How can we change the mindset of an entire species?

[Independent voter]

How can we change the mindset of an entire species?

Beat the crap out of them and enslave them.

Reprogram their DNA.

[Deleted]

What about the huge population? There are lots of humans who think that they're different from each other.

Wouldn't that create a lot of friction in society? If nobody recognized each other as a member of their own same species?

Eh? We know we're all human but as I said bigotry is on the decrease

[Deleted]

Oppressive brainwashing?

The issue is you are fantasizing about what could theoretically be, without fully understanding what you are doing. Human behavior, psychology and instinct is complex beyond our reckoning. Sure you may have watched every episode of Star Trek but that doesn't mean you can will that society into existence.

The human nature is a lot like a tapestry. You may think "Oh it would be prettier if we removed this thread." but pull on a thread and see where it leads, you yank out other threads, you damage the whole tapestry.

Nature built us, why do you think you are more clever?

I agree with what you've said here. However I don't believe in oppressive brainwashing. I think we should adopt a different approach - Education.

The way most humans think today is a result of their education. It doesn't have to be specific to a school or a college. It could just be an experience you had growing up. It could also be what your friends said to you. That's all education for the mind in their own rights.

What if we could change the way we thought by changing the way we teach each other? Try other methods.

[Deleted]

Eh? We know we're all human but as I said bigotry is on the decrease

There are some social groups in the human race that believe that other humans are sub-human. Or not even human at all according to them.

Some of them are not even bigots. They have the honest notion that the various 'races' of the human species is actually what they call 'sub-species'.

How would you suggest tackling that kind of tough mindset when you have such a high population?

[Deleted]

There are some social groups in the human race that believe that other humans are sub-human. Or not even human at all according to them.

Some of them are not even bigots. They have the honest notion that the various 'races' of the human species is actually what they call 'sub-species'.

How would you suggest tackling that kind of tough mindset when you have such a high population?

Again what we're doing already is working... There's people are a minority and shunned from society

[Deleted]

A far better option is that nobody ever does anything bad. That's a fantasy, though. The nature of "evil" is limited resources.

Resources can be food, shelter, power, spouse(s), etc. When two people are attracted to the same person, there is no way to "fix" that situation where both are happy.

Even if we had infinite food, you can't create new space. Someone will always have that beach house that you want. You can't both have the same thing(s).

It is not possible to create a magical fairy tale world where everyone is happy and people still have free will.

I believe it's possible.

We will advance our technology so we can colonize other planets. Other galaxies. Then possibly other universes. After that? Possibly other dimensions if such a concept can be understood by us.

There is always a way for us to work together and be happy at the same time. We just need a good enough of an incentive to 'stimulate' the caveman part of our brains so we get working.

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Again what we're doing already is working... There's people are a minority and shunned from society

How is it working? You have millions of humans starving, being tortured, raped, murdered and treated like germs. There is war in many regions around the world.

People have fights over simple disagreements in bars. Over different clothing. Over gestures made.

Where are you getting the notion that what we're already doing is working? It seems to me that it's all been very counterproductive. What we are doing is trying to combat this situation by using the same exact elements that created the situation in the first place.

[Cæli]

... either it failed or we radically overestimate the power of social conditioning.

social conditioning is bad I believe and the concept should be taught to the child at a latter age but the thing itself has no place in a decent education anyway, at least that's my opinion after reading wikipedia

[vbnm247]

The way you're willing to dish out punishment so quickly is quite disturbing. Do you not want to help these people? Their minds have been damaged by their past experiences that led them to do what they're doing right now. To hate them and to hurt them even further only promotes more suffering for us all.

They way I am willing for criminals to be punished is no where near as disturbing as the crimes they commit.

I suggest you watch the movie 'K- Pax'. It's a very good movie about an alien from an advanced species called Prot (Pronounced prote). During his time in a mental hospital facility he shows the humans there just how simple life is. To forgo revenge and hatred. To stop fighting each other and to love each other instead. It may sound like 'hippie bullcrap' to you but it really helped to change my perspective on life.

And what happens when said criminals take advantage of your proposals so they can commit more crime? You are aware that many criminals take advantage of the laws that protect them right? Did you even check the link I gave you which showed sexual offenders reoffending after taking courses which was meant to stop them offending? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40460637

Maybe if you learn from the main character in the movie you can start to open your mind up a little bit and see that not everything is in black and white. I do understand that your intentions have good heart to them. But the methods to achieve them isn't a step in the right direction. We should stop adopting the "eye for an eye" policy that we currently do on this planet if we are ever to advance as a species.

My mind is wide fucking open. It is why I do my best to live within the rules that society requires to function. Yet you have this dangerous fucking notion that a criminal MUST be mentally unwell and therefore is not accountable for their actions.

They would have a field day with people like you and would take advantage of your soft touch.

[Powerogue]

It's extremely difficult to tell whether someone can be re-integrated into society safely. I still feel like we should try a lot harder to do so, with us making it so hard for them to get jobs out of prison only creating a vicious cycle, but when it comes to hardened criminals who might immediately go out and rape/murder again as soon as they get out (as some do) I'm not sure there is a right answer that both gives them a fair second chance at life in society and protects society from them.

[Theodarzna]

I agree with what you've said here. However I don't believe in oppressive brainwashing. I think we should adopt a different approach - Education.

The way most humans think today is a result of their education. It doesn't have to be specific to a school or a college. It could just be an experience you had growing up. It could also be what your friends said to you. That's all education for the mind in their own rights.

What if we could change the way we thought by changing the way we teach each other? Try other methods.

Education won't change biology. You are dealing with instincts, proclivities and wiring that developed in the crucible of millions upon millions of years of trial and error. Making the kids recite Gene Roddenberry, or really REALLY driving in Karl Marx cannot undo what we are. Education can only change so much, in my opinion, very little compared to the sum total of us that is no more than an occasionally self aware animal.

Methods will only be as effective as nature allows it to be.

I see man as a part of nature, one part of the greater tree of life, one branch of the tree of life. We are as messy, violent, dirty, and wonderful as the others. We form groups, we will always form groups, we seek retribution for wrongs, we seek justice and redress of grievance. I see no reason to try to possibly harm mankind to change what is in my view not even broken.

[Vicivia]

The easiest answer is actually the best in this case: education. REAL education. As seen in this thread, the VAST majority of people are still attached to our primitive and primal way of dealing with criminal social outliers, JUSTICE... PUNISHMENT... VENGEANCE... Even the proof of education being the answer can be seen, most of those opposed to more "light-handed" methods of remediation don't have any proof that harsher sentencing works better, it's anecdotal and emotional, "THEY MUST PAY FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE".

As studies over the years reveal more and more the motivators of crime, in particular violent crime, they begin to paint a picture tying crime and criminals to mental illness and desperate circumstances. The proof of this at work is no more apparent than when comparing the US prison system to that of most other developed nations. We have some of the highest rates of recidivism and incarceration in the world, even disregarding our drug laws. Yet we also have one of the harshest prison systems of any first world country, alongside some of the worst social programs and a stigma against mental illness that would be almost right at home 200 years ago. The majority of people don't understand it, and the vast majority of those don't want to, but changing it starts with education.

[Deleted]

Who says those opinions aren't founded in science and research though?

To be fair there is a severe lack of research in certain fields, because they're considered social taboos. A lot of this relates to the influence of nature over nurture over the behavior of humans, and or how it affects health and well being. And even when there is research done it tends to be avoided by the media.

I completely agree. Social taboos are severely limiting potential scientific progress. But this, I don't believe is actually a social taboo but more of a confusion by people.

People believe that kind of research taking place is a confirmation of discrimination and bigotry. Rather than an attempt to better understand our species biologically and psychologically.

People with the brown/black skin color have this color to help them combat the intense solar heat that bear down on zones with arid climates. People with the white skin color have been granted better quantities of body hair to help combat against colder conditions and to assist in conserving calories because they were often living in mountainous areas. Where they would be deprived of food for days.

That's the kind of research we need to delve into. But the kind of research that exists only for the purpose in assisting people who are looking to confirm their bias isn't a step in the right direction.

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But I don't want to live on another planet, in another galaxy, or in another dimension. I want to live in a house that is exactly where your house is, and I want the woman you love to be my wife. I only have one life to live, and I want it to meet my expectations without having to sacrifice. So, I have to kill you. There is no other solution.

The person with the biggest stick gets to be happy.

Modern technology will allow us to create an exact clone of the woman I love for you to make your wife. It will allow us to grant you multiple lives to live. Your expectations will be met as our technology progresses. We will eventually possess the means to create planets similar to the one we live on as well. The future humans will be able to have things the way they want to.

So why would there even be a need for a big stick in the first place? How about we go about at helping our future generations to achieve this goal then there's no need for the "us vs them" mentality?

[haniburr]

Only way to get every human to change their mind about something or be united (more so than we are) is to have something HUGE happen,(tipping point of global warming, epidemic, World threatening asteroid, Aliens.. etc.) it has to be something that has an effect on all of us within a relatively short amount of time to snap us out of "I'm a proud "insert country" and everyone else can go away" and move to the "HUMANITY EFFIN ROCKS!"

[Narwal]

You make a giant assumption that nature (whatever that divinity is) intends for all living beings to get a long. I don't believe it's about getting a long, it's about co-existing, and co-existing does not mean we are nice to each other. Survival of the fittest, whether that be physical or mental prowess are what moves the needle of evolution. A balanced ecosystem, is not one where all beings hug each other, it's where enough are dying that others may live. You believe all humans are born equal, that each can be kind, loving, productive citizens if just treated for whatever illness they have mentally. I don't care how advanced you think our mental healthcare is, it is far from making us all into outstanding citizens. At best it can tone down a symptom, but still we have no ability to fix the real flaw in the design (dna/genetics).

You may think that based on my tone here, I'm heartless and don't understand how mental illness plays into many of the evils of today. You'd be dead wrong. I completely understand that in theory, everyone could be fixed if we had the know-how and science behind us to fix certain things in peoples physical make-up. The problem is, we're no where close to being able to do that. We see today our attempts to make mentally unstable people apart of society with medications. We put many people to work whose job it is to solely make sure those people stay on their medications, but still we have situations where people miss that medication... it's that mistake that is sometimes dangerous and even deadly. My sister-in-law is a murder victim of just such an occassion. I can tell you that it's far too quick and easy for a life taking mistake like this to happen with the way we handle the mentally ill today.

[Lokryn]

Anonymity is usually what allows people to shitpost. Most people would not say the things they post in public. It's just the nature of the internet. Lack of empathy is definitely a problem in our society.

While I agree with you that a lot of criminals have mental illness, this is not always the case. Even if they do have mental illness, it doesn't give them a pass because many of them understand the difference between right and wrong. Though, I do agree that we need to devote more resources toward mental illness care.

I think you're looking at society too simply. As they say, the devil's in the details. Each case must be looked at individually, blanket solutions just don't work.

You said, "Many people want to torture, murder and castrate pedophiles, rapists and murderers. They are so quick to deal out judgement and punishment. The amount of anger and hatred they seethe with is disturbing to me. It makes you no better than the person who performed those deeds." I agree with you here. People who make these statements are being extreme. But it looks to me that you're taking the extreme to the opposite end by saying statements like "I don't think we should have prisons anymore.", "I don't believe in 'good' or 'evil'." etc. It's better to take a piecemeal or case by case approach then thinking one solution fits all. Laws must be enforced and justice for crime must be served in a humane but fair way for the victims.

Just my 2 cents.

[Deleted]

This is your issue. You've bought into the post-modern bullshit of ideals where all morality is relative, all values are equal, and nothing can be truly judged. You're a spineless, moral coward. You have no center, no defining attributes, and you just kind of sway whichever the way the wind blows. It's sad, really, but I think the more Western society devolves the more common this will be.

You are very aggressive. You seem to have a fierce perception of the reality around you. You seem not to be able to let go of your upbringing, your ideals and traditions that you've been raised with. Which has led you here to call me a 'spineless, moral coward' for wanting everybody to be happy. You don't agree with my opinions and ideas. That's perfectly okay.

I have multiple defining attributes that have no basis on morality. I have amazing knowledge, I am intelligent, I love learning about the universe. I love romance, I love science, I love nature and how it's been designed.

I enjoy doing things to help the future generations of the human race. Instead of doing things that will hold back the future generations. I like to be selfless and more open minded. This is not about us.

This is about 'them'.

I hope you settle down and ease into a less hostile attitude of "us vs them". Hopefully you'll see that the universe is very simple. The reason why things seem so complicated is because we've done this to ourselves through overthinking everything. Instead, we could just take a step back and see the bigger picture.

Why not help everyone? Everybody has problems. Everybody needs help. The rapist is mentally ill, if he did not have the mental illness that made him rape a person then he probably would be very similar to you! The murderer who stabbed that woman 66 times in the head and stomped on it was her son and he did it because she molested and raped him for 15 years while torturing him with cigarette burns and gaslighting him. Was he wrong to kill her? Yes, he could've went about it in a different way and talked to her. But since he couldn't even produce the conscious thought of talking it out and went straight for the kill, his mind was obviously very fragile and was most likely the result of a mental illness.

[vbnm247]

The easiest answer is actually the best in this case: education. REAL education. As seen in this thread, the VAST majority of people are still attached to our primitive and primal way of dealing with criminal social outliers, JUSTICE... PUNISHMENT... VENGEANCE... Even the proof of education being the answer can be seen, most of those opposed to more "light-handed" methods of remediation don't have any proof that harsher sentencing works better, it's anecdotal and emotional, "THEY MUST PAY FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE".

So if there is no punishment or justice why should people play by the rules when those that dont, reap the benefits of taking and doing what they want? Not all criminals have a mental illness, the vast majority of them are intelligent, calculating and know exactly what they are doing.

So again, why should I work 9-5, following the rules when criminals get to do what they want without any sort of accountability? Society would tear itself apart.

[truckboattruck]

the moral of the threat "i dont like facts, cant we all just ignore them and believe in happy ideological things?"
no we can't

[Toogoodman]

Do you believe this is a good enough justification in response to the discrimination, hatred and anger stemmed from having an individualistic society?

Just curious!

There is absolutely no way to "stop people from feeling a certain way". Subjects like this creep very close to ideas like Nazism (in all seriousness), where they decided to make a culture, pure of the "taints" of the rest of the world, and wanted to bring their "perfect idealism" to everyone else (by destroying them). Because in the end, a subject like this would find that some people just don't fit the mold you want them too, and that they must be ousted by society, but they shouldn't be allowed to live, because they'll hurt our world were trying to protect. This type of brain wash mentality is what creates shit like that.

People are different, the world is huge and different people think differently, thats just life. Its the best to life as well, because the world is so diverse, and i think you should embrace that, not want to destroy it.

[onesBronson]

Heck if I know, but when and if you do figure it out, gimmie a call. I'm trying to win an argument against a guy at work about this philosophy.