Why are people Anti-Vaxers?

[RaoBurning]

Re: Big Pharma being douche bags/lying/lining their pockets with vaccines

Moot point, as the rest of the world doesn't operate on a for-profit medical system, and they use vaccines, too. An experiment I like to propose to my sister's anti-vax friend: I'll get the Anthrax vaccine, you don't, then we'll both do a line and see who comes out better.

Obviously hyperbolic, but she's not that smart so I have to use bright colors and exaggerated examples.

[Dastreus]

After years of media and people of authority lying to people (IE: Big Pharma), when someone tells them "this procedure that costs you money is bad anyway" people will stop it, because most people are also living paycheck to paycheck. So not only are they saving money (short-term), but they think that because they've been lied to many times before by thuh gub'ment, then they think "vaccines are fine" is another lie, and more willing to accept it because "hey I get to save some money".

Add all this, to the fact that people just don't know how to find actual facts, anymore. There are flat earthers, creationists, people who think Planned Parenthood was selling baby parts, etc, when all it takes is some reading of facts to learn all this is bogus.

[Deleted]

Same reason as those who are against GMOs, deny climate issues, or believe in gods. They prefer fairy tales over hard hitting facts.

[Toxsins]

That's not really an argument so much as established history. Exactly that happened in the early 80s. There was a massive thing about the DPT vaccine supposedly causing brain damage (which was later totally discredited) and lots of lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers, which the manufacturers lost. Due to that, basically all of them stopped making that vaccine and supplies dried up.

I am quite well aware of that, however it is still just an argument that the only solution is to shift responsibility to the federal government. Alternatively, the courts could have made a better judgement in the first place by doing a better job evaluating the evidence and being staffed with specialists who can better understand the evidence in such cases. The realm of biology is more murky and clouded that most, which is precisely why extra care should be taken when discussing the subject. Ultimately, it is a cheap and easy solution to simply push responsibility off onto taxpayers to deal with rather than deal with it properly in the first place. That solution also runs the risk of introducing moral hazard into the industry such that the industry (like the banks...) doesn't have to take responsibility for its failures and can behave recklessly as a consequence.

In fairness, I do believe that most people in involved in the vaccine industry have good intentions, but there is additional motivation to ensure product quality that is missing from this industry that is present in almost all others (and where this motivation is missing, problems inevitably ensue).

[Deleted]

Well in India and pretty sure in China too most of the children are not vaccinated, do you see these countries drop in population?

No, but if you look at death rates, preventable disease occurrences and prominence. You could associate lack of vaccination to those figures. Also, population growth isn't solely correlated to vaccintion use either, pletheroa of factors such as healthcare, living conditions, GDP, politics, culural and religious tradition, etc etc etc.

[Toxsins]

Same reason as those who are against GMOs, deny climate issues, or believe in gods. They prefer fairy tales over hard hitting facts.

You know, you're so right, because someone like me who raises valid objections to something doesn't bother to do any research at all. Clearly. I mean obviously.

So what are a couple of methods you would use to produce an attenuated live virus vaccine versus a selective antigen vaccine? Without going to Wikipedia or Google...

[Torgent]

Well in India and pretty sure in China too most of the children are not vaccinated, do you see these countries drop in population?

They also have very high death rates for diseases that are basically unheard of in countries with mandatory vaccinations. It's almost like the very thing you're pointing out proves that vaccines are very helpful at preventing death. Thanks. Always trust the anti-vaxxers to eventually stumble and state something that's true.

[Toxsins]

They also have very high death rates for diseases that are basically unheard of in countries with mandatory vaccinations. It's almost like the very thing you're pointing out proves that vaccines are very helpful at preventing death. Thanks. Always trust the anti-vaxxers to eventually stumble and state something that's true.

It's easy to attack straw men. Do you have an actual argument for why individual responsibility should be shifted from one person to another, for example if someone cannot get vaccines why is it the responsibility of anyone else to solve that problem for them? Furthermore, how do you avoid applying that same argument to every other issue in the world, like income inequality? Why should it be the responsibility of other people to 'make life fair' or possible for others?

[Torgent]

It's easy to attack straw men. Do you have an actual argument for why individual responsibility should be shifted from one person to another, for example if someone cannot get vaccines why is it the responsibility of anyone else to solve that problem for them? Furthermore, how do you avoid applying that same argument to every other issue in the world, like income inequality? Why should it be the responsibility of other people to 'make life fair' or possible for others?

Because that's how civilization works. Just like I pay for roads that I'll never drive on. Because we are a collective that has basic responsibilities to each other. Income equality is not related to this at all and shows that you don't know about either topic.

Also I didn't attack a strawman. His argument was literally "They don't vaccinate, and their population is high". It shows a gross misunderstanding of everything relating to vaccination.

[Tic Tacs]

They also have very high death rates for diseases that are basically unheard of in countries with mandatory vaccinations. It's almost like the very thing you're pointing out proves that vaccines are very helpful at preventing death. Thanks. Always trust the anti-vaxxers to eventually stumble and state something that's true.

I would rather die than to be crippled and autistic for the rest of my life.

[Masark]

I would rather die than to be crippled and autistic for the rest of my life.

Good thing it's not a choice between those two options.

[Nerdgasm]

I would rather die than to be crippled and autistic for the rest of my life.

Sure, then be sure to take your vaccines.

I would also want to die, but thanks to my parents I was vaccinated against polio and Hib.

[Torgent]

I would rather die than to be crippled and autistic for the rest of my life.

Well it's a good thing that vaccines don't cause that. You know what does cause you to be crippled? Polio. Wanna know why you and people you know didn't get it? Vaccines.

[Vynny]

My cousin didn't get her kids vaccinated because she was worried about side effects. To be honest, it basically comes down to selfish asshats who want to benefit from herd immunity while avoiding any slim perceived risk to themselves or their own. This is a little off topic, but we should just make it so that kids who aren't vaccinated are put in their own classes/schools. That'll make parents vaccinate their kids real quickly when they stop completely benefiting from herd immunity.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I assume this is an american thing as I had never heard the term before so had to look it up... How the fuck are vaccinations going to give you autism? Is this like a conspiracy theory?

It is basically, here is a decent article going over the events that originated this conspiracy theory.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/debu...ience-medicine


The links within the article that go into further detail.
http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/
http://www.nationalacademies.org/hmd...nd-Autism.aspx
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134

And this is the report which cost Andrew Wakefield his medical license.
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...096-0/fulltext

Jenny McCarthy is one of the people who has continues to perpetuate the myth, I've no clue why people trust her word.

[Lollis]

To be honest, it basically comes down to selfish asshats who want to benefit from herd immunity while avoiding any slim perceived risk to themselves or their own.

The vast majority of people who voluntarilty don't vaccinate don't know or care about herd immunity. Herd immunity is to protect those who cannot be vaccinated because of medical issues such as weakened immune systems.

[Mercane]

At the end of the day, I think it should be up to each individual or their parents if they are minor to decide whether to vaccinate. I personally believe that for me, the risk is worth it, as I have never had a seriously negative reaction to any previous vaccine or their ingredients.

The problem with 'your take', as it were, is that you're putting people that don't have a choice to immunize or protect themselves because they suffer from some variant of immuno-suppresion. While I think, yes you should have the right to do as you please with your own body, that right shouldn't at any point infringe on the continued life of another person. All medicine has a side-effect, if the side-effects outweigh the potential good the medicine can provide, then don't take the medicine- realize however, that some people aren't as free to make that decision as others, and they deserve to be protected as well.

[Alexeht]

It gave you a bit of satisfaction being completely wrong and showing you have 0 clue what you're talking about? GG

Nah, you have me a bit of satisfaction for being "physically angry". For me to be physically angry someone is have to physically attacking me.

[ItachiZaku]

In theory, I'm an anti-vaxxer, but in practice you need to be.

[Rotted]

Nah, you have me a bit of satisfaction for being "physically angry". For me to be physically angry someone is have to physically attacking me.

Given the opportunity....