[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Jastall]

I have to disagree with the impossible distance. Dragonstone is further, by sea from Casterly Rock than King's Landing. Also King's landing is on the way to Dorne from Dragonstone. Euron would of intercepted the first time while they were sailing by, been rather close to KL, had the one day parade and stuff, and took off after the rest. Grey Worm and crew showed up earlier and Euron showed up a bit later but still in time. Ironborne were considered ship people, would make sense their boats are a bit better and faster...

Plus the episodes are not real time, there is off screen travel going on.

The difference in distance is minimal, considering the length of the journey. Dragonstone is almost right off the shore of King's Landing. Dany's fleet was composed of transport ships (which are usually faster than full-fledged warships) and left port ahead of the Greyjoy fleet, which is also so huge that it would be extremely difficult to coordinate. Dany's fleet is also, lest we forgot, composed of Ironborn ships crewed by Ironborn sailors.

In the meantime Euron's fleet had the time to 1) wait for the night/fog and ambush Yara's fleet which was heading to Dorne, 2) go back to King's Landing to parade the Sand Snakes around, then 3) resupply, 1000 ships don't run on air and 4) lift anchor and sail all the way to Casterly Rock, arriving at about the same time as Dany's fleet despite being presumably slower, having to make several detours, and setting sail much later. There's also nothing that indicates that Euron wasn't present at Casterly Rock since the camera clearly showed that his own flagship was there.

It makes no sense. It's just as bad as Littlefinger and his jetpack. But at least they usually had LF travel for an episode so you could suspend disbelief. This time Euron sails halfway across a freaking continent the size of South America within half an episode, and he's not one ship but the biggest armada ever.

[Acidz]

Don't know.. I'm still not convinced yet by the current season. It somehow feels kinda off. The high pace, the makeshift dialogues, the storytelling.. it all feels rather superficial and lacking in depth and flair. Perhaps my expectations were just too high.

[Deleted]

But I'm not going to pretend that the scene wasn't meant to be disturbing and show some rape, while also showing their completely dysfunctional relationship.

And it was NEITHER. Couples have plays where one pretend not to want it so calling it rape is YOU

I'm triggered.

and btw that the relationship being dysfunctional is already there by them being brother and sister.

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I get you're trying to make a point with the whole "no" thing, but you'd have to be daft to think the scene and events were in anyway similar.

Ofc when a man says No its not the same as when a woman says it, gotcha.

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GoT

IRL

If you call that SAME height there is something wrong with you.

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His number is up in the next episode. There's just no way it isn't.

Nope he survives 4. And I bet a bit longer

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But would Bran even care at this point? He's got this first time shrooms I'm transcended and your mortal problems mean nothing to me anymore vibe going on now

Yep cause he is more worried about the whitewalkers then human medelings.

[RobertoCarlos]

Don't know.. I'm still not convinced yet by the current season. It somehow feels kinda off. The high pace, the makeshift dialogues, the storytelling.. it all feels rather superficial and lacking in depth and flair. Perhaps my expectations were just too high.

Its incredibly safe to say the show peaked in season3/4 and has buckled under its own weight for awhile now. It got to the writers heads no doubt and you have GRRM too busy getting paid $10,000 to have a sit down meal with a fan, just perfect for ole george so they cant burrow from the god himself.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Nope he survives 4. And I bet a bit longer

I'll take that wager. What are you offering?

[Ilikegreenfire]

I'll take that wager. What are you offering?

He survives.



He dies in episode 7 Sansa sentences him to death and Arya comes up and slits his throat from behind mirroring how Lf betrayed Ned in the throne room in season one.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

He survives.

Still waiting on the wager.

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Anyways, I'm not discussing the Cersei and Jamie scene anymore. You have your opinion, I have mine.

One should always disregard the "opinion" of people like the above. To them, everything is rape.

"Hey baby, wanna have sex?"
"No, I'm not in the mood."
"Please?"
"Ugh, fine! But you have to do the dishes tonight."

RAPE! She clearly didn't want it and that evil MALE pressured her into it, at gunpoint most likely. What a disgusting pig.
^ How they think.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Still waiting on the wager.

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One should always disregard the "opinion" of people like the above. To them, everything is rape.

"Hey baby, wanna have sex?"
"No, I'm not in the mood."
"Please?"
"Ugh, fine! But you have to do the dishes tonight."

RAPE! She clearly didn't want it and that evil MALE pressured her into it, at gunpoint most likely. What a disgusting pig.
^ How they think.

Back to Winterfell, a scene long coming…. Sansa gathers all the northern bannermen and the vale leaders… here when all the lords are present sansa calls on Arya to come forward which is when Arya starts to worry that this is her last day alive, sansa then says it’s time to judge the great treacheries and betrayals that have been done to the north and we will judge the person responsible for them, she looks straight at Arya, sansa then says “you need to tell me how many times you have betrayed the north”.. Arya is can’t believe her sister is saying this to her, sansa says it again “you need to tell me how many times you have betrayed the north, Lord Baelish”…. (fuuuuuuuuhh) at this moment sansa starts to name all his treacheries: “you killed Alyssa Arryn, (talks about the letter from Jon Arryn about Cersei and Jamie’s bastards which LF was also involved in his murder)” this is also when she pulls out the cat’s paw dagger and they ask him if he recognized the dagger which LF said belonged to Tyrion, but that they knew it was his…. Next to Sansa is bran who is the one that has told her all these things (one can only assume there is more) then Bran says “you once told my father ‘I told you not to trust me’ (first season)” LF is shocked when he hears this... then Sansa tells all the lords present how he sold her to the Bolton’s… LF realizes he’s pretty much fucked but he tries to LF his way out by feeding them lies and asking for help from Yohn Royce (vale guy with the oversized armor) and others and Friki says that LF ends up looking pretty pathetic now that he knows he’s pretty much dead… in the end Sansa tells LF “Lord Baelish, thank you for all your lessons” and after she tells him that Arya comes behind him and cut his throat… LF starts to choke in his own blood and falls to the ground holding his throat and dies…

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/co...review_and_qa/

[Sooba]

Disagree. I am a strong believer in (f)Aegon but there is nothing in the text that certainly indicates that he is fake. Same situation with Tyrion - there are quite a bit of small things that might indicate to the fact that he is Aerys' but nothing certain.

It's hundreds of pages back now, but I dealt with both Aegon and Tyrion's actual ancestries in painstaking detail. Some folks are still around who read through it, so I won't make them read it again. Lemme know if you want it PM'd.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/co...review_and_qa/

Still waiting for the wager.

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Negative. You should search my comments on here about the infamous Sansa scene

You assume I give enough of a shit about you to do so. Or even care.

[Sooba]

I don't think they are either but it is theoretically possible. Jaime/Cersei are blonde (although not that white-blonde of the Targaryens) and have that Targaryen penchant for fucking their siblings. If they are in fact Targaryens then it is possible that the prophecy regarding Cersei's death could mean that she is killed by Jon Snow (all signs point to him being a Targaryen at this point) rather than Jamie or Tyrion.

Read "A World of Ice and Fire". It is not possible for C&J to be Targaryens. Their birth does not line up with Joanna being anywhere near a Targ within a good 3 months of conception.

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/Snip


You assume I give enough of a shit about you to do so. Or even care.

So you ad-hom, and then when given evidence that she's not that way, you say "I don't care". How's about you actually deal with the topic instead of cluttering up the thread with being an ass? It's really weird because this sort of thing used to be Garian. But you're capable of far better discussion.

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In regards to Danny, it felt so out of place when she blamed Varys and ordered him to swear loyalty. Like... this dude gave you Dorne and Highgarden allies and you talk in a tone suggesting you want to kill him. He did what he could to survive, not everyone believes in ideals or is handed everything for free.

I was just like, wtf u doing bitch

He sent an assassin after her. Suspicion isn't out of bounds.

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"How do you know all this?"
"The three eyed raven taught me."
"I thought you were the three eyed raven?"
"I told you it's difficult to explain."

What? No, it's not. There was this original three eyed raven but he died, and he taught me how to be one so now I'm the next three eyed raven. It's incredibly easy to lay out the basics of this, but no, it's "difficult to explain" because of scripts.

Sorry guys, I just had to, this bothered me unnecessarily much. Oh, and also Dany being arrogant and annoying, I'm almost hoping she doesn't win anymore. Isch.

On the plus side, Tyrion and Olenna rocks as always, Sand snakes gets what they deserve, and Euron continues to amuse. Decent episode ^^

No need for apologies friend. That lack of explanation was incredibly poor writing - ruining verisimilitude in the name of "tension". Sucks when you get pulled out-of-world by stuff like that. That and the pacing being wonky, leading to teleporter effects. It's like the show lags and then suddenly catches up.

I'm ok with Dany's assertions. She's had a rough couple of first engagements. She's new to the game.

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Stannis held Storm's End with small crew for a year, against the entire might of the Reach. The stronghold of a richer house, with a good position on top of a hill, offered a great asset against splintered Reach force and a part of Lannister army. The one that suffered losses left and right and part of which is probably stationed in King's Landing to defend it. The army we saw marching on Highgarden was anything but impressive.




Storm with what? The mountain acting like a battering ram? They didn't even have siege ladders.

The pacing is suffering due to summary-like treatment. I guess we have to assume Tarly did it right and somehow found a breach. To be fair, while the family was richer, the castle at Highgarden is not given the same "impregnable" treatment as Storm's End in the books. It seems they really never needed to be as they were the most populous and second-richest Kingdom, and well positioned behind multiple other castles (marcher lords) from their traditional enemies. Internal mutiny on the other hand...

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Euron does have magic.

Which the show really hasn't shown at all, leaving show watchers to note bad pacing. Oh well.

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It took her seven seasons to realize that the common folk of Westeros doesn't have wet dreams about the idea of her returning. At the current pace of her realizing things about rulership, we'd need a tad few seasons more than planned for her to get this one.

/Snip

To be fair, she realized before. She just didn't have someone give her the same sort of speech since around S2. She recognized the seeds of it, and called it out. Perhaps prematurely because I don't think that's where Varys was going with his thought.

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I have this feeling Jamie is going to strangle her, tyrion style but instead of a scarf/bed linings it will be his hand.

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Solid chance of that prediction, Carlos. Best candidates are Jaime's Golden+regular hand, or the Hand of the Queen (also possibly Jaime) with the Hand's necklace (as each link in the chain is a hand.)

[BarelyLegalBear]

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Solid chance of that prediction, Carlos. Best candidates are Jaime's Golden+regular hand, or the Hand of the Queen (also possibly Jaime) with the Hand's necklace (as each link in the chain is a hand.)

Here's the real question, since valonqar means little brother, which brother will do the chokin!?

[Ilikegreenfire]

Read "A World of Ice and Fire". It is not possible for C&J to be Targaryens. Their birth does not line up with Joanna being anywhere near a Targ within a good 3 months of conception.

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So you ad-hom, and then when given evidence that she's not that way, you say "I don't care". How's about you actually deal with the topic instead of cluttering up the thread with being an ass? It's really weird because this sort of thing used to be Garian. But you're capable of far better discussion.

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He sent an assassin after her. Suspicion isn't out of bounds.

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No need for apologies friend. That lack of explanation was incredibly poor writing - ruining verisimilitude in the name of "tension". Sucks when you get pulled out-of-world by stuff like that. That and the pacing being wonky, leading to teleporter effects. It's like the show lags and then suddenly catches up.

I'm ok with Dany's assertions. She's had a rough couple of first engagements. She's new to the game.

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The pacing is suffering due to summary-like treatment. I guess we have to assume Tarly did it right and somehow found a breach. To be fair, while the family was richer, the castle at Highgarden is not given the same "impregnable" treatment as Storm's End in the books. It seems they really never needed to be as they were the most populous and second-richest Kingdom, and well positioned behind multiple other castles (marcher lords) from their traditional enemies. Internal mutiny on the other hand...

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Which the show really hasn't shown at all, leaving show watchers to note bad pacing. Oh well.

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To be fair, she realized before. She just didn't have someone give her the same sort of speech since around S2. She recognized the seeds of it, and called it out. Perhaps prematurely because I don't think that's where Varys was going with his thought.

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"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Solid chance of that prediction, Carlos. Best candidates are Jaime's Golden+regular hand, or the Hand of the Queen (also possibly Jaime) with the Hand's necklace (as each link in the chain is a hand.)

He has the same magically youthful appearance he does from the books, hes only a few years younger than balon but looks about 30 also in the bridge scene where balon is getting blown about euron just chills in the middle of the bouncing bridge, giving his i am the Storm speech

[Sooba]

He does have valid point actually, also Euron is more of an Admerial now. We know Euron uses magic anyway, he could have conjured up a storm or two to delay the unsullied, or have given himself favorable winds.

Again, we have no such evidence in the show. If this were the books I'd grant you this point. Show watchers are going to have verisimilitude issues because this reasoning just isn't there.

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He has the same magically youthful appearance he does from the books, hes only a few years younger than balon but looks about 30 also in the bridge scene where balon is getting blown about euron just chills in the middle of the bouncing bridge, giving his i am the Storm speech

All of which will simply seem jarring to a show-only person. Or not noticed (bridge scene.)

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Here's the real question, since valonqar means little brother, which brother will do the chokin!?

No clue. And as others have noted - valonqar, like TPTWP prophecy, is gender neutral. This opens it up to a lot of possibilities for younger siblings. If we assume it's her younger sibling that obviously reduces it to two. If we assume A+J=T, that leaves her with only one full-blooded younger bro. Too many "if's" to be sure, though.

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No its not



No its not


http://dannyselvag.com/theknownworld/

You. I like you.

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/Snip

They really need (or should have; it's too late now) to have done a better job with that. But so far, that's my only real criticism for the show.


Why the fuck would you think those two things are mutually exclusive?

Anyway, does anyone have any running theories on who the mole is in Dany's inner circle? Since divination magic hasn't even been remotely hinted at, they have to have an informant somewhere in their ranks. We can easily scratch off the vast majority of her people, pretty much just leaving Yara (nope), Reek (nope), Tirion (nope), and Varys as possibilities. And of those, as you might have guessed from my nopes, only Varys seems a possibility, especially given his little speech about how "we're all lions" in the first episode of the season. Why he would be helping Cersei, though, is a complete mystery given all his other motivations. I mean, he clearly recognizes that Dany is the best bet for a stable Westeros, and he's lost most if not all of his spy network, his reputation, and his position to Qyburn with Cersei's blessing. So why would he do it?

I just can't figure it out. And if it's not Varys, who else could it possibly be?

Also, after watching Hodor's death scene again, I realized that we probably haven't seen the last of him considering how he died. :'(

This is what I mean when I said you're capable of better.

OT - I'm not sure they'd need a mole. Their plans were largely predicted before they even landed on Dragonstone. The mouth of Blackwater Bay stands athwart the path from Dragonstone to Dorne. So a large fleet there would intercept ships headed to KL, The Stormlands, Dorne and beyond. All Euron had to do was sit there. That part isn't so much an issue. The prediction of CR under attack would've been a bit rougher. However they would've had to sail all the way around Dorne and the Reach. They easily could've been spotted. The part that's hard to believe is Euron actually getting there so soon with so many ships in good order, after having msytically conjured so many to begin with and having already fought a battle.

The other part that seems a bit strange is how none of the other lords from the Reach had an issue with Tarly just taking control and marching his armies with the Lannisters to remove the Tyrells. Yes I know he's the kickass General (which the show didn't show at all.) That wouldn't stop his defection from turning into a shitshow of the highest order.

[TickTickTick]

He sent an assassin after her. Suspicion isn't out of bounds.

Yes. On Robert's order. You know, his king. As he said, he could obey or die.
Daenerys thinks that everyone should kneel before her and no obey no matter what cause she is a Targaryen. She thinks its a free pass for everything, cause her father sat on the Iron Throne, but actually its a curse and her greatest weakness. We all see how people judge her just by what her father did.
Noone is gonna assume you are a good gal just because you're pretty. Especially not if your father was mad and ready to kill thousands of people at once.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Again, we have no such evidence in the show. If this were the books I'd grant you this point. Show watchers are going to have verisimilitude issues because this reasoning just isn't there.

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All of which will simply seem jarring to a show-only person. Or not noticed (bridge scene.)

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No clue. And as others have noted - valonqar, like TPTWP prophecy, is gender neutral. This opens it up to a lot of possibilities for younger siblings. If we assume it's her younger sibling that obviously reduces it to two. If we assume A+J=T, that leaves her with only one full-blooded younger bro. Too many "if's" to be sure, though.

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You. I like you.

Euron's younger brother Aeron is in the show, he is the drowned priest in season 6. Euron appears 20-30 years younger than he does, here is the official family tree

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of.../house-greyjoy

[Sooba]

It's pretty clear that that was his "reward" more than his "punishment." The Archmaeaster not only believed his story about the wights, but also discovered that he's got mad skillz. And while he preaches that they're all about watching, not doing, he clearly realizes that's not where Sam's destiny lies and is doing what he can to help him now without risking his position at the Citadel.

Those old books and scrolls are almost assuredly texts that no one else at the Citadel puts much stock into, hence why they were allowed to get into that condition in the first place. So they're undoubtedly filled with the Good Stuff (tm) in regards to the wights and related myths and legends. There's practically no chance that they're not.

/Snip

Yes, Horace Slughorn might be giving Sam what he needs to progress in his intended areas of study. I do enjoy that he's been more-than-fair. He's not depicted as bumbling, overly pompous, or prejudiced. Sure he's not impressed (until the curing) and has given Sam menial duties. But that's par for the course, and he's been helpful besides.

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Euron's younger brother Aeron is in the show, he is the drowned priest in season 6. Euron appears 20-30 years younger than he does, here is the official family tree

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of.../house-greyjoy

Do you really think I don't know this? Jesus, man. I'm saying a show watcher won't put too much stock into this and won't think about it. Nor would they notice anything strange about the bridge scene.

[Sooba]

The problem is that the show clearly gives no fucks about telling us how much time has passed or what has happened in between things. For all we know the Unsullied stopped and took a break for a month on the way to Casterly Rock and let Euron catch up, or they didn't leave at all until after Euron's parade, or who knows what.

They're clearly very purposefully not letting us in on any timeline related stuff because they know they'd get pinned down one way or the other if they tried. So it's just purposefully left as a mess for us to wonder about.

Precisely. The consequence is the "warping" effect. It very much reminds me of when online games have latency issues. It's jarring.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Yes, Horace Slughorn might be giving Sam what he needs to progress in his intended areas of study. I do enjoy that he's been more-than-fair. He's not depicted as bumbling, overly pompous, or prejudiced. Sure he's not impressed and has given Sam menial duties. But that's par for the course, and he's been helpful besides.

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Do you really think I don't know this? Jesus, man. I'm saying a show watcher won't put too much stock into this and won't think about it. Nor would they notice anything strange about the bridge scene.

The show doesn't have to handhold the audience through every plot point, the books don't, if the show did the episodes would be twice as long.

The whole i am the storm while just chilling on a bouncing slick rope bridge is pretty clear even if you have no idea about the family trees. Then there is that fact that before he attacks in episode 2 the sea is perfectly calm, the moment you see the Silence it turns to a thunderstorm.

[Frontenac]

Indeed.

Also, the Casterly Rock "guess" just makes no sense. Even Jaime said that the place has no value to them. Why just assume that Dany would then send her main infantry force there?

And no, there's no way they Unsullied were "spotted on the way there" and then the plans all made accordingly. The Casterly Rock/Highgarden plan was clearly all in place before that, there's no way they emptied all the supplies, pulled most of the men out, then organized and moved on Highgarden all on reaction.

Cersei did not guess Dany would attack Casterly Rock. She was informed, it's clear. And Tyrion knew that she knew. Because either Ellaria, Tyene, Yara or any other captured people on Dany's fleet would spill the beans. Or maybe Randyll Tarly said it. He may have been informed of the plan before he turned against Olenna. Olenna was to used the forces of the Reach to lay siege to King's Landing. Tarly was one of her main bannerman.