Nissan dispute could go down as most vicious anti-union crusade in decades

[Nitros14]

It's true that things were much worse for workers in the industrial revolution.

How'd they get better? Well, unions and government. It certainly for the most part wasn't corporations willingly paying their workers more or willingly making their working conditions better.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Isn't it funny how the people who are actively working against workers being paid more and being given better working conditions were the same people who only months ago said that Trump was for the common man and Hillary represented the coastal elite?

Yeah. I mean, I called it. And we all know that their "concern" for the common man was merely political dog whistles. But it's always funny to watch hypocrisy in action.

[frogger237]

I am still waiting for the time the USA ends up like Venezuela/Cuba/Nk/USSR.

That already happened during the great depression.

[Elegiac]

Lolwut? Why would I work with people I don't support?

Oh, I forgot the ALP was Diet Liberal these days.

Or whatever ratbag third party you vote for.

[Super Kami Dende]

Oh, I forgot the ALP was Diet Liberal these days.

Or whatever ratbag third party you vote for.

Ahahaha, So to you "Liberal is bad! but so is ALP! and so are everyone else!" Who would you count as a "good" party hmm? Or are you just one of those people who has to wait til people say who they follow so you can go "WELL I FOLLOW THE OPPOSITE!"

[Elegiac]

Ahahaha, So to you "Liberal is bad! but so is ALP! and so are everyone else!" Who would you count as a "good" party hmm? Or are you just one of those people who has to wait til people say who they follow so you can go "WELL I FOLLOW THE OPPOSITE!"

To be entirely honest, the fallout from the departure of the Keating government had very severe effects by allowing Howard and his bum chums to run roughshod over the scope of political discussion. The ALP has essentially become Liberal-lite, and most of the third parties haven't been worth their weight in pig shit ever since the Democrats collapsed.

When the ALP stops running on a platform of 'hey, at least we aren't the Coalition' maybe they will be worthwhile again.

[Super Kami Dende]

To be entirely honest, the fallout from the departure of the Keating government had very severe effects by allowing Howard and his bum chums to run roughshod over the scope of political discussion. The ALP has essentially become Liberal-lite, and most of the third parties haven't been worth their weight in pig shit ever since the Democrats collapsed.

When the ALP stops running on a platform of 'hey, at least we aren't the Coalition' maybe they will be worthwhile again.

That I can entirely agree with.

[Zeta333]

Corporate 'murka has done an incredibly effective job at demonizing the idea of unions. People that buy into this shit forget that unions are why there are so many employment rules in place in the first place.

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That's right! Facts are dumb!

it may be a fact but its meaningless.

[kasuke06]

That is the claim, if they ask more than the market can bear making it unprofitable to make the product that is a given.

That does not mean the workers should not have the right to try to maximise their price or that there is another way than unions to do so. [Efficiently for factory workers..]

And they're voting on it. So they may decide to stick with actually being employed over trying to get blood from a stone.

[Kellhound]

They are demanding their capitalist right to maximise the sale price of their product

Are you anti capitalism?

Technically, they are trying to force an artificial increase in the price of their product.

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Wages are a condition for labor.

Wages are a compensation for labor. One that was already agreed upon by the workers when they hired on. Now if the only thing they were trying to do was get the company to meet OSHA safety standards (and OSHA refused to step in) then they would have an argument.

[hakujinbakasama]

2 people with high school degrees or geds, working full time at the plant, make more combined than the median income of Canton. Not sure what the problem is here.

[Independent voter]

Ms. Barber said she made about $26 an hour, roughly twice what she made in her previous job driving a forklift at a storage company, adjusting for inflation.

Many people had been working at McDonald’s making $7 an hour, she said, “and now this is the best thing that ever happened to them.”

It's Mississippi, there's few job opportunities in Mississippi. It's working class jobs, jobs that are rapidly going away.

I wouldn't want to mess an opportunity like the Nissan plant up. I wouldn't want to scare other manufacturers who were considering building plants in Mississippi away. I'd vote "no union".

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/b...ssissippi.html

[Deleted]

You claimed that inequlity is a problem that will destroy capitalism so pointing out that it has been worse is obvious thing to do.

yeah, it has been pretty bad in the past, and what reined in it? not capitalism that's for sure. the plebs revolting against the elite has happened dozens of times in history, on scales ranging from companies to entire countries. there is no reason to assume it won't or can't happen again in the future.

[OnlineSamantha]

Wages are a compensation for labor. One that was already agreed upon by the workers when they hired on. Now if the only thing they were trying to do was get the company to meet OSHA safety standards (and OSHA refused to step in) then they would have an argument.

But are they not allowed to negotiate further if that's what they want? Surely the wages can't be assumed to be stagnant for however long you are working there, right?

I fully support their right to seek to unionize, but I also support Nissan's right to then turn them down or fire them all if they choose. Unions are (ideally) just a form of collective bargaining, a way of making the conversation between Nissan and its workers equal. I don't think it will work, especially since it seems like (from what others have posted in this thread) they are decently compensated for their work already, given their circumstances at least.

[Deleted]

No doubt they will close that location asap if possible.

Globalisation, trade deals and soft-borders make it very easy to move your business/factories wherever you want.

[Kellhound]

But are they not allowed to negotiate further if that's what they want? Surely the wages can't be assumed to be stagnant for however long you are working there, right?

I fully support their right to seek to unionize, but I also support Nissan's right to then turn them down or fire them all if they choose. Unions are (ideally) just a form of collective bargaining, a way of making the conversation between Nissan and its workers equal. I don't think it will work, especially since it seems like (from what others have posted in this thread) they are decently compensated for their work already, given their circumstances at least.

Any employee can request a raise, I have in the past.

[Deleted]

Well if they do the vote and Nissan closes the plant, we can all rest assured that Trump will come in and do massive tariffs and taxes on Nissan to make sure that America comes first, right?

[McFuu]

To be entirely honest, the fallout from the departure of the Keating government had very severe effects by allowing Howard and his bum chums to run roughshod over the scope of political discussion. The ALP has essentially become Liberal-lite, and most of the third parties haven't been worth their weight in pig shit ever since the Democrats collapsed.

When the ALP stops running on a platform of 'hey, at least we aren't the Coalition' maybe they will be worthwhile again.

I don't know what country you are from, but it sounds like Commands and Conquer Generals is your form of government.

[Logwyn]

what the fuck does that fact ever matter. Unless you support full on communism then that figure means jack shit. Just because they have the wealth does not mean they have to give you or anyone else any of it. So unless your ok with the government taking parts of what you own and giving it to people who have less then stop parroting such a stupid fact.

It kinda matters if only 5 people would get to a point where they have 75% or all the wealth. Unequal distribution of income was one of the causes of the Great Depression.

[Kellhound]

And with the votes in, Nissan worker, by an almost 2:1 margin, told the UAW to piss off.