Did Musk just hit a home run with Tesla 3?

[melodramocracy]

No, I'm using my own car for the track days* and also I like to drive(not that much above the limit) outside of the cities, on the mountain roads. Yes, I'm breaking the law by... 10-30 km/h. I'm doing it only when I know I can and no one else is on the road, simple as that. I'm not driving like an asshat. I think that everyone who is doing "stupid stunts" on the roads and risk OTHER people lives deserve jail, financial punishment and also have their license taken.

Nice, what do you have?

I agree with you on the when and where thing. I see so many vehicle owners around here blazing around on the most crowded (and straight) roads. Silly and completely lacking any sort of common sense strategy. Especially when about 10-20 miles away we have rolling twistys through some beautiful and generally deserted areas. I suppose being seen is part of the appeal for these folks.

Planning a trip out to Mid-Ohio for a track day next year.

[jackofwind]

I'll stick with my '74 Charger for now. Once the grid is up and running, and charging times are down to something manageable I'll get a Tesla/other for my city driving.

Driving my parents hybrid Camry is a really weird experience - electric is obviously excellent technology, but it doesn't give the same kind of driving thrill. To me it feels much more utilitarian, whereas the Mopar rumble somehow makes me think of adventure.

[zenkai]

Did you even read what I typed? Re-read it and tell me I can charge it from home. Infact, I'll give you a pic of where I stay, I live in the blue circle area, then tell me I can charge it from home. Go on, explain how the hell I am meant to charge an electric car from my home in a safe way?

get a long extension cord!

[dvaz]

Most of his business ideas are garbage, Tesla was somewhat a good one.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

I'm guessing the bone stock base model $35K doesn't include the "activation" of the self driving feature? Thats some expensive switch to flip.

[Eazy]

I'll give you a couple of points for your reply, no denying. But my main sentiment still stands: What relevance has private track racing? How could this be used as any kind of a metric?

It shows how good the car handle, how fast you beat the lap, how much fun do you have. I like to rivalize with cars that have more power than mine and beat them. Sports cars on the tracks are my hobby, but how many people are using cars for the track days? 1%? Or even less...
Anyway - I think it's impossible to measure the fun.

I think my issue with posts like yours is, that they, to the less knowledgable folks (that often also only glance at stuff) which make up the vast majority, sound like Tesla (and e-cars in general) can't be taken seriously, because how weak do they have to be if they can't even begin to compete with what combustion motors are capable of at the high-end.
That e-cars, if done with any spark of conviction to succeed in the market (which is something I'm missing with many traditional brands until VERY recently), actually promise more oompf for the every-day consumer. Posts like yours convey a picture that is ultimately damaging to something we desparately need, I strongly believe, and that makes me a tad angry (angrier than necessary for a convo, as I demonstrated before).

No way! I'm sorry if you felt insulted or you didn't get my post! (seriously)

I think that Tesla cars are excellent cars for the daily driving. They have nice 0-60 times(you don't really need faster cars), they can carry a lot of baggages, their loading time is short and their range is really long and 100% sufficient(I think that most people drives ~20-50km a day). Did I mention the price? Model 3 is cheap(compared to other cars from the same class). Keep in mind that these cars are totally new compared to the normal cars and they're already pretty good. Maybe in the 5-10 years or more they'll even make daily sports cars(like now they're doing with Formula E, or even NIO EP9 from the China).

Nice, what do you have?

I have a few cars, but only for the track is Megane RS MK III. You could ask why not something "faster" if I have the money - because it's a little beast that requires skill to drive and I just drive it for the sake of driving - it gives me pleasure. With a proper handling you can beat BMW M5(507 hp) on the track... and actually keep on with the Ferrari 458 Italia etc.

Not mine videos but check them out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfMjXG0VDh4&
(it has only changed suspension... to the one you can get if you're buying it personally from the car dealer, it's an option that previous owner didn't get)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyUQaG8_1Kg

I agree with you on the when and where thing. I see so many vehicle owners around here blazing around on the most crowded (and straight) roads. Silly and completely lacking any sort of common sense strategy. Especially when about 10-20 miles away we have rolling twistys through some beautiful and generally deserted areas.

Police should've taken their licenses, seriously. I've seen plenty of crashes where innocent people die because of these idiots.

Planning a trip out to Mid-Ohio for a track day next year.

Try it, you could like it. In my country there are a few tracks where you can borrow a car for a lap, like I mentioned above - 458 Italia, Gallardo LP560, Nissan GTR etc. While I was driving them I had better or almost the same lap times on my Renault.

[Deleted]

How long does it take to recharge?

[lockedout]

Tesla street racing smoking the competition.

[Holofernes]

i am really interested to see the energy consumption and its related co2 emission in production and lifetime support for a "full electric car" compared to modern Otto-Motor.


And i would really like to calculate the energy cost (30 ct / kwh in my country) against the fuel prices, for my home country.

now from the tesla website: the home charger does burn 11 kwh /hour of charging for 54 km, which is the upmost power stream the german power grid in a normal house does supply. In american houses, its way less, because they use 110 Volt grid, wheras germany has a 240V 3 phase system , that yields 380 volt. (this means , american houses need ca triple the time to charge their car because of grid limitation).

thats roughly 20 kwh for 100 km. My car uses 5 litres of gasoline per hundret.

cost: 1.30 *5 = 6,50.

20 *30 = 6.

Basically both have a very similar upkeep cost, expensive as fuck (in money and in production energy requirment) akku systems that probably dont last very long (think of 3-5 years maximum), and are a big nuissance for all people that depend on their car to work if needed.

I am not in the place to calculate total cost of ownership and especially total co2 footprint (i dont have all facts to calculate this, and i dare to say industry keeps them as a secret), but i am pretty sure that tesla would have released such info if they actually beat standard gasoline cars.

Only from this little info, i can clearly state:
Electric cars will never be a working business model in my country. (germany), and it is very questionable if they actually improve the environmental impact / Co2 footprint.

Edit: omg i just realised. Diesel fuel is 25 % cheaper and approx 30 % more energy efficient per liter.. that means Diesel cars are clearly lower upkeep than Tesla. Rofl. Nobody will ever by a tesla 3 for economic or environmental reason, its nothing but a hipster car.

[Toogoodman]

Tesla street racing smoking the competition.

Okay, so a few things.

1) Those are mustangs lol, literal shit cars, heavy, low power, and have terrible handling.
2) The Tesla is an expensive, electric motor driven car, those electric motors have a shit ton of torque
3) Put that against an M4 or a Porche in the same price bracket, itll probably be a little more even
4) This is like those videos where the 1500hp supra "beats" cars on the road or in street races, pretty obvious they're going to win lol.

All that said, ill probably get a Model 3 in the next few years

- - - Updated - - -

i am really interested to see the energy consumption and its related co2 emission in production and lifetime support for a "full electric car" compared to modern Otto-Motor.


And i would really like to calculate the energy cost (30 ct / kwh in my country) against the fuel prices, for my home country.

now from the tesla website: the home charger does burn 11 kwh /hour of charging for 54 km, which is the upmost power stream the german power grid in a normal house does supply. In american houses, its way less, because they use 110 Volt grid, wheras germany has a 240V 3 phase system , that yields 380 volt. (this means , american houses need ca triple the time to charge their car because of grid limitation).

thats roughly 20 kwh for 100 km. My car uses 5 litres of gasoline per hundret.

cost: 1.30 *5 = 6,50.

20 *30 = 6.

Basically both have a very similar upkeep cost, expensive as fuck (in money and in production energy requirment) akku systems that probably dont last very long (think of 3-5 years maximum), and are a big nuissance for all people that depend on their car to work if needed.

I am not in the place to calculate total cost of ownership and especially total co2 footprint (i dont have all facts to calculate this, and i dare to say industry keeps them as a secret), but i am pretty sure that tesla would have released such info if they actually beat standard gasoline cars.

Only from this little info, i can clearly state:
Electric cars will never be a working business model in my country. (germany), and it is very questionable if they actually improve the environmental impact / Co2 footprint.

That is very true, the long term implications of fully electric cars has yet to be fully vetted. I would love for them to be the best alternative, but I do know that batteries from a lot of electric cars have the same negative implications as their gasoline counterparts. It'll be interesting to see how the tech evolves in the near future, but in the mean time, heres a good read https://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas...t-green-think/

[melodramocracy]

Try it, you could like it. In my country there are a few tracks where you can borrow a car for a lap, like I mentioned above - 458 Italia, Gallardo LP560, Nissan GTR etc. While I was driving them I had better or almost the same lap times on my Renault.

Oh, definitely. I've done a few already, and like trying out new tracks. We have some killer ones in the states, but some of the ones I want to go to are far enough away (24+ hour drive) that it becomes an expensive proposition, nevermind tire wear on already short-life span tires. I'll get to Daytona and COTA at some point

There's some places where you can rent cars like that, but certainly not for general track duty. Ferrari rentals in the US average about $1000/day or so, and there are a few events where they let you drive around a track, but it winds up being something like $100 / lap. I'll stick to my own non supercar

Nice Megane btw, looks pretty fun!

[ghotihook]

Edit: omg i just realised. Diesel fuel is 25 % cheaper and approx 30 % more energy efficient per liter.. that means Diesel cars are clearly lower upkeep than Tesla. Rofl. Nobody will ever by a tesla 3 for economic or environmental reason, its nothing but a hipster car.

Diesel fuel in the USA is actually about 15-20% more expensive than regular petrol. I have NFC why this is true, but it is.

[melodramocracy]

Okay, so a few things.

1) Those are mustangs lol, literal shit cars, heavy, low power, and have terrible handling.

Mustangs are lighter than a Tesla by quite a bit, the ones in the video are all far from stock, and handling is a complete non issue in this form of racing. If you want to discuss handling, you'll find that Tesla has a very long way to go, clocking in lap times around VIR slower than a Mini Cooper, and can't get around the 'Ring under full power without overheating.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...d-more-feature

Not absolutely terrible, but handling is simply not this car's strong point at all.

3) Put that against an M4 or a Porche in the same price bracket, itll probably be a little more even

In all fairness, the results would be even more in the Tesla's favor, as most of those particular Mustangs in the video would beat a stock M4 in a 1/4 or 1/8th mile race. Frankly, I'm surprised that so many people even bothered to put money against the Tesla in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYg6e1RBsak

10.44 @124mph. There's only a handful of non electric cars (stock) that can put those sort of times up. Interesting to note that there are many slower cars that trap at a higher speed. Tesla is all about its power delivery at launch.

- - - Updated - - -

Diesel fuel in the USA is actually about 15-20% more expensive than regular petrol. I have NFC why this is true, but it is.

Not to mention that diesel now has quite the black eye in the publics view thanks to coal rollers and the VW debacle. And diesel isn't nearly as widely available, quite a few gas stations around here don't have diesel pumps at all.

e85 is even less common. That truly does seem like it was a fad in the auto industry.

[Afrospinach]

Diesel fuel in the USA is actually about 15-20% more expensive than regular petrol. I have NFC why this is true, but it is.

Most countries have a kind of hybrid tax system on diesel because of it's commercial use. In NZ you pay less at the pump but you have to buy "diesel miles" every so often like a registration. The payoff is you don't pay tax at the pump, it often still works out cheaper/km though ironically the more fuel efficient.... AFAIK america does not have this system.

[Narwal]

Every other weekend I make 2 700 mile drives. This vehicle is about 1/8th of the way to meeting my needs.

[Acidbaron]

We are not there yet but the platform is grown and car manufacters are racing to release the best new thing. Musk intend is to create this competitive market not to be the sole king of it, since the more people in this market the more governments will need to adjust to these cars and currently that is one of the big issues.

[Eazy]

But this is entirely your preception. And that from someone who accused me of generalizing my own views, haha. (In fact, there are quite a few people in the world that are terrified to drive a car that's more powerful than some 90s Opel Corsa 1.0L, and don't enjoy any kilometre of Autobahn.)


You got that wrong. I wasn't insulted or didn't understand, far from it. The problem are those that take words from enthusiasts like you and apply them to their mundane daily driving requirements. Which is a silly thing to do, but people in general ARE silly, and many men also look up to those with big fancy cars and identify with them, although they have no clue what they actually talk about. Such people read your assessments, and naturally think: Nah, e-cars. That's some weaksauce for my wife at best. And I find that dangerous.

Yeah, I think that you have right.

You said so (a lot shorter initially though), but this part is not the one that stays with people. Especially not after you open your text-body with "Tesla S and X were really bad...". THAT is the phrase that sticks, and the damage is done.

Edit incoming!

[Frozenbeef]

35k, that's getting into the affordable range.

My current car costs £3k..so yeah i'll be able to afford one in 10 years...

[Djuntas]

Look, fuck the car - The battery technology is where its at.

The first to invent truly invent a next gen battery is gonna be the new freaking Warren buffet in wealth...Long range, fast charge, cheap to produce etc.

This tesla car is just a gimmick that BMW or w/e can't hire better people for it. Its more the tech race involved Im interested in.

[Unkempt]

Don't believe the hype about coal going away, Japan has pretty much mastered clean coal technology to emit less than natural gas power plants, so it will come back in a huge way, especially in the developing world, which is great for America since we have the largest coal deposits in the world.

Overall though, while the Tesla 3 is a good car and a good step forward, the reality is for most though it's not going to be a mainstream product until rapid charging is invented, where you can charge your car in <5 minutes. Even if 95% of your driving is going to be under the single charge limit, that 5% is going to be a major pain. No one is going to rent a car for those long trips, they're just going to spend $18,000 less to buy a new Elantra initially, and they certainly are not going to wait 3 hours at a charging station, especially if you're on a long trip through no where (you live in St. Paul and are going to Mt. Rushmore or the Badlands in SD). Or even going camping or up in the northwoods for a weeks vacation which many in my neck of the woods enjoy doing.

People make purchases not to be inconvenience, why spend double to make my life slightly more difficult at times? But the person who invents rapid charging for these electric cars, they'll be worth hundreds of billions and they are what will make this technology a reality. Right now we have the cart and the horse, but we're missing the harness to connect them.

[Deleted]

Tesla 3 reminds me to the east german "Trabant", the east german car for the masses in the days of socialism.

People also had to wait years to get one.