Titanforged and a casual

[Jtbrig7390]

yes, but current mythic ToS players need to do all dificulties of ToS, all dificulties of NH, all dificulties of EN, and world bosses to have the optimal chances

And that's a choice they made, Not something forced on them. The current system is in place to keep the vast majority of the players (casuals) playing.

Those same (hardcore) players had to do everything they could in Classic,TBC,Wrath,Cata,Mop,Wod to stay optimal as well. Your issue is the amount of things you have to do now compared to before.

I say, sorry but that's how it is. The game is centered around the sub 5% anymore.

[Arainie]

My guild keeps getting 930-950 titanforges from our heroic runs, almost to the point of making heroic clears mandatory because we still see so many upgrades there even after the 6th clear. I'd absolutely love it if Titanforges were simply capped in some way. I know some of you will tell us that you "don't have to do things" just because they exist, but when the chance is as high to get a titanforged item from heroic raids as it is now that's not really true for a mythic raider. I can definitly argue that LFR and normal mode are long shots (but hey, our other spriest got a 935 tier chest from normal the other day), but heroic gear has a fairly large chance at being better than mythic gear as it stands today.

[Jujudrood]

Titanforging is a good concept, but in practice it's a bit... lacking.
To solve the whole 'I must farm EVERYTHING' mentality, they should revert items back to the MoP upgrade system, where an item is 0/2 (normal), then with valor you upgrade it to 1/2 and eventually 2/2.
Just make warforged drop as 1/2 and titanforged drop as 2/2.
That way, there is no need to farm your balls off for one piece hoping it TFs for 20 ilvls instead of 15 because 20 is the baseline for upgrade.
They can go further, make it 0/5 standard, wf drops 1/5 or 2/5, tf drop anywhere from 3/5-5/5.
Each 'level up' on gear gives 5 ilvls so it's kind of the same as today, but this way RNG isn't the only hope since you have a modicum of control, at least with what piece you 'forge' first.

Otherwise, if they don't change the system, I'm okay with it because I don't farm my balls off nor do I care about obtaining BiS or the 'correct stats' given my current stat weights, etc.
I play to down normal and heroic, and wf/tf as is helps with that, so it's fine.

[Ange]

I raid since vanilla and I like the Titanforge/Warforge change a lot.

Before Titanforge/Warforge was introduced, you had your lucky raidmember who just got BiS gear after the first 2 content weeks and switched to twinks or quit raiding till the next content.

The chance for a endless gearprogression is a great mechanic to keep people busy and not quit each content after 1-2 lucky weeks.

Im just a casual raider, I couldnt care less about the problems of the top 50 raiders who play 16 hours a day/7 days a week no matter what changes are in the game.

[kamuimac]

I raid since vanilla and I like the Titanforge/Warforge change a lot.

Before Titanforge/Warforge was introduced, you had your lucky raidmember who just got BiS gear after the first 2 content weeks and switched to twinks or quit raiding till the next content.

The chance for a endless gearprogression is a great mechanic to keep people busy and not quit each content after 1-2 lucky weeks.

Im just a casual raider, I couldnt care less about the problems of the top 50 raiders who play 16 hours a day/7 days a week no matter what changes are in the game.

oh ye i didnt even thought about it since i havent raid for past 3 years but no more stupid drama of "guys guys pls pls pls can i bring my 7th alt because main has nothing to get"

[Raelbo]

I don't understand why titanforged can proc up to 30 or 35 ilvls.

To extend the scope for gear progression.

The principle is pretty simple: The better your gear, the lower the probability of getting an upgrade, but there is always a chance at some upgrade. So the more you play, the closer you'll get to having BiS in every slot but the slower your progression becomes. Given infinite time you'd eventually hit BiS in every slot, but in practical terms you'll never actually get there.

What this means is that every player will continue to get stronger over time. The more effort you're willing to put in, the better your gear will be, although it will be with diminishing returns (eg put in X effort and you get +8 ilevels. Put in another X effort you get +4 more ilevels. Put in another X effort and you get +2 more ilevels).

The objective is not to get to BiS and players who choose to get hung up on this are going to frustrate themselves. The idea is that you decide how much time/effort you're prepared to put in. You'll always be able to put in more effort to get that tiny bit better, but it's entirely up to you to decide when it is no longer worth it.

• There is no more feeling of having nothing to gain from continuing to run instances with your character, you can keep doing them for pretty much as long as you want to.
• There is no more requirement to keep running instances you're sick and tired of in pursuit of BiS for the next tier.
• Guilds that are stuck on raid progression will continue to gear up, helping them to eventually get over those brick walls, without the need for nerfs
• Guilds can put in as much effort as they feel they want to set themselves up for the next tier

[Sanguinerd]

I honestly couldn't be more pleased with the TF system. It allows me as a casual yet very lucky soab to outperform elitist cucks and just know they're suffering looking at that dps meter.

[Deleted]

Idiots who think TF is a bad system, forgot or dont know how it worked before any "forged" drops came along.

You always farmed older content, the difference is now there is both AP and a possibility of getting a good procced item as a reward.
Contra that single set item or trinket ppl still farm for without any chance of proccing higher ilvls.

WF/TF system helps every single raid group.

Excuse me, but did you forget that we had other forms of gear catch-up like badge items from vendors? Holy crap...

Edit: With a fixed badge progression system you have the same options - like farming upgrades if you are casual from content of lower difficulty (=getting valor from daily quests and heroic dungeons), or getting items for slots where you don't get upgrades from raids because of bad luck (=bad luck protection for raiders).

We ALREADY HAD a good system to cover bad luck, to allow progress for casuals and such. WF/TF was not needed.

It's a scam from Blizzard to keep you running the same content over and over hoping for an item upgrade from the same source. How can people defend this shitty manipulation tactic? I hate it although I have profit from random upgrades, because I see the intent, and it's disgusting.

Now, in Diablo this works well. You can run content on your own, you have no lockouts. WoW is different. Such RNG bullshit should never had been in WoW first and foremost.

[Incarnia]

I as a casual utterly despise the current TF system. It is ridiculous with its huge jumps in ilvls and makes no sense what so ever in case of your character power progression path. It is all randomized and essentially boils down to if you are lucky. You are no longer rewarded for your actual feats and by doing challenging content but by how well - and how often - you pull that one armed bandit slot machine.

I much more preferred how the system worked in MoP should I compare it to something "similar" and make a choice which one to pick. The Legion system is way too RNG and disruptive to that character power progression path for my liking.

[Vaerys]

This could make for an interesting use of the Obliterum Forge. Multiple drops of the same item reforged to upgrade the particular pieces towards the item cap.

This is a feature of Final Fantasy Record Keeper. It would work great with Personal Loot, but I can just imagine the tears when someone is denied their 4pc to give somebody a +5 item level upgrade.

[Adlian]

I think the titanforged system need a little tweak. A heroic item should never exceed a mythic item quality no matter what.
Here is what i have in mind:

Normal: base ilvl: 880
WF ilvl: 885
TG ilvl: 890

Heroic: base ilvl: 895
WF ilvl: 900
TG ilvl: 905

Myhtic: base ilvl: 910
WF ilvl: 915
TF ilvl: 920

Follow this rule and the system will be fixed without sacrificing replayability

I don't understand why titanforged can proc up to 30 or 35 ilvls.

That. Getting a 930 item from normal is just silly, whats the point of doing higher difficulties when you can get the same ilvl from Normal?

[Xjev]

You are no casual if you are doing world content zillion times to get a chance for good titanforge ilvl drops. Those kind of players are super hardcore in my eyes.

[gallamann]

Majority doesnt care if a casual gets one piece of gear higher than Mythic.

Problem with TF is that its not capped at some point and gives "false" hope, others call it incentive to play but its not that.

I shouldnt have to go and farm some 930-950 EN trinket for my BM to be considered BiS.

I shouldnt have to go and farm some M+ for my BiS relic because relics in the Active Raid have shit bonuses (Whoever thought this was a good idea, wtf).

Etc etc.

That is the problem that is created..Random casual got a TF? Who gives a fuck.

Fellow raider got 3 BiS TF Relics in 10 runs while i am already at my 100th and havent gotten it? <--Problem that causes the QQ.

There is generally a weird balance with Relics and trinkets, or well major imbalance, making older trinkets better if they TF etc, which is bad concept.

I see these posts and am like "WTF, farm EN for a 955". Why are you wasting that much time chasing a minuscule chance at maybe a 1% DPS bump?

The game isn't what demands you to go back, that is your own desire to literally win the lottery. Hell you have a better chance to be struck by lightning... TWICE in the same spot!

Personally I highly doubt this is the true reason, all you need to do is look at past. Remember when cache could drop trinket from end boss even though you had never killed it. Holy fuck did high end raiders scream and get that changed. Even though that trinket was NEVER going to impact their raid.

It is all loot envy. TF in anothers hands isn't helping or harming your raid, group or solo play, nor is getting that EN trinket to TF suddenly going to change your raids progression in ToS.

[potis]

I see these posts and am like "WTF, farm EN for a 955". Why are you wasting that much time chasing a minuscule chance at maybe a 1% DPS bump?

The game isn't what demands you to go back, that is your own desire to literally win the lottery. Hell you have a better chance to be struck by lightning... TWICE in the same spot!

Personally I highly doubt this is the true reason, all you need to do is look at past. Remember when cache could drop trinket from end boss even though you had never killed it. Holy fuck did high end raiders scream and get that changed. Even though that trinket was NEVER going to impact their raid.

It is all loot envy. TF in anothers hands isn't helping or harming your raid, group or solo play, nor is getting that EN trinket to TF suddenly going to change your raids progression in ToS.

No, thats the loud minority of 18-20 year old fake mythic raiders stuck with their guild for months at same bosses, but because they do mythic they think they are good, most do not give a fuck.

[Deleted]

All this rng bullshit is fine in the grand scheme, but when you see a ilvl 850 demon hunter alt called Illîdäñxxzxz from <ScrubLords> with a 920 socket(+100 versa of course) Arcanocrystal you take a look at the noose hanging in your closet once again and let out a deep, longing sigh.

[Deleted]

It seems to that PvE players don't actually enjoy PvE, the enjoy the rewards it grants you. PvP players play PvP for the sake of PvP and not it's rewards, reading some of the comments makes realize that PvE players don't play PvE for the sake of PvE, they need an incentive to play PvE in the forms of powerful gear.

[Deleted]

titanforging is awful just because it devalue mythic raiding loot.

It simply mean you can get better reward from doing less work just because you got lucky. This is the sole reason it NEEDS to be capped

Any by cap I mean the ilvl of current raid you're doing can't exceed the base ilvl of the next one: Normal gear caps at base heroic ilvl, heroic gear caps at base mythic ilvl


HOWEVER

wf/tf system is actually really good for m+ content and it should stay like it is there

[Zigrifid]

As i said WF/TF mechanism is ok

[tennesine]

Good god it sounds like half these "hardcore" raiders want BiS everything just because they feel entitled because they stepped foot into a heroic or mythic raid. Blizz may as well just have a silver platter there in the entrance with every piece of high end gear for no work at all. That's literally how some people are making this out to be. Sounds like a ton of fun to do nothing and get everything you need. I'm sure you'll quit in like a week if that happened.

There has always been luck and RNG in this game and it's an MMO so you should expect this. If you want to run EN 5000 times because of a tiny chance at some BiS trinket titanforge that's your own choice. You're supposed to work at getting BiS gear and luck has always played a factor into this.

It's a video game, enjoy it and have fun but if you want to try for a 1% chance at something good that's all on you. And if you believe that Asmongold bullshit "fun is for casuals herp derp" then you need to re-evaluate your life.

[MasterHamster]

what you desribing is a completly unlikely scenario - i have 12 alts and out of world content highest TF i have recived was 925 - i have never peronaly seen highest TF than that - is it possible from HC ToS ? maybe but again its completly unlikely

anyone who is claiming how lfr players are runing around in TF 930-955 gear is straight runing - is there 1 out of milion players who was so lucky ? maybe but i have yet to encounter such person

I was a bit unclear, but I think it's a bit strange than Heroic raiders kind of slowly inch so close to Mythic raiders. I think TF should be capped 5-10ilvls below the latest tier highest Mythic drop.


And as you say, wheni t comes to WQ and world content in general, 99% of players will probably never see anything TF to 940+. At least not until they increase WQ baseline again. People posting screenshots of someone winning the TF lottery is not an argument that is very convincing once you look at the numbers.