Did Musk just hit a home run with Tesla 3?

[Deleted]

It
Will not happen. So no amazing car for you.
(I REALLY don't get why people ask for a dealership, when all it does is add a hefty premium to the price. Too much money?)

Actually, there are "Tesla Shops" in germany.

Dealerships won't help with production.

They do, as they hold cars in stock no matter if there are enough customers. Tesla has the opposite problem. Hundred thousands of possible customers but no chance to actually deliver in a timely manner.

Every new product that is in very high demand will run out quickly

Just a matter of planning it correctly. If customers have to wait for years, something is going wrong.

I dont want to pay 1000$ to wait one or two years to get a car. I want to pay 35.000$ now and get my car.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I mean that's not what you asked. The methods I provided aren't possible for an electric car.

You really have to work to get yourself into that kind of situation:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2.../#55356bf43e48

As you are driving, the Tesla does the following:

When you leave the range of all known chargers, the car warns you. It could be that you know of a new charger the car hasn't visited, but it warns you that you are leaving the area with known chargers.

If you are navigating to a destination, the car will know remaining range and distance to your end point. You are often coming from a SuperCharger and going to the next SuperCharger. If your energy usage is significantly higher than expected while you are close to the last SuperCharger, the Tesla will direct you to return to it to charge further.

If you are approaching your destination and low on range, the Tesla will recommend a specific speed reduction to ensure you reach your destination. For example, it might recommend driving 65 mph instead of 75 mph. It will remind you again every few minutes. It will also update the speed recommendation as needed. These warnings are very hard to ignore.

As the range gets below 10% remaining, the battery symbol turns yellow and then red.

If you run out of charge on the road, it will be in spite of the best efforts of the car. You have to ignore a significant number of warnings. The kind of warnings that get your attention. Things like chimes, yellow exclamation points on the driver cluster and yellow border pop ups on the main screen.

[Deleted]

220miles is 350km. That's with optimal driving, which is not realistically possible, so actual range is much lower. Its about half of what I often need to drive (about 700km route). There are no charging stations on that route, though they've put several "planned" stations on map, but still they are so far away from each other that if one of them would be out of order, I'd be screwed. No charging stations anywhere near my apartment building, making it uncomfortable for day to day usage.

For same price I can get top end model of Opel (Vauxhall for people from UK) Zafira that is way more comfortable for both driver and passengers with cool panoramic roof that easily rivals Tesla X roof view, massive boot space or 7 seats (last row is folding, so it can be big boot or 2 seats) and bicycle rack for up to 4 bicycles. Why would I want Tesla?

Useless. Massive changes to infrastructure are required before Tesla could be more than a toy.

[Independent voter]

Bloomberg Business says "the electric car has arrived". The video is ripped from their site, if you want you can see the better version on the bloomberg website along with the article

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ges-everything

Bloomberg says the lucrative luxury car market in the US is likely to be heavily impacted by Tesla. If this is true it's bad news for the Japanese.

[lockedout]

You really have to work to get yourself into that kind of situation:

Again not the situation we were discussing. In our situation you ran out of battery vs. running out of gas. You have more options when you run out of gas. You made it seem like your options were equal (tow truck). I was just pointing out they aren't and you keep changing the topic/moving the goal posts.

[Afrospinach]

Useless.

They are still great for city driving, they are like the polar opposite of ICE. Great for trundling around town, great for local emissions.

[flam]

Lets assume petroleum powered vehicles go the way of the dinosaur, everyone has electric cars. I could be wrong but I believe the US for example currently uses 86% of the power it generates. Now lets toss in a 263.3 million electric cars into the mix that need to plug into the power grid... how in the hell is that going to work?

The US power grid is currently something like 14% green, with hydro making up 45% of all green power.

While we are making steps in the right direction, I don't see our dependence of petroleum going away in my lifetime.

[ati87]

Lets assume petroleum powered vehicles go the way of the dinosaur, everyone has electric cars. I could be wrong but I believe the US for example currently uses 86% of the power it generates. Now lets toss in a 263.3 million electric cars into the mix that need to plug into the power grid... how in the hell is that going to work?

The US power grid is currently something like 14% green, with hydro making up 45% of all green power.

While we are making steps in the right direction, I don't see our dependence of petroleum going away in my lifetime.

It's a good thing that this isn't the case with Europe now is it then. Their are some differences between cars sold in the US and in Europe but generally speaking the differences aren't game changing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...e-sources-2016

if cars in Europe and Asia are forced to become more electric then you can be god dam sure the same thing will happen in the US no mater how much whining.

Why do you think we all use USB chargers now? Because the EU semi-forced OEM companies

[Deleted]

Again one of the few that actually have this problem. But once again a good opportunity to ask why trains and planes aren't utilized for such distances, which in all the cases I did here, none were ever answered. Huh.

If you don't know answer to that, you have never traveled by car anywhere.

In last few years I did over 100.000km worth of long distance travels, wouldn't even consider doing them on public transportation. Convenience, cost, time. Trains/planes travel from and to specific locations at set times. You can't stop where you want to. You are limited in what you can carry. You are limited in travel destinations. You are tied to time table.

With simple 700km route that I often do, I can take what I want with me, I can stop at beach in middle of route for quick swim or stop at forest to gather mushrooms/berries (season just started), I can travel directly from my home to target location and it would be faster. It requires about 45litres of petrol, so entire trip costs about 55-60 euro. Using public transportation for 3-4 people (that's the number of people we usually travel with) would cost a bit more. There is not a single upside to using bus/train.

Long distance travel: 5-7k km. Stopping where I want to, taking scenic routes. People who travel by public transportation usually stay in just one city. That's not my kind of travel. I prefer to visit many cities on my way. Of course same can be done by taking a rental, but its limited to areas near destination instead of entire route and is very expensive.

Though experiences vary. My car is very comfortable with ergonomic seats, lots of leg room for everyone, lots of boot space, its a tall minivan so view is excellent. I wouldn't want to travel in smaller car. We always travel in group of 3 or 4 people, stop at obscure locations that bus/train travelers would have issues accessing.

Traveling by car is fun. Unfortunately electric cars aren't ready for that yet. Out of Tesla models, only Tesla X is usable, but it still has range issue and massive price tag.

[Inshabel]

They are only as clean as they way the electricity was generated, not much use switching to an electric car if your electricity is still being generated with fossil fuels.

[Hobb]

You can charge your tesla from home. They're still useless for road trips however (long distance travel).

Not really true. I travel cross country in the US on vacation and there's quite a few combo gas/charger stations out in the middle of no where.

There really needs to be more, but they are growing.

[Gamdwelf]

Lets assume petroleum powered vehicles go the way of the dinosaur, everyone has electric cars. I could be wrong but I believe the US for example currently uses 86% of the power it generates. Now lets toss in a 263.3 million electric cars into the mix that need to plug into the power grid... how in the hell is that going to work?

The US power grid is currently something like 14% green, with hydro making up 45% of all green power.

While we are making steps in the right direction, I don't see our dependence of petroleum going away in my lifetime.

Adding 60 sq miles of solar panels to the entirety of the USA could power the whole country.

60 sq miles is nothing

[Poopymonster]

Yeah. I am sure the Testla 3 will not have that driving feeling. Instead we get a auto pilot thats not really working yet.

If there ever should be a Tesla 3 available at my local car dealer, i will buy one. Seems up to now it is limited to a year long waiting queue where i wonder Tesla ever will be able to get it done.



For the bigger Tesla there already exist portable Stations.

They sell direct, no middle man bullshit. Which is why in some states you can't buy a Tesla there. Texas for example, Houston Galleria has a showroom where you can look at them, but they can't "sell" you one, such as discussing prices. I'd bet good money people go in there intentionally asking for shit the employees there can't do/talk about just to be dicks. The no selling direct is due to car dealer butthurt. They CAN point you to a computer in the showroom where you can get your questions answered and place an order for purchase. You pick it up in another state, pay taxes/fees there, get title and shit transferred to Texas, pay more taxes/fees.

[Osmeric]

Adding 60 sq miles of solar panels to the entirety of the USA could power the whole country.

60 sq miles is nothing

You have made an arithmetic mistake somewhere.

60 sq. miles is ~150 square kilometers. At 20% efficiency and 100% module coverage this will deliver ~200 W/m^2 in peak sunlight, or about 30 GW. Divide that by say 3 for average output, so 10 GW.

Average US end user consumption of electrical power is about 440 GW.

Now, granted, the land needed is still quite affordable and practical and will contribute very little to the cost of generating electrical power, compared to the rest of the cost of the system.

[ro9ue]

I would buy one, but still waiting for a charging station that's closer to me.

[Superdon]

Ah, the "feel good" of buying an electric car. So much "smug" pollution. I for one won't be signing on anytime soon, for 3 main reasons.

The first and largest of those reasons: COST. 35k for a car honestly isn't THAT bad. But a 200 mile range here in the US would mean it's a "town car" only, and only useful going back and forth to work, in which case i can get a nice fuel efficient new car for $15k-20k, (USD) and save a lot of $$. And I've have to do some research here, but last time i checked... BATTERIES WEAR OUT. Unless Tesla is giving me a free battery replacement every 5 years (at least once), i'll pass. The batteries in these things would be NEW ENGINE LEVEL pricing installed I'm sure.

Second, you're buying a great deal of SMUG. "My car creates NO POLLUTION." That is a load of horse dung. For most of us here on planet earth, electricity comes from COAL FIRED POWER PLANTS. Now if you're one of those 1%ers that has a windmill in back yard of your mansion, as well as a ton of solar panels on their 100 acre ranch, well then you win. But for most of us, that means trading one "evil" for another. And doing the pollution math, I'm not even sure that this is the "lesser" of 2 evils. If EVERYONE bought into the smug RIGHT NOW, it would CRIPPLE the power grid in a LOT of places, requiring more power plants... and probably more coal.

And thirdly, MY TIME. As i pointed out above, this would be a "town car". But what if electric cars were all we had? A few of the "LOL PARIS ACCORD" nations are banning regular cars in the next 10-20 years. So you SPLURGE and get a car you can't afford, and get the 310 mile one. You drive 300 miles, and are LUCKY enough to find a charging station along the interstate... No worries, you'll be fully charged and back on the road in about 2-4 hours. GRATZ. Most of the "power stations" here in the US are the "medium" ones, charging in 2-4 hours. Not the 30 minute ones (that only SOME electic cars have). And EVEN IF there's a 30 minute one, what if there's a LINE? OMG. Pumping gas takes 2-10 minutes for unleaded typically. I'll pass on the 2 hour "gas" lines.

I hate to dump on Tesla, their cars are actually REALLY COOL looking, and they appeal the the "I need a new iPhone" every 6 months crowd of liberals. They're running a successful business, and that's where it's at. At some point, I believe they may be able to increase the efficiency and the price point of these vehicles to something that i would definitely buy... Just not today

Superdon

[Gamdwelf]

You have made an arithmetic mistake somewhere.

60 sq. miles is ~150 square kilometers. At 20% efficiency and 100% module coverage this will deliver ~200 W/m^2 in peak sunlight, or about 30 GW. Divide that by say 3 for average output, so 10 GW.

Average US end user consumption of electrical power is about 440 GW.

Now, granted, the land needed is still quite affordable and practical and will contribute very little to the cost of generating electrical power, compared to the rest of the cost of the system.

Maybe, mathed it out probably 10 years ago in highschool with even less efficient panels I'm sure it's better now, even though we use more energy.

Edit: recalced with 2015 numbers and it's like 7k sq miles.

That is .23% total area of the USA not even counting Alaska or Hawaii

[Superdon]

Ah, the "feel good" of buying an electric car. So much "smug" pollution. I for one won't be signing on anytime soon, for 3 main reasons.

The first and largest of those reasons: COST. 35k for a car honestly isn't THAT bad. But a 200 mile range here in the US would mean it's a "town car" only, and only useful going back and forth to work, in which case i can get a nice fuel efficient new car for $15k-20k, (USD) and save a lot of $$. And I've have to do some research here, but last time i checked... BATTERIES WEAR OUT. Unless Tesla is giving me a free battery replacement every 5 years (at least once), i'll pass. The batteries in these things would be NEW ENGINE LEVEL pricing installed I'm sure.

Second, you're buying a great deal of SMUG. "My car creates NO POLLUTION." That is a load of horse dung. For most of us here on planet earth, electricity comes from COAL FIRED POWER PLANTS. Now if you're one of those 1%ers that has a windmill in back yard of your mansion, as well as a ton of solar panels on their 100 acre ranch, well then you win. But for most of us, that means trading one "evil" for another. And doing the pollution math, I'm not even sure that this is the "lesser" of 2 evils. If EVERYONE bought into the smug RIGHT NOW, it would CRIPPLE the power grid in a LOT of places, requiring more power plants... and probably more coal.

And thirdly, MY TIME. As i pointed out above, this would be a "town car". But what if electric cars were all we had? A few of the "LOL PARIS ACCORD" nations are banning regular cars in the next 10-20 years. So you SPLURGE and get a car you can't afford, and get the 310 mile one. You drive 300 miles, and are LUCKY enough to find a charging station along the interstate... No worries, you'll be fully charged and back on the road in about 2-4 hours. GRATZ. Most of the "power stations" here in the US are the "medium" ones, charging in 2-4 hours. Not the 30 minute ones (that only SOME electic cars have). And EVEN IF there's a 30 minute one, what if there's a LINE? OMG. Pumping gas takes 2-10 minutes for unleaded typically. I'll pass on the 2 hour "gas" lines.

I hate to dump on Tesla, their cars are actually REALLY COOL looking, and they appeal to the "I need a new iPhone" every 6 months crowd of liberals. They're running a successful business, and that's where it's at. At some point, I believe they may be able to increase the efficiency and the price point of these vehicles to something that i would definitely buy... Just not today

Superdon

[McFuu]

A lot of the major manufactures already have plans to move away from combustion engines completely. There will be a massive increase in R&D for hybrid/electrics in the next 5-10 years

Yes, R&D and one maybe 2 electric vehicles in their model range. I know the plans. The issue isn't car manufacturers, it's infrastructure. We would need to update energy grids, install massive amounts of charging stations, everywhere. You know when you go to the mall, a solid 10-20% of those parking spots would have to support charging. We would have to find a way to recycle, or create different batteries, I believe Tesla has already run into a little bit of a material sourcing issue.

Hybrids are most likely to be our future for the next 50. But massive amounts of all electric vehicles in the next 10 years, is probably impossible. Unless every state around the country started putting in charging stations, working on electrical grids, right now. And I'm not even talking about every car, if 10% of the cars on the road were electric we would have major issues.

[Aggrophobic]

Did you even read what I typed? Re-read it and tell me I can charge it from home. Infact, I'll give you a pic of where I stay, I live in the blue circle area, then tell me I can charge it from home. Go on, explain how the hell I am meant to charge an electric car from my home in a safe way?

Then get the company that owns the house to add a station. They can even make money of that as you'll have to pay for the power.