Poll: Is a stat squish needed?

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  1. #181
    Yes and iirc theyvsaid after legion they would be doing another stat squish. I don't understand their number tuning....they did it for wod cause we were doing too much damage numerically at the end of mop....by he end of wod the squish was pointless....if they do in fact do a squish for next expansion I hope it lasts more than a few months. I personally hate that we're at a million dps....I liked the lower numbers in wotlk.

  2. #182
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    I think so yeah. Numbers are getting pretty nutty now. Not sure how you'd do it but that's why Blizz has the money to hire smarty pants for that

  3. #183
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVaryag View Post
    I mean, what's the average HP level of you and the mobs you're attacking? Lets use Broken Shore for this example, and this Is post-patch where they fixed that Implementation of mobs scaling to ilevel, and by fix I mean removed and will hopefully never do that again unless they want to see WoW burn.
    You struggle with the truth, dont you? It wasnt' 'removed', you know this, I know this.

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  4. #184
    The Lightbringer Huntaer's Avatar
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    They needed the squish for 32bit reasons right? Not really needed now. Instead of 1,000,000,000 damage it could just show 1B damage or 1000M damage.
    Or maybe just work with % instead of health points.
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  5. #185
    The 32-bit damage calculation limit has been surpassed. There is no technical need for a squish.

    There is no difference visually between 100K and 100M. There is no gameplay need for a squish.

  6. #186
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifeanychukwu View Post
    Yep, not just a squish down to Cataclysm levels either. IIRC the first time they did the squish we were quickly climbing back to nearly the same levels of craziness. The squish should bring us back to about the same level as Wrath and have less extreme increases of ilvl throughout the expansion so we're not back to the same place in the span of two expansions.
    Massive power inflation at max level is now the norm. Four difficulties of raiding means that we have 4 tiers of power during one instance. We experience whole power scale of TBC and even Wrath now during one raid, with next raid bringing yet another massive leap.

    With how shortlived the benefits from the last squish were, I don't really see a reason to do it again. The technical hurdles they had with unit HP before (using only 32 bit integer) have been solved, so there's no technical reason to do it.

  7. #187
    Please stop playing RPG's if you don't like your character getting stronger over time.

  8. #188
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelathos View Post
    At 25x growth per expansion, the current rate of climb looks like this:

    6.X: 100 thousand dps
    7.X: 2.5 million dps
    8.X: 62 million dps
    9.X: 1.5 BILLION dps

    It's going to be a problem.
    How so? Mob HP will just grow in the same scale.

  9. #189
    no as it just breaks the RPG aspects and feels like a huge nerf to the toons, not to mention resources and re-balancing old content for soloing reasons beyond that now you do 10,000% dmg in MC to make up for nerfing you.
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  10. #190
    Mechagnome Mitak's Avatar
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    Remove numbers! No damage numbers, no healing numbers. Problem solved!
    Possible outcome:

    -60% of the DPS quit because they don't understand the game anymore
    -Healers couldn't care less, they live in the world of bars going left and right
    -Tanks continue to yell for more DPS, this time no one can tell them they are wrong

    The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside your head.

  11. #191
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    Stat squish is irrelevant.

    Item level inflation that needs rework. Gear progresses too fast.

    Titanforged system is made to encourage players to run older content and to allow players get gear. Remove it, reduce ilevel difference instead, big time, so previous tiers would still be usable. That would reduce power gain and encourage players to do previous content.

    Example:

    Expansion base item level: 1000
    Normal dungeons: 1000
    Heroic dungeons: 1005
    Mythic dungeons: 1010
    Tier 1 LFR: 1005
    Tier 1 normal: 1010
    Tier 1 heroic: 1015
    Tier 1 mythic: 1020
    Tier 2 (LFR - mythic): 1015 - 1030
    Tier 3 (LFR - mythic): 1025 - 1040

    With such small difference in numbers stats difference would be minor too. Gear with right stats would easily outperform non-optimal gear 10 ilevels higher, which would encourage players to get optimal gear. Progression would be limited by skill, not gear. Overgearing content would be very uncommon.

  12. #192
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binki View Post
    Stat squish is irrelevant.

    Item level inflation that needs rework. Gear progresses too fast.

    Titanforged system is made to encourage players to run older content and to allow players get gear. Remove it, reduce ilevel difference instead, big time, so previous tiers would still be usable. That would reduce power gain and encourage players to do previous content.

    Example:

    Expansion base item level: 1000
    Normal dungeons: 1000
    Heroic dungeons: 1005
    Mythic dungeons: 1010
    Tier 1 LFR: 1005
    Tier 1 normal: 1010
    Tier 1 heroic: 1015
    Tier 1 mythic: 1020
    Tier 2 (LFR - mythic): 1015 - 1030
    Tier 3 (LFR - mythic): 1025 - 1040

    With such small difference in numbers stats difference would be minor too. Gear with right stats would easily outperform non-optimal gear 10 ilevels higher, which would encourage players to get optimal gear. Progression would be limited by skill, not gear. Overgearing content would be very uncommon.
    There would be like 5% difference between fresh 120 character and Full Mythic T24 raider.

    No.

  13. #193
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    The stat squish removed a ton of what made the game fun for me, before though now that's already ruined, might aswell. Don't think it can have many consequrences after the first.

  14. #194
    Its going to happen. Weather its really needed or not can only really be answered by folks at Blizzard and I have my doubts we will ever know the whole truth there. Likely the price of having 4 different stages of difficulty that have to increase by a certain % each tier and also be a certain % greater than each other as difficulty increases combined with having to make that stair step 3-4 different times in the course of an expansion. Then those steps having to increase again per expansion by a higher % and then repeat the pervious step. Every two or three times at that level of steady % increase will need up with Blizzard desiring a squish.

    Not that it really matters either way. As long as the game maintains the right ratios what the end of the day digits are to create the data don't matter a whole lot.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    There would be like 5% difference between fresh 120 character and Full Mythic T24 raider.

    No.
    Yep, that's the point. Though numbers could be tweaked to lets say 50% performance difference.

    Current inflation is way too high. Difference should be in skill, not in time spent grinding RNG with extra layers of RNG on top of that.

  16. #196
    I don't remember why and when they switched to a 15 level difference between tiers, instead of 13.
    But it was also a contributing factor to the whole mess. In a time when they introduced so many difficulty-/item level-plateaus per tier this exaggerated the whole process even more. Dumb decision.

  17. #197
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binki View Post
    Yep, that's the point. Though numbers could be tweaked to lets say 50% performance difference.

    Current inflation is way too high. Difference should be in skill, not in time spent grinding RNG with extra layers of RNG on top of that.
    Current inflation is high, but you are suggesting a kneejerk reaction where gear and max level power progression would mean literally nothing.

    Freshly dinged character shouldn't be able to do hardest content right away.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Safol View Post
    The stat squish removed a ton of what made the game fun for me, before though now that's already ruined, might aswell. Don't think it can have many consequrences after the first.
    Can you elaborate what parts of the game it ruined that you specifically enjoyed?
    I myself think that low level content was intentionally or unintentionally overnerfed, but other than that I think it mostly brought good things with it.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Current inflation is high, but you are suggesting a kneejerk reaction where gear and max level power progression would mean literally nothing.

    Freshly dinged character shouldn't be able to do hardest content right away.
    Of course. There is still gear difference, but not massive. Then there is tuning. Easy modes could be tuned to anyone, mythic could be tuned for players with optimal performance and optimal stats. Catching up would no longer mean getting higher ilevel, but being smart about choosing gear.

    Freshly leveled characters don't have optimal gear. Hardcore players would have optimal gear and higher ilevel and more experience playing their classes. That's massive difference.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by coprax View Post
    I don't remember why and when they switched to a 15 level difference between tiers, instead of 13.
    But it was also a contributing factor to the whole mess. In a time when they introduced so many difficulty-/item level-plateaus per tier this exaggerated the whole process even more. Dumb decision.
    ToS and Antorus are a full +30 from previous tier. So that's pretty much inflating things even further.

    Antorus Mythic loot will go to 960-970 (985 TF), huge compared to like ToS LFR (885-895), and thats 1 "tier" jump due to multi difficulties.

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