at the moment.

The only time-gates i see there would be the 2 hour missions you get to do 4 of.
Perhaps also the AK, which can be bought almost instantly nowadays anyway; and doesn't matter as much it did before anyway.



Sure you could buy everything... but with which gold?


You don't understand; they want all of the WQs of the week to just sit there and wait for them 7 days; because they want to be optimal without putting in the time...

yes because back in WotLK and BC, those daily quests just piled up all the time till the weekend right? wasent the game so good back then when you could just log on, and do the whole weeks worth of dailies on the weekend?

[Deleted]

I would have thought this was obvious: There is a big difference between farming for hours 11 years ago, and farming now. 11 years ago many people had more time. 11 years ago people may have been kids with no responsibilities but now that's not the case. Do YOU have as much time now as you had 11 years ago?

Most people ofc don't... but then again actually farming isn't as obligatory as it was back in the day.
And it takes just a fraction of the time it did in vanilla/TBC.

yes because back in WotLK and BC, those daily quests just piled up all the time till the weekend right? wasent the game so good back then when you could just log on, and do the whole weeks worth of dailies on the weekend?

I was just further ridiculing their entitlement; don't get me wrong i'm with you on this one.

[FelPlague]

I would have thought this was obvious: There is a big difference between farming for hours 11 years ago, and farming now. 11 years ago many people had more time. 11 years ago people may have been kids with no responsibilities but now that's not the case. Do YOU have as much time now as you had 11 years ago?

yes but that is the players fault, not the game designers

[MasterHamster]

You shouldn't be playing MMORPGs if anything that is time-consuming or gated in some way is, to you, nothing but another box on the checklist to be finished before I can enjoy the game.

But hey, at least when it comes to the bigger picture, it's better to have people whining about "alt-unfriendliness" and other crap, that means Legion is keeping players busy. It's just unfortunate that so many people that remain doesn't really come to terms with the fact that they don't enjoy the game anymore. If RNG, time-gates, rep farming, repeating zones, WQs and questlines, TF and farming raids is nothing but Blizzards evil scheme to keep you playing, maybe you should play something else?

Or at least acknowledge that the fact that your alt not being on par with your main 5 days after hitting 110 doesn't qualify as alt-unfriendly. Classic and to some extent BC were alt-unfriendly, if you're going with the asinine argument that things to do before you're raiding on the same level as your main is unfriendly to alts.

[FelPlague]

Most people ofc don't... but then again actually farming isn't as obligatory as it was back in the day.
And it takes just a fraction of the time it did in vanilla/TBC.


I was just further ridiculing their entitlement; don't get me wrong i'm with you on this one.

(I think you missed how i was also on your side :P)

[Daedius]

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

Grinding then had a goal, reaching exalted and such... getting whatever off and you're done.

In Legion, it's endless grinding for a chance at things... in particular the reputation mounts (Outside of raiding I'm a collector). Grind out WQs for rep for a very small chance [3%] for a mount... Gear? There are always those procs, as a carrot-on-a-stick incentive, to get a better version so you keep trying, on various difficulties and raids [been a high-tier difficulty raider since WotLK, but got swiftly demoted to social for refusing to partake in this stupidity]. Got that 915(900+15)+Socket trinket? Now try to get a 925(900+25)+Socket+Tertiary stat! 'Mandatory' legendaries... Yeah... fuck that.

Legion will forever be the Burn Out expansion to me. Got the 10k WQs achievement, don't have a single mount yet from those Paragon caches... /woo

Be delusional if you want, but Blizzard have really gone out of their way this expansion to make people play their game for as much and as long as possible... the change to reputation mounts from vendor to RNG is proof of this. I wouldn't have an issue with this if it were a F2P game, but this game's P2P... and this direction they're going in disgusts me.