Disc for the next exp.

[MendUS]

My experience: raided as Disc almost a decade, on hardest difficulties. Leveled at least 6 Discs, and at times raided with 2 Disc in the same tier. This is the first time I quit raiding because of the spec. It just feel too clunky, and number of Disc still raiding speaks volumes. Hoping for a full rewamp.

> Disc has been easy until Legion
> People quit playing Disc because it was too hard to grasp, including yourself

I think the fact that Disc has had representation in the world first race by every guild that was competing in ToS and the results of the people who do play the spec speaks volumes. The spec isn't easy, but it performs well if played well. Have you played it since 7.2.5 at all?

[Nurasu]

My experience: raided as Disc almost a decade, on hardest difficulties. Leveled at least 6 Discs, and at times raided with 2 Disc in the same tier. This is the first time I quit raiding because of the spec. It just feel too clunky, and number of Disc still raiding speaks volumes. Hoping for a full rewamp.

I've also raided with it for almost a decade, and I think the revamp we got for Legion was really refreshing. I finally don't have my co-healers bitching about my absorbs. The rest seems a little obsessive I think Disc numbers are artificially low, though, because of the Legendary and artifact systems; most of us didn't know how Disc was going to pan out at the start of the expansion, where Holy was already looking to be consistent. As has been the case with a lot of other specs, people invested heavily into one and now can't really be bothered to try to switch, especially for something that takes some warming up to. I think there would be a lot more if switching was more fluid and people could try it out more easily. Just my 2 cents.

- - - Updated - - -

> Disc has been easy until Legion
> People quit playing Disc because it was too hard to grasp, including yourself

I think the fact that Disc has had representation in the world first race by every guild that was competing in ToS and the results of the people who do play the spec speaks volumes. The spec isn't easy, but it performs well if played well. Have you played it since 7.2.5 at all?

Agreed with this as well; it's just plain harder than it was before (reminds me a lot of MoP Mistweaver, actually). Holy is more comfortable and familiar for a lot of players, I think.

[Kuruption]

My experience: raided as Disc almost a decade, on hardest difficulties. Leveled at least 6 Discs, and at times raided with 2 Disc in the same tier. This is the first time I quit raiding because of the spec. It just feel too clunky, and number of Disc still raiding speaks volumes. Hoping for a full rewamp.

Odd, I'm the complete opposite. Hated disc in expansions past, now I love the spec. And the fact Method brought one to most of the fights confirms it does well. Granted, I don't do Mythic because I don't want to, but I'm still having a blast playing it.

[phyx]

> Disc has been easy until Legion
> People quit playing Disc because it was too hard to grasp, including yourself

I think the fact that Disc has had representation in the world first race by every guild that was competing in ToS and the results of the people who do play the spec speaks volumes. The spec isn't easy, but it performs well if played well. Have you played it since 7.2.5 at all?

I like it how you drew conclusion immediately about how I play. What is the point of making the spec hard if no one wants to play it? Also, have you ever considered the possibility that it is just designed badly? You know what, don't bother answering. You are a member of that 5 Disc Priest Elite group on the forums that cannot handle any critisism about the spec. I'm looking forward to the rewamp.

[laplacedemon]

> Disc has been easy until Legion
> People quit playing Disc because it was too hard to grasp, including yourself

I kinda disagree with this. I've been playing disc since ICC and most of the time (except WoD), it revolved around doing something (preshielding, AA+pre-PoHing, AA+Spirit Shelling, AA+pre-Haloing or Radiance+Evangelism) 10-15 secs before big AoE. I don't really get where people get the idea that disc is too hard now, it's core game play hasn't really changed that much.

And I really think 7.2.5 disc has been the best iteration since... well, forever.

[MendUS]

I kinda disagree with this. I've been playing disc since ICC and most of the time (except WoD), it revolved around doing something (preshielding, AA+pre-PoHing, AA+Spirit Shelling, AA+pre-Haloing or Radiance+Evangelism) 10-15 secs before big AoE. I don't really get where people get the idea that disc is too hard now, it's core game play hasn't really changed that much.

And I really think 7.2.5 disc has been the best iteration since... well, forever.

Disc isn't hard now by any means; it's harder than past iterations just because of how the Atonement mechanic works. Mind you, I'm talking skill floor here, which is directly tied to the number of people who are likely to play the spec, not the skill ceiling which I think you were eluding to. WoD Disc even had some pretty engaging mechanics that made it fun to min-max at higher levels of play, however, they would only yield a relatively small increase in performance compared to today. Now, you need to have a fundamental understanding of the spec and encounter to compete. 7.2.5 definitely made this less unforgiving, but that gap still exists between those who play reactively versus those who play proactively.

[Adaren]

I'm a newly converted Priest and absolutely love Disc. I can't imagine maiming any other healer over it.

[jag5268]

I love disc the way it is now. It feels like it both priest healing specs are well balanced together, each one healing in a different manner. Disc feels truly unique now. I hope it doesn't change.

FYI I hated WoD Disc, it was so easy that I fell asleep during raids. I quit WoD because of how disc was basically Power Shield spam. Legion disc is more engaging than its previous iteration.

[Deleted]

Don't care for absorbs, but also not a fan of current iteration. Would like to have a spec that actually uses healing spells, not focused on trying to DPS. Well, it's not even that. DPS is really just a byproduct of trying to heal using the tools disc has, so it's sort of a up in the air spec, where you're not really a DPS, you don't play like DPS, but all your healing is tied to DPS.

It needs to either go full offensive focus, where you don't have direct control over healing, and rely fully on smart heals, while you focus on doing as much damage as possible. Give it a proper rotation, interesting interaction and move controlled healing to cooldowns. Or go back to either having no atonement, or it being a filler, akin to how heal, healing wave and healing touch work. But in this case disc needs a new identity, because I never felt like DA worked well, as you basically either wasted the healing portion of a spell, or the shield portion. Honestly, I don't have good ideas where it can go, if atonement steps back and shields are not an option.

[Popokolara]

Don't care for absorbs, but also not a fan of current iteration. Would like to have a spec that actually uses healing spells, not focused on trying to DPS. Well, it's not even that. DPS is really just a byproduct of trying to heal using the tools disc has, so it's sort of a up in the air spec, where you're not really a DPS, you don't play like DPS, but all your healing is tied to DPS.

It needs to either go full offensive focus, where you don't have direct control over healing, and rely fully on smart heals, while you focus on doing as much damage as possible. Give it a proper rotation, interesting interaction and move controlled healing to cooldowns. Or go back to either having no atonement, or it being a filler, akin to how heal, healing wave and healing touch work. But in this case disc needs a new identity, because I never felt like DA worked well, as you basically either wasted the healing portion of a spell, or the shield portion. Honestly, I don't have good ideas where it can go, if atonement steps back and shields are not an option.

why dumb it down to nothingless, or make copypaste of the regular healing models? Why does it "need" to be like this?

It is very interesting, the most interesting for many.You are a healer who applies damage in an optimised burst pattern to maximise healing.
That beats wack-a-mole any day.

Interesting interaction and rely fully on smart heal doesnt go together baby.

[MendUS]

I like it how you drew conclusion immediately about how I play. What is the point of making the spec hard if no one wants to play it? Also, have you ever considered the possibility that it is just designed badly? You know what, don't bother answering. You are a member of that 5 Disc Priest Elite group on the forums that cannot handle any critisism about the spec. I'm looking forward to the rewamp.

I can prove to you that Discipline isn't designed poorly. If you want, you can see this by looking at logs yourself and seeing that Discipline is performing just fine, and the people performing that well are enjoying the spec quite a bit. There are more people playing Discipline since 7.2.5 and that number will rise going into 7.3 because people have seen with their own eyes that Discipline is in a better spot now than it was (based on ToS performance). Just because you choose to believe something based on your personal experience with the spec doesn't mean it's true.

As to being some elitist; please GTFO. I spend a majority of every day helping others improve their play. Just because you're too lazy to get better at a perfectly capable spec doesn't mean you're a victim.

[Cheze]

the idea of the legion revamp is very cool and the recent changes were a nice refinement... but it doesn't feel like something they'll ever be able to tune properly. The current iteration also still feels limited in ways that other healers don't: it relies on a really high level of anticipation and setup and struggles much harder when either the player or the circumstances don't allow for that.

personally I think they should roll some of the more interesting disc concepts in with holy via talents, then re-imagine discipline as a ranged DPS spec.

[Deleted]

I think the new itreation is the second best and way better than Wod or Mop (just op). But I liked Cata the most. You couldn't spam PW:Shield, but you had a lot of Tools to react to incoming dmg, if you knew the fight, thanks to AA/Evangelism, Barrier or Inner Focus+Aegis. And I miss Void Shift too.

[phyx]

I can prove to you that Discipline isn't designed poorly. If you want, you can see this by looking at logs yourself and seeing that Discipline is performing just fine, and the people performing that well are enjoying the spec quite a bit. There are more people playing Discipline since 7.2.5 and that number will rise going into 7.3 because people have seen with their own eyes that Discipline is in a better spot now than it was (based on ToS performance). Just because you choose to believe something based on your personal experience with the spec doesn't mean it's true.

As to being some elitist; please GTFO. I spend a majority of every day helping others improve their play. Just because you're too lazy to get better at a perfectly capable spec doesn't mean you're a victim.

I agree that the spec is in a slightly better state than before. You must've talked to hundreds of Disc priests to make such bold statements. You told me to go look at the numbers, to see it for myself, and sure enough, that's exactly what I did.

Number of parses for all healers:

Normal
Druid 181,236
Shaman 143,797
Priest 150,965
Paladin 143,495
Monk 99,448
DISC 44,382

Heroic
Priest 186,565
Shaman 195,167
Druid 224,704
Paladin 193,655
Monk 109,693
DISC 41,478

Mythic
Priest 25,099
Paladin 29,958
Druid 30,748
Shaman 32,633
Monk 10,287
DISC 5,268

I realize I'm talking to a fanboy, but your absolute refusal to maybe a bit more objectively look at the spec is astounding. Even when looking directly at the numbers refuting your claims. What's the purpose of the spec if it's too clunky/complex that no one wants to touch it? It seems your logic boils down to 'If they aren't willing to learn the spec with much, much better understanding than any other class just to be in the middle of the pack, we don't need them! Hundreds of us can keep enjoying the spec!'.

The irony in your quote is so delicious I don't think I will need to eat for the next month.

[Popokolara]

Congratz you proved that people tend to avoid difficulty.Too bad method had to carry that pathetic beta male spec though.

BTW what irony is there in his comment?what is he saying that is false/stupid?
What claim is refuted by his claim? NONE. We used to have 2000 parses in NH, we now have more than 5000 and were not even done with the tier yet. BTW that middle of the pack bullshit- you would not even make such a shitty useless ingorant comment if you realised that 1. where it mattered disc was CHOSEN, 2.for all the rest it doesnt matter, 3. its fucking Goooooooooooooooooood. James carey Gooooooooood.

If only you revisit this thread after you have matured 10 years in emotional iq and realise how absurdly wrong you are and how embarassing this looks.

[MendUS]

I agree that the spec is in a slightly better state than before. You must've talked to hundreds of Disc priests to make such bold statements. You told me to go look at the numbers, to see it for myself, and sure enough, that's exactly what I did.

Number of parses for all healers:

Normal
Druid 181,236
Shaman 143,797
Priest 150,965
Paladin 143,495
Monk 99,448
DISC 44,382

Heroic
Priest 186,565
Shaman 195,167
Druid 224,704
Paladin 193,655
Monk 109,693
DISC 41,478

Mythic
Priest 25,099
Paladin 29,958
Druid 30,748
Shaman 32,633
Monk 10,287
DISC 5,268

I realize I'm talking to a fanboy, but your absolute refusal to maybe a bit more objectively look at the spec is astounding. Even when looking directly at the numbers refuting your claims. What's the purpose of the spec if it's too clunky/complex that no one wants to touch it? It seems your logic boils down to 'If they aren't willing to learn the spec with much, much better understanding than any other class just to be in the middle of the pack, we don't need them! Hundreds of us can keep enjoying the spec!'.

The irony in your quote is so delicious I don't think I will need to eat for the next month.

A couple things you fail to consider:

1. Discipline was harder, but it's not hard or clunky since 7.2.5 from almost everyone who I've heard from who played it at launch and came back. This isn't a subjective observation.

2. People have invested into other Artifacts and have other legendaries that makes switching main specs a not-so-easy task right away. Many people need to farm up proper legendaries or are just discouraged from switching classes again.

You're still trying to equate lower played rates to the spec being poorly designed or performing poorly, which while that may have been moderately true before 7.2.5, that's not the case right now. Discipline, based on the people who play it currently, is performing rather well. Method and Exorsus ran a Disc priest for the world first race in ToS. Disc is on the up-and-up for Argus from every indicator I can see.

Meanwhile, you're sitting here peddling the same exact talking point people have tried using since Legion launch, and while it may have had some legs before 7.2.5, it doesn't now.

Nice try though.

[phyx]

1. Unless you have thousands of those reports, yes it is very subjective.
2. That doesn't hold up on lower difficulties, especially because legendaries don't make or break healers + the face that every has probably every single legendary out there. And it has been a year. Last patch did change a couple of this but the spec is in its essence exactly the same.

Of course I'm equating lower played rates with spec being designed poorly. People don't play it = designed poorly. Unless Blizzard deliberately designed a spec no one wants to play, and it is their actual goal to have a 'hard' spec that's abnormally underplayed. Disc may be on the up-and-up for Argus, but is hard to go anywhere other than up when you are on the very bottom. Good try though.

Keep rationalizing why the spec is heavily underrepresented while the answer is staring you right in the face. I have yet to see any evidence to back up those claims of yours.

[MendUS]

1. Unless you have thousands of those reports, yes it is very subjective.
2. That doesn't hold up on lower difficulties, especially because legendaries don't make or break healers + the face that every has probably every single legendary out there. And it has been a year. Last patch did change a couple of this but the spec is in its essence exactly the same.

Of course I'm equating lower played rates with spec being designed poorly. People don't play it = designed poorly. Unless Blizzard deliberately designed a spec no one wants to play, and it is their actual goal to have a 'hard' spec that's abnormally underplayed. Disc may be on the up-and-up for Argus, but is hard to go anywhere other than up when you are on the very bottom. Good try though.

Keep rationalizing why the spec is heavily underrepresented while the answer is staring you right in the face. I have yet to see any evidence to back up those claims of yours.

We should just agree to disagree. I'm really not going to waste my time explaining something rather simple that's been explained dozens of times (on these forums no less) over the past 12 months.

Good luck with pushing for another revamp.

EDIT: Just looked back and we had this exact same discussion in March (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...out-Disc/page5) which was the last time you were active on the forum. So either you're just super inactive and really concerned about Discipline, or you troll these Disc opinion threads because you get off on it. I'm assuming you just like trolling these threads. Even more reason to not engage with you.

You also seem to struggle coming up with new catch phrases:

March


Now


Anyhow, I'm done replying to you and taking the bait. Good luck trolling someone else.

[phyx]

I wouldn't say it was explained. It was very loosely rationalized. But yes, let's agree to disagree. I am hoping for a new revamp, because even Blizzard won't leave a class that severely underplayed intact. There's obviously something wrong.

[theburned]

I wouldn't say it was explained. It was very loosely rationalized. But yes, let's agree to disagree. I am hoping for a new revamp, because even Blizzard won't leave a class that severely underplayed intact. There's obviously something wrong.

You do realise that there was no time to reroll for this tier? The previous version of disc was really lackluster, which left very few people playing the specc, the specc was completely overhauled with no time to test it before the tier unless you were completely set on playing it. (There were a few LFR and mythic testing) neither being good to test or even less learning the spec. Personally I considered it, but there were never enough time to learn it in time for mythic progress, and well the spec flat out wasnt viable for KJ for my faction, so wouldve killed it on my druid regardless, but for the 15 pulls I used disc for it was providing roughly 100% healing anf 40% dps compared to my druid where I ended up doing 50% dps and 50% hps in p1. Ofc druid became stronger and safer when we hit intermission consistently.
As for next tier I am definitely going for disc because its a fun specc which provides more dps and hps without optimizing for a weaker result in both.