There is no longer a desire to make Raid Finder a tourist mode.

[RoKPaNda]

Not really sure why we have people talking about moving on to other difficulties. That's not what LFR players do, that's not what LFR players are supposed to do. LFR IS their end-game. Whether you like it or not a fuckton of people cap out at LFR, and a bunch of people at Normal, and a bunch of people at Heroic, and then a very small percentage of players ever set foot into Mythic raids. The more casual the content the more people run it.

[Emerald Archer]

Who's retarded enough to do so?

Like seriously, I'm doing BGs quite regularly, people just do nothing while maintaining non-afk status.

That's not really the question, you said you can be afk in bgs and not get insta-booted, when in reality, you do.

But on topic of who's retarded enough to do so :P A lot of people. It still happens now, but when it first came out like that, people constantly did "/e has reported you for being AFK, type /afk to avoid being removed in 1minute" etc. It got a lot of people.

[Deleted]

well, raiding and even dungeons are a very poor method of storytelling anyway.

they need to have a solo mode for all of these raids and dungeons that pairs you with npcs(your order hall champions) to complete the dungeons and raids, with much more cinematic storytelling within.

MMO = Multiplayer.

Hope this never happens.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

This won't last, people need to move on to do Normal difficulty.

^this all day.

[ComputerNerd]

It's hard to believe some people are that bad. I'd say it's more along the lines of not caring and people cbf. Cause they know eventually they will progress on to the next boss whether they try or not. Avatar could possibly be an outlier though. I've been in a few so far and I am 99% certain that if avatar does die it's not the stacking determination buff, but people realising they can't herp derp this boss till it dies.

Don't look at people as bad, but look at WHY.
What experience are players actually getting in most dungeons now, when they are steamrolled by those with experience and/or heirlooms.
Rush, Rush, Rush for your own benefit without giving a damn about how that might not be so good for everyone in your party.

And if the standards of participants aren't up to yours, go somewhere else.

[Adramalech]

I'm still butthurt that we lost more tier set and weapon recolors in WoD because they decided the gear had to be shitty not just in stats and ilvl, but also in how it looked.

[Nnyco]

ye fuck that, last thing i wanna do again is mist's lfr's wiping because some tard is afk

[derpkitteh]

MMO = Multiplayer.

Hope this never happens.

you have that, in the normal dungeons.

it's also an RPG which is meant to tell a story. it's stupid to think that just because you can play with others, means you should always have to. it's an idiotic idea that needs to die.

[Aflakk47]

LFR is only 'tourist mode' for the 15 people who que and have 0 idea on how to play the game.

[Nynax]

I really don't get the idea behind any level of difficulty in LFR. The items are crap, it's a menu click quickplay option, it's meant to be the easiest difficulty by far - why dwell on the fact that it's easy? Casual players can go for normal/HC runs anytime they want, LFR is perfect for this 20 min brainless content to relax.

I'm all for BC/WotLK style raiding again. But I feel like i should point out that it's not quite that easy. In today's environment, unless you take the time to join a guild and dedicate to scheduled raid times, It's easy to spend an entire night going nowhere. I pugged normal ToS the 2nd week it was out, took FIVE different groups to kill 4 bosses. Because even though it was brand new, the entire group disbanded the first wipe.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Was hoping the last three words there didn't exist. No matter how easy or hard lfr is still not raiding because it does not require he social interactions that progression raiding like group forming, loot distribution, arriving on time, etc does and rewards failure.

[ls-]

That's not really the question, you said you can be afk in bgs and not get insta-booted, when in reality, you do.

But on topic of who's retarded enough to do so :P A lot of people. It still happens now, but when it first came out like that, people constantly did "/e has reported you for being AFK, type /afk to avoid being removed in 1minute" etc. It got a lot of people.

LMAO!

Damn, I haven't seen anyone being auto-kicked for afking since forever...

I'll edit my comment to include /afk detail

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Not really sure why we have people talking about moving on to other difficulties. That's not what LFR players do, that's not what LFR players are supposed to do. LFR IS their end-game. Whether you like it or not a fuckton of people cap out at LFR, and a bunch of people at Normal, and a bunch of people at Heroic, and then a very small percentage of players ever set foot into Mythic raids. The more casual the content the more people run it.

Lfr should not be the cap though. Anyone can do normal. Make it even easier if you need, but people need to do it to see how real raiding works and how rewarding it can be socially.

[ls-]

Lfr should not be the cap though. Anyone can do normal. Make it even easier if you need, but people need to do it to see how real raiding works and how rewarding it can be socially.

Making normal easier won't help.

They can make N even easier than LFR, but as long as other people decide who gets or doesn't get into the raid, many people won't move to another difficulty ever.

[Vargas]

Other idea : LFR tourist mode is not a problem, as long as it stays a tourist mode.
No legendaries, no tier sets. Pure story and tourism and would not feel mandatory to some high end raiders who want to go in every optimization path.

If high-end raiders lack impulse control and feel the need to HAVE to run LFR that's their problem, not everyone elses.


As for harder LFR, I'm fine with that. Hell I was fine with Dragon Soul LFR difficulty; the only bosses that were hard IMO was the one on the airship and Madness of Deathwing, and even then it was usually cleared after a few wipes. So yeah, make it harder just as long as the mechanics are clearly defined and communicated to the player.

[RoKPaNda]

Lfr should not be the cap though. Anyone can do normal. Make it even easier if you need, but people need to do it to see how real raiding works and how rewarding it can be socially.

In what way is it rewarding socially? It's the exact same as LFR, you pug it and you never see the people again or talk to them, just faceroll some easy content. I mean at this point the only difference between normal and LFR is that you can't queue for normal. Might as well merge the two and put it in the queue. There's literally zero social aspect to Normal, and barely if any to Heroic.

[Osmeric]

Don't think this philosophy is gonna last. Determination 10 runs were never fun to anyone.

There's this seductive bad game design idea that reward has to be consistent with difficulty. I think they tried to apply that to PvP this expansion, with disastrous result.

- - - Updated - - -

Some people dwell on it because, for some reason, they think that the difficulty of a video game actually means something, actually has some relevance in life. "Yeah well I killed Heroic Lich King! I am a more important and special person than u scrubs in LFR!"

One day its going to occur to some of these people just how much of their lives have been wasted on these 'causes' - and that's going to be a depressing moment for a lot of folks.

To be fair, MMO design revolves around maintaining the illusion that what you are doing is a good way to spend the finite and rapidly depleting hours of your life.

[Eleccybubb]

Other idea : LFR tourist mode is not a problem, as long as it stays a tourist mode.
No legendaries, no tier sets. Pure story and tourism and would not feel mandatory to some high end raiders who want to go in every optimization path.

They tried that with Warlords and it didn't go well.

LFR having tier sets is fine. Titanforging and Legendaries are what make some people believe that it is "mandatory".

[Osmeric]

Good. It should have stayed that way after MoP anyway. MoP had the right balance of difficulty.

LFR participation fell off dramatically in SoO, especially on Garrosh. I think the earlier MoP LFR worked only because what are now normal mode raiders were forced down into it, as N then was too hard for them.

If they try to make Normal harder again it's going to be disastrous.

[Eleccybubb]

LFR participation fell off dramatically in SoO, especially on Garrosh. I think the earlier MoP LFR worked only because what are now normal mode raiders were forced down into it, as N then was too hard for them.

If they try to make Normal harder again it's going to be disastrous.

Doubt they will. I just imagine LFR will be scaled up a bit more.

I mean when people can afk and shit can get done that isn't a really good raid model.