[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[dope_danny]

last i checked bard actually has the most parses in savage omega atm

My server seems to 99% of the time go completely against the meta. Maybe its stubbornness. I can understand that, i stuck to my Death Knight back in WoW even at its lowest just because.

God knows i'm not actually maining RDM because of the dps. I just enjoy it.

[Faroth]

My server seems to 99% of the time go completely against the meta. Maybe its stubbornness. I can understand that, i stuck to my Death Knight back in WoW even at its lowest just because.

Legion finally broke my Survival 4 Life hunter in WoW. Had to go Marksman (though to be fair, Legion's Marksman is basically Wrath through WoD Survival anyway).

[Kazgrel]

Agreed. I don't think people are understanding you. You're not arguing how it works. You merely asking how did they arrive at the conclusion that this was good gameplay? It's not honestly I agree. It should definitely be changed to affect all outgoing healing.

I get where Gran is coming from. It's a very weird "distinction" that's being made, namely for casters, since pretty much everything we do is some sort of spell, logically speaking. Assize, Asylum, Tetra...all of those utilize/fall under white magic, yet all are classified as "abilities". My guess is their reasoning for that is so they can balance certain skills around not having certain buffs and such (as the case is with how Largesse doesn't affect the abilities I previously named).

I had the same realization/epiphany as Gran did, only it was maybe a year ago-ish when I was leveling WHM up through HW content. I found it odd, yes, but once I realized I needed to check skill descriptors/tooltips to know what affected what, that helped to alleviate the confusion a little. Honestly, I don't see why they can't affect those abilities. I can't think of how it would be game-breaking.

Another tooltip that comes to mind: MNK's Brotherhood. Specifies that only weaponskills have a chance to grant the stacks. That makes me wonder, though...as a caster, would spells count? Otherwise, that ability is pretty much shit in a caster heavy group.

[Kaelwryn]

I get where Gran is coming from. It's a very weird "distinction" that's being made, namely for casters, since pretty much everything we do is some sort of spell, logically speaking. Assize, Asylum, Tetra...all of those utilize/fall under white magic, yet all are classified as "abilities". My guess is their reasoning for that is so they can balance certain skills around not having certain buffs and such (as the case is with how Largesse doesn't affect the abilities I previously named).

I had the same realization/epiphany as Gran did, only it was maybe a year ago-ish when I was leveling WHM up through HW content. I found it odd, yes, but once I realized I needed to check skill descriptors/tooltips to know what affected what, that helped to alleviate the confusion a little. Honestly, I don't see why they can't affect those abilities. I can't think of how it would be game-breaking.

Another tooltip that comes to mind: MNK's Brotherhood. Specifies that only weaponskills have a chance to grant the stacks. That makes me wonder, though...as a caster, would spells count? Otherwise, that ability is pretty much shit in a caster heavy group.

Caster's aren't affected by Brotherhood, so yeah its pretty bad in a heavy caster group.

[Granyala]

Agreed. I don't think people are understanding you. You're not arguing how it works. You merely asking how did they arrive at the conclusion that this was good gameplay? It's not honestly I agree. It should definitely be changed to affect all outgoing healing.

I don't agree. As a role action it should not become so powerful that it is mandatory to take.

The skill itself is fine as it is, merely the TT needs to be changed.
Personally, I feel like an idiot for using it wrong for 3 years which is the main reason why I am so pissed about the issue. ^^

[Kazgrel]

Another confusing as fuck tooltip, brought to you by MNK: Riddle of Earth.

The way it is worded, it appears that by activating the ability, it refreshes the duration of Greased Lightning stacks to it's maximum. Tried it a couple of times...no go. "Dafuq, is it bugged?". Flexed some Google-fu and found out that it's not the activation of it that refreshes it, but rather it's the shield/buff you get from using the ability. That buff has to be triggered (which happens upon taking damage) in order for the refresh to take effect. So it's basically a glorified mini-Rampart for MNKs...who shouldn't be taking any damage aside from unavoidable pulse/aoe attacks, which hit everyone.

[Katchii]

Not sure where this comment came from. I never mentioned or advocated this type of gameplay as best I can tell. What I advocated was combat content scaling. The concept that a lowly wolf is still a threat to even a seasoned adventurer if they're not careful.



Nono, character progression is very important to me, arguably the most important. In my dream MMO example I gave you're much stronger at 60 than you are at 1, but that level 1 wolf can still kill you. You'd have more gear effects, stats, and skills to supplement your encounter which would lower the difficulty, but not remove it outright (which is an issue I currently have with themeparks). It ties into the concept that I wish was more widespread. It's that not only do we grow as characters, but so does the world and its inhabitants within. It's your job to grow yourself to supplement that. If you put all your effort into offensive skills, stats, and effects, that same inept bandit may not be as inept as you once remember. Your overwhelming strength is valuable, but not if you can't resist his poison, or identify his stealth or weaknesses, etc.

IMO an MMO built on this type of design would be better than a themepark yes. To me and me alone. I find value in that level of immersion, customization, and engagement. Not everyone will, but I certainly would.



In my game the stats offered core bonuses that were measured against the average level. You have 5 core stats: STR, WIS, DEX, INT, VIT. Warning ahead of time, kinda long sorry.

STR - would boost physical damage, all gear would have STR requirements. Obviously stronger gear requires more STR to wear. It also adds hit stun to your attacks. You need hitstun to chain attacks forming combos preventing an enemy from retaliating. STR also boosts your Boost gauge max and regeneration (which is a meter that depletes on actions taken).

WIS - would boost magical damage. Some gear has WIS requirements. All skills have a WIS requirement and more advanced effects require more WIS. WIS boosts hit stun of magically oriented attacks.

DEX - increases movespeed and shortens recovery frames. Gear also sometimes has DEX requirements, as do most movement based utility skills. DEX directly influences your Boost gauge max and regeneration.

INT - would increase resource (let's call it MP) maximum and regeneration rates. Most skills of a magical nature will also have an INT requirement. it also boosts your resistances to negative effects (debuffs) such as poison, silence, transform, etc. as well as reducing magical damage taken.

VIT - would increase resources (HP obvi) maximum and regeneration rates. Some gear/skills require VIT. It also reduces physical damage taken and reduces CC durations.

So now that we know what the stats kind of do in my game, we can identify a scenario:

Every level up (which remember levels aren't super important because of scaling, and don't assume the concept of being level 167 is a big deal, it's merely a non-important number stating you've played a good bit). You get 7 stat points per level up to allocate as you see fit across the 5 stats. That means that you can effectively boost 2 attributes "above" the average. However, you're free to spend them in anyway you want, and can supplement your shortcomings via gear/skills.

Let's say you're level 60 and you dumped all 7 points into STR every level, the game would compare your "average" strength i.e. if you put 1 point in each level, and measure the difference above that and translate to additional damage/hit stun. In the example above, you'd have a healthy amount of bonus damage/hitstun when fighting. However, the game also assumes that you didn't ignore other attributes when spending points. What this means is that you're also more susceptible to magic effects, have lower hp/defense, and less speed. Then it would compare the stats of your enemy and average them. That would mean that some enemies might be able to chain hits into you that could be very dangerous or lethal because you spent too much effort prioritizing offense. Now the flip side is also true. If you land a hit on a low defense enemy that would already take higher than average damage, then couple that with your bonus attributes you could cause significant harm to an enemy that struggled to even fight back. It's a gameplay model that allows tons of different approaches and solutions to any problem you may be having.



That's an ok scenario. The point is the random dice roll negative modifier forced you to adapt based on circumstances. The point is that it's not a permanent affix omg my life is ruined. It's a singular random affix, that is intended to be in a part of multiple affixes making the content somewhat different every time you approach it via this method. It's also an affix that if you don't want to deal with (in a specific fight or at all) you can try and reroll it out.

You're welcome to offer your own examples to bolster the pool though!

I'd be on board with a game like this as long as there was plenty of content to do that helped feed you the experience needed to level up. I can't stand grinding and doing mundane tasks ad nauseum to supplement your stats.

If the game had in-game tasks, games, jobs, etc... that could be used to "train" your stat that would be pretty awesome...to a point. Like being a Blacksmith would give you Strength bonuses, hunting with a bow or gun would increase your Dexterity, solving village/city problems that require thinking (investigation type stuff) would increase Wisdom. Intelligence and Vitality would increase through actually playing and being exposed to the things that either positively or negatively affect you...school of hard knocks in a sense.

I could go on but I think the main focus for me would be earning a class which then leads to earning skills, higher level gear and therefore additional avenues for improving in that combat school. Like everyone starts out as a farmboy/ nobody type person and then grows into a style of combat/ play that fits them and after getting enough stats, gear, and prestige you could join the guild/ class hall/ whatever you want to call it for that school of combat. After earning enough you could eventually branch out, just like in Elder Scrolls type games and learn skills from different schools and join more than one and maybe eventually all of the different guilds. Making the journey the focus of the game and not just a stepping stone to the "end game."

[Granyala]

Another confusing as fuck tooltip, brought to you by MNK: Riddle of Earth.

The way it is worded, it appears that by activating the ability, it refreshes the duration of Greased Lightning stacks to it's maximum. Tried it a couple of times...no go. "Dafuq, is it bugged?". Flexed some Google-fu and found out that it's not the activation of it that refreshes it, but rather it's the shield/buff you get from using the ability. That buff has to be triggered (which happens upon taking damage) in order for the refresh to take effect. So it's basically a glorified mini-Rampart for MNKs...who shouldn't be taking any damage aside from unavoidable pulse/aoe attacks, which hit everyone.

Them Nips and their awkward designs.

[Skizzit]

I get where Gran is coming from. It's a very weird "distinction" that's being made, namely for casters, since pretty much everything we do is some sort of spell, logically speaking. Assize, Asylum, Tetra...all of those utilize/fall under white magic, yet all are classified as "abilities". My guess is their reasoning for that is so they can balance certain skills around not having certain buffs and such (as the case is with how Largesse doesn't affect the abilities I previously named).

I had the same realization/epiphany as Gran did, only it was maybe a year ago-ish when I was leveling WHM up through HW content. I found it odd, yes, but once I realized I needed to check skill descriptors/tooltips to know what affected what, that helped to alleviate the confusion a little. Honestly, I don't see why they can't affect those abilities. I can't think of how it would be game-breaking.

Another tooltip that comes to mind: MNK's Brotherhood. Specifies that only weaponskills have a chance to grant the stacks. That makes me wonder, though...as a caster, would spells count? Otherwise, that ability is pretty much shit in a caster heavy group.

I wonder if the idea to have some as spells and some as abilities might be so status effects like silence and amnesia do not completely lock you out of any action at all.

[Nasriel]

Of all of the ARR EX Primal fights which one would you guys say was the hardest? Managed to get the Shiva mount but she's still being stingy with the SAM/RDM weapons and we were trying Titan last night which we're able to kill but sometimes it was a bit of a struggle due to some of his mechanics causing an insta wipe which we died to a few times (eg I think we were getting too close so we were both getting trapped in a stone prison type thing and then he'd jump in the air and the fight would reset which we had happen a few times :/) Overall it dosn't seem hard once we get used to the fight but are things going to go downhill from here and get harder or are the rest of the primals on par with Titan and Shiva? (Garuda was easy as pie lol)

[Kaelwryn]

Levi/Ramuh/Ifrit are the hardest of the ARR primals just due to the fact you need to watch your dps on them. They all have hard enrages at hp % that can instantly wipe you.

[Remilia]

Another confusing as fuck tooltip, brought to you by MNK: Riddle of Earth.

The way it is worded, it appears that by activating the ability, it refreshes the duration of Greased Lightning stacks to it's maximum. Tried it a couple of times...no go. "Dafuq, is it bugged?". Flexed some Google-fu and found out that it's not the activation of it that refreshes it, but rather it's the shield/buff you get from using the ability. That buff has to be triggered (which happens upon taking damage) in order for the refresh to take effect. So it's basically a glorified mini-Rampart for MNKs...who shouldn't be taking any damage aside from unavoidable pulse/aoe attacks, which hit everyone.

Japanese has it written out as (rough translation)
When taken damage during the effect, grant self "Kongou no Ketsui", furthermore Shippuujinrai's duration increased to max.

[MisterSheep]

Maybe i'm wrong, but i feel like FFxiv is just another WoW clone, a decent one, but still a copy. It just feels like a good alternative to WoW. But personnaly i'm sick of WoW and grew sick of xiv really fast.

Still a good MMO for those who enjoy the Final Fantasy/anime universe, but this game bring absolutely nothing innovative to the MMO genre. It's at best just another time sink.

[lawow74]

Maybe i'm wrong, but i feel like FFxiv is just another WoW clone, a decent one, but still a copy. It just feels like a good alternative to WoW. But personnaly i'm sick of WoW and grew sick of xiv really fast.

Still a good MMO for those who enjoy the Final Fantasy/anime universe, but this game bring absolutely nothing innovative to the MMO genre. It's at best just another time sink.

It's close to WoW in a lot of mechanical ways, but it has some good iterations that draw a certain crowd.

1)Focus on story with you at the center.
2)Everything doable on a single character.
3)Crafting and gathering are classes, not just side-activities.

It's not really innovative, no, but few games are, most are iterative of an older concept. Blizzard themselves are not very innovative. But they are fantastic iterators.

[Granyala]

Maybe i'm wrong, but i feel like FFxiv is just another WoW clone, a decent one, but still a copy.

Yup, but with a few good alterations:
-No laser focus on raiding (good for me b/c I no longer raid)
-No DiablololRNG ontop of RNG iced with RNG (except for endgame crafting )
-Miqo'te *meow*

[Skizzit]

Maybe i'm wrong, but i feel like FFxiv is just another WoW clone, a decent one, but still a copy. It just feels like a good alternative to WoW. But personnaly i'm sick of WoW and grew sick of xiv really fast.

It's a WoW clone in the same way every FPS game is a Doom or Half-life clone. It's a genre so of course there are going to be many similarities. They took the basic idea of this style of game and tweaked some things here, borrowed some ideas from a few other places, and gave it a nice sheen of polish. Interestingly enough, that's pretty much been Blizzard's modus operandi since day one. Every one of their big games has been just taking an established genre and giving it the Blizzard high level of care and quality. Including WoW. I still recall people calling it an Everquest clone back around it's announcement and launch.

I think FFXIV has done a great job at making a modern MMO that still has traces of the older hardcore style of MMO. Pretty impressive considering what a disaster the original launch was. It also has easily the best community I have come across in an MMO in a long, long time. You could say that SE doesn't have anything to do with that, but they have put a number of small things in the game to greatly encourage players to act that way. The single biggest, especially coming from someone who just started playing not that long ago, is to make the game newbie friendly. By doing things like giving bonus rewards for finishing dungeons with players who have never done said dungeon before it actually makes people happy to see new players. I have not once been kicked from a dungeon because I was new and have actually been thanked for being joining. Tell me, when have you ever seen something like that in another MMO? Little things like that spread throughout the game and all make for an overall friendlier community.

[Deleted]

It's a WoW clone in the same way every FPS game is a Doom or Half-life clone. It's a genre so of course there are going to be many similarities. They took the basic idea of this style of game and tweaked some things here, borrowed some ideas from a few other places, and gave it a nice sheen of polish. Interestingly enough, that's pretty much been Blizzard's modus operandi since day one. Every one of their big games has been just taking an established genre and giving it the Blizzard high level of care and quality. Including WoW. I still recall people calling it an Everquest clone back around it's announcement and launch.

I think FFXIV has done a great job at making a modern MMO that still has traces of the older hardcore style of MMO. Pretty impressive considering what a disaster the original launch was. It also has easily the best community I have come across in an MMO in a long, long time. You could say that SE doesn't have anything to do with that, but they have put a number of small things in the game to greatly encourage players to act that way. The single biggest, especially coming from someone who just started playing not that long ago, is to make the game newbie friendly. By doing things like giving bonus rewards for finishing dungeons with players who have never done said dungeon before it actually makes people happy to see new players. I have not once been kicked from a dungeon because I was new and have actually been thanked for being joining. Tell me, when have you ever seen something like that in another MMO? Little things like that spread throughout the game and all make for an overall friendlier community.

Yea end of the day it all boils down to the same shit. Level, get gear, kill bosses. But for me FFXIV has something, it has its own feel.

[Faroth]

Maybe i'm wrong, but i feel like FFxiv is just another WoW clone, a decent one, but still a copy. It just feels like a good alternative to WoW. But personnaly i'm sick of WoW and grew sick of xiv really fast.

Still a good MMO for those who enjoy the Final Fantasy/anime universe, but this game bring absolutely nothing innovative to the MMO genre. It's at best just another time sink.

EverQuest Next died, and with it died the hope for true innovation in MMOs for a while longer.

The most ambitious MMO that was adding a lot of innovative new things prior, imo, was Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. They reached too far too fast and flopped.

Innovative MMOs don't seem to make it out the gate, not always entirely their fault, but they've been getting battered when they've tried. Shame, really. But as the Amalur MMO proved, investors have reason to be wary of pumping millions into a new IP that's going to try and break the mold. High risk of failure means high risk of lost investment.

[Wrecktangle]

I don't agree. As a role action it should not become so powerful that it is mandatory to take.

The skill itself is fine as it is, merely the TT needs to be changed.
Personally, I feel like an idiot for using it wrong for 3 years which is the main reason why I am so pissed about the issue. ^^

Fair enough, my mistake then. I could argue that there are other role actions that are considerably more "powerful" and "mandatory" so I assume you have issues with them as well. I also don't think having it affect all healing is as powerful as you're implying. I mean heck, you already thought it WAS doing that and it was fine . I'm just looking at it from a meeting standpoint. You have some people sitting in a meeting saying how about this ability? Yeah boosts healing, that's cool. Then somebody in the back says, only make it so it affects strictly cast timed spells. We don't want it affecting more than that. Someone else says why? I just can't see a group of professionals ironing out aspects like that and not looking a little silly (granted I've seen rooms full of idiots who make a lot more than me say some dumb shit so its possible I'm wrong here).

I'd be on board with a game like this as long as there was plenty of content to do that helped feed you the experience needed to level up. I can't stand grinding and doing mundane tasks ad nauseum to supplement your stats.

If the game had in-game tasks, games, jobs, etc... that could be used to "train" your stat that would be pretty awesome...to a point. Like being a Blacksmith would give you Strength bonuses, hunting with a bow or gun would increase your Dexterity, solving village/city problems that require thinking (investigation type stuff) would increase Wisdom. Intelligence and Vitality would increase through actually playing and being exposed to the things that either positively or negatively affect you...school of hard knocks in a sense.

So the idea is that you're an Alchemist who's volunteered to help build and explore this newfound world. Your civilization has done a minor job exploring the immediate vicinity and establishing towns, cities, and camps, but the furthest reaches are still unexplored. The world is full of varying locales and environments, and the inhabitants have a surprisingly robust knowledge of their own version of alchemy.

Your goal as a player would be to just explore the different zones, build your character and workshop, make friends, and uncover the mystery of the new world/civilization. There's also a MSQ element tied to an NPC who has a fundamentally different view of Alchemy and plans to exact his agenda on this new world before settling back into your old one.

So the game cycle works like this:

You explore zones, acquire materials, fight enemies, explore cities/towns/NPC's stories that could teach you new recipes. You then go back to your workshop and craft. Crafting generates XP just like combat. Alchemy allows you to shift gear effects and stats around, boost gears efficacy, craft tools and items with various effects and potencies. So there's no "training" your specific stats, but there's training your character in total, which then you translate into whatever build/design you're pursuing.

Every system ties into each other rewarding you for whatever you decide to do to spend your time. Zones wouldn't be easy to just run through and skip, you'd actually need to adventure through them to get to new ones. You'd create new skills/builds to surpass enemies who gave you a hard time or a zone that was too volatile or dangerous to explore. You'd get new/better gear, or continue upgrading existing gear to be better, and find rarer, more potent ingredients to craft more powerful and versatile tools. You're always limited on how much you can carry (item/tool wise, and ingredient wise, separately though).

The overall premise of things I'd want are: character progression that feels like leveling, but doesn't abruptly stop and then suddenly change. Horizontal gear progression. Gear is useful and powerful, but it's not always a simple replace and throw away adventure. You can empower existing gear with new gear that drops via alchemy, or outright craft better gear via the same method. It's a fun shuffle to basically create your own perfect character.

I have not once been kicked from a dungeon because I was new and have actually been thanked for being joining. Tell me, when have you ever seen something like that in another MMO? Little things like that spread throughout the game and all make for an overall friendlier community.

To be fair, in some pugs I've ever joined in WoW I was thanked for being there, either for saving a run, or carrying one. I've had similar success in BNS, albeit much less often. People have asked how I did so much dps and asked if I macro'd and asked for help understanding and setting one up. I've had people ask me in PVP how I knew what they were going to do. As an avid fighting game fan, if I lose and I dont understand why I always ask. Nothing annoys me more than someone saying get good, so I always extend the courtesy of explaining why I did what I did and how I guessed what they would do etc. I've been thanked for that and that's a pretty toxic game lol.

[StrawberryZebra]

I've had people ask me in PVP how I knew what they were going to do. As an avid fighting game fan, if I lose and I dont understand why I always ask. Nothing annoys me more than someone saying get good, so I always extend the courtesy of explaining why I did what I did and how I guessed what they would do etc. I've been thanked for that and that's a pretty toxic game lol.

This, largely, mirrors my own experience. PvP games in general seem to have a reputation for toxic fanbases made up of players who's only adjective begins with an F. The truth is I have far more people on ignore in FF14 than I do in DOTA. That may seem hard to believe, but there seems to be the expectation that MMO groups should all conform to the exact whims of some players and deviating from that even slightly is enough to have them frothing at the mouth. I've had someone point out that the shouldn't need to "tell me off" for using my personal DPS cooldowns while playing solo and should save them for boss fights exclusively, the odd one or two tanks get really upset that I was DPSing as a SCH and even one guy who went absolutely baslitic that the RDM in our group had no Materia in his gear and didn't know the Ala Mhigo dungeon - Despite the fact he'd clearly been level 70 for under an hour.

Fact of the matter is I run into more PvPers who are more helpful and aproachable than their PvE counterparts. I dropped by an SF discord for new players the other week where 15(!) people offered to help out a new guy with getting the basics of Birdie down. He was innundated with everything from text guides to offers to personally coach him. Earlier today I was making friends playing LoL despite the fact we were getting totally wrecked.

The idea that PvP communities are automatically worse behaved has never matched up with my experience of them. It tends to be used more as an excuse for why people don't want to play PvP rather than having much basis in reality.

-Miqo'te *meow*

Just what is it with Japan and cat people anyway? They seem to be massively over-represented in Japanese made games. They're not quite as ubiquitous as physics defying hairstyles and wearing more belts than the leather section in Ann Summers, but they're getting close.