Bosnia and "arabs".

[Zarc]

As someone who lives in Sarajevo, here are the few things:

1. Stop using term "bosnians". There are no ethnic bosnians. Muslim population calls themselves "Bosniaks". More than 50% of people are Bosniaks, but theyre majority in only about 23% of the country (area-wise)

Remember that episode of the Big Bang Theory when Sheldon tells Raj about about Indian culture? On that note..

Why shouldn't people use the term Bosnians? And what's with the quotation marks? Maybe I'm overlooking some context from this thread that you were responding to, but Bosnian is the proper name to refer to somebody from Bosnia.

Bosnian is not an ethnicity, true, but it is a nationality. More than 50% of Bosnians are ethnic Bosniaks, true, and most of the rest are ethnic Serbs and Croats.

[Wiyld]

Is no one going to point out that the OP's starting point is still referring to anyone who isn't white as 'colored'?


I mean...when that is his starting point...where is the thread going to go but downhill....fast....

[Toogoodman]

I just came back from a holiday in Bosnia. Lovely country, lovely people, lovely nature. A country rich with history. A tolerable country where muslims, orthodox, jews and catholics live together in peace. My kind of country. Meat dishes, oh to die for. Theres just one thing: they seem to hate arabs. We've only been there for 7 days, so it could be anecdotical, but we traveled all across the land (mostar, sarajevo, tuzla, blagaj, etc.) and everywhere they were complaining about "the arabs".

Apparantly "the arabs" come on holidays and claim everything chasing locals away, being obnoxious and obteus to other guests etc. I recall while rafting seeing an arab couple not doing anything but sitting in the rafting boat with their child while two workers were paddling the 50 kilometers. From here it looks like they were just really spoiled and cocky.

However it got me thinking: how can it be that in a country where they figured out a way to have all religions live together, the majority still dislikes arabs? Is it racism? Or does the arab population (i think the bosnians refer to everyone from the middle east and northern africa with the term arab) have something about their culture and behavings that lead other people to disliking them even in a tolerant country like bosnia?

Dude, everyone fucking hates tourists in their country, you're reading too deep into this. Not a "heh i dislike tourists", like actually vehement hate for tourists because they visit, destroy where ever are "because fuck it" and leave. See it all the time in Boston and NYC.

[Zarc]

Okay. I am Serbian. Good luck with belief that "ethnic cleansing" was done by one side only. I know that media does its job well with brain washing. Also that war during 90's, I am 100% convinced that it was caused by U.S because they did not want another big "commie" country to prevail. There is even movie about that, too bad I can't recall it's name.

That is ridiculous.

1) He didn't say it was one side only. He said there was widespread ethnic cleansing of the Muslim population in Bosnia by the Serbs, mostly Christian orthodox. Nothing in that sentence is inaccurate.

Widespread ethnic cleansing accompanied the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina (1992–95), as large numbers of Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks) and Bosnian Croats were forced to flee their homes and were expelled by Bosnian Serbs;[1] and some Bosnian Croats also carried out similar campaign against Bosniaks and Serbs. Also, Bosnian Muslims conducted similar acts against Croats, especially in Central Bosnia.[2] However, the scale of crimes carried out by Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Muslims were significantly smaller than those by Bosnian Serbs.

2) I see what you did there with the quotation marks around ethnic cleansing. Not cool.

3) Nobody cares about your conspiracy theorist convictions. Why deny history?

[Deleted]

I just came back from a holiday in Bosnia. Lovely country, lovely people, lovely nature. A country rich with history. A tolerable country where muslims, orthodox, jews and catholics live together in peace. My kind of country. Meat dishes, oh to die for. Theres just one thing: they seem to hate arabs. We've only been there for 7 days, so it could be anecdotical, but we traveled all across the land (mostar, sarajevo, tuzla, blagaj, etc.) and everywhere they were complaining about "the arabs".

Apparantly "the arabs" come on holidays and claim everything chasing locals away, being obnoxious and obteus to other guests etc. I recall while rafting seeing an arab couple not doing anything but sitting in the rafting boat with their child while two workers were paddling the 50 kilometers. From here it looks like they were just really spoiled and cocky.

However it got me thinking: how can it be that in a country where they figured out a way to have all religions live together, the majority still dislikes arabs? Is it racism? Or does the arab population (i think the bosnians refer to everyone from the middle east and northern africa with the term arab) have something about their culture and behavings that lead other people to disliking them even in a tolerant country like bosnia?

Are you deliberately typing like Trump

[AeneasBK]

It must be kinda interesting looking at the world through such a strange lens

[Deleted]

Okay. I am Serbian. Good luck with belief that "ethnic cleansing" was done by one side only. I know that media does its job well with brain washing. Also that war during 90's, I am 100% convinced that it was caused by U.S because they did not want another big "commie" country to prevail. There is even movie about that, too bad I can't recall it's name.

I did not say that. Read the fucking thread. I mentioned Bosnian atrocities specifically.

There were more Serbian atrocities for whatever reason. This does not excuse any other faction from doing the same. Any one participating in human rights violations should be drowned in horseshit. Are we clear?

[burek]

Remember that episode of the Big Bang Theory when Sheldon tells Raj about about Indian culture? On that note..

Why shouldn't people use the term Bosnians? And what's with the quotation marks? Maybe I'm overlooking some context from this thread that you were responding to, but Bosnian is the proper name to refer to somebody from Bosnia.

Bosnian is not an ethnicity, true, but it is a nationality. More than 50% of Bosnians are ethnic Bosniaks, true, and most of the rest are ethnic Serbs and Croats.

Bosnia is not a proper nation, it is a failed state/union forced upon its citizens against their will. People identify themselves by their ethnicity, as they should, and not by their 'nationality'

[Wikiy]

He navigated through some very difficult waters and kept Yugoslavia away from the Soviet block would probably be why. Not trying to claim that he was great or anything just that he was no where near as bad as many of the likely alternatives. For being a post WW2 communist country, Yugoslavia was about as good as it gets.

Yeah nor am I saying he was as bad as Stalin or something. The world isn't black and white. What I am saying is that the support he had back when he was in power doesn't reflect how respected he is today. People today know much more about what actually went on, and thus most have a neutral view of him.

[Zarc]

Bosnia is not a proper nation.

This is just objectively false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

People identify themselves by their ethnicity, as they should, and not by their 'nationality'

Some people do, some people don't. Identifying yourself by ethnicity and nationality is not mutually exclusive. Not to mention the many other identities one may identify with, such as religious affiliation. I would reckon almost all people identify themselves by at least one nationality, given that the vast majority of people are not stateless. I also reckon that a lot of people identify with at least one ethnicity as well. As to how you think people should identify, well, that's like your opinion man.

[Kuntantee]

Who likes Arabs is the real question.

[Radaney]

Yeh one of my dads friends served is Bosnia, I don't think he see's the tolerant side to the country.

[Deleted]

However it got me thinking: how can it be that in a country where they figured out a way to have all religions live together, the majority still dislikes arabs? Is it racism? Or does the arab population (i think the bosnians refer to everyone from the middle east and northern africa with the term arab) have something about their culture and behavings that lead other people to disliking them even in a tolerant country like bosnia?

A fellow resident of Bosnia and Herzegovina here. Just because all religions here live together doesn't mean "we" figured it out. It it just a result of history. If you were remotely aware of politics here, you'd know that all three major ethnic groups (therefore religion groups) would prefer to live in ethnically and religiously pure areas.

However, there is dislike or Arabs from all groups, even Bosnian muslims. Reason for that is because they bring slightly more conservative Islam with them, something that is not that much present within muslim population that was born and raised here.

Also, Bosnia and Herzegovina is far from a tolerant country.

Because they aren't white?

Residents of Bosnia and Herzegovina (including muslim population) are part of white race.

Is this some kind of joke?

There was widespread ethnic cleansing of the Muslim population in Bosnia by the Serbs, mostly Christian orthodox. The only reason there wasn't total genocide was an intervention by the United Nations.

Not really. United Nations were "protectors" of Srebrenica and genocide still happened. It's a bit more complicated than United Nations coming and putting and end to a war.

[burek]

This is just objectively false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina



Some people do, some people don't. Identifying yourself by ethnicity and nationality is not mutually exclusive. Not to mention the many other identities one may identify with, such as religious affiliation. I would reckon almost all people identify themselves by at least one nationality, given that the vast majority of people are not stateless. I also reckon that a lot of people identify with at least one ethnicity as well. As to how you think people should identify, well, that's like your opinion man.

That bullshit you write is also just your opinion, and obviously doesn't apply on the country at hand. Why did you leave out they key part of what i said? It is a state that shouldn't exist in its current form, created against the will of its citizens. Why are you ignoring that? And then you act surprised afterward that no one identifies himself with it

[Deleted]

Not really. United Nations were "protectors" of Srebrenica and genocide still happened. It's a bit more complicated than United Nations coming and putting and end to a war.

From what i understand NATO did 2 bombing runs and serbia gave up. However they waited 4 years for that.

[Deleted]

There were more Serbian atrocities for whatever reason. This does not excuse any other faction from doing the same. Any one participating in human rights violations should be drowned in horseshit. Are we clear?

There were more Serbian atrocities because they started the war and they were aggressors, while Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina were defending themselves and their territory. That doesn't mean the latter two didn't do any atrocities (they have). It just means by nature of things you'd expect those who attack your country to commit/engage in more war crimes than those who are defending.

And this is the most problematic part coming from the war. Rarely and side is willing to admit that they've done horrible things in the war, while they are easy to blame the other side for being a monster. This is most problematic in Serbia because they lost the war.

Yeah nor am I saying he was as bad as Stalin or something. The world isn't black and white. What I am saying is that the support he had back when he was in power doesn't reflect how respected he is today. People today know much more about what actually went on, and thus most have a neutral view of him.

It also depends on to which ethnic/national group you belong to. Serbians have more positive opinion of him, while Bosnian Muslims and Croatians tend to have more negative than positive view of him.

[Deleted]

Is no one going to point out that the OP's starting point is still referring to anyone who isn't white as 'colored'?


I mean...when that is his starting point...where is the thread going to go but downhill....fast....

Is that relevant to the discussion?

[Deleted]

That bullshit you write is also just your opinion, and obviously doesn't apply on the country at hand. Why did you leave out they key part of what i said? It is a state that shouldn't exist in its current form, created against the will of its citizens. Why are you ignoring that? And then you act surprised afterward that no one identifies himself with it

While it is true that almost no citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina view the said country as something I suppose Americans view USA, as their homeland, it heavily varies on ethnic/religious group you belong to. Bosnian Muslim are the ones who see Bosnia and Herzegovina as their homeland more than any other group, with Croatians following and Serbians expressing separatist politics. Most Croatians and Serbians view Croatia and Serbia as their homeland and their country rather than Bosnia and Herzegovina.

From what i understand NATO did 2 bombing runs and Serbia gave up. However they waited 4 years for that.

Well, NATO was involved in more than just two bombings, but most of their involvement came late in the war because at first nobody wanted to see Yugoslavia falling apart.

[Deleted]

Odd seeing how Serbs are still the second biggest ethnic group in the area (about a third of the entire population)..... You sure learned a lot from that tour guide huh.

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He navigated through some very difficult waters and kept Yugoslavia away from the Soviet block would probably be why. Not trying to claim that he was great or anything just that he was no where near as bad as many of the likely alternatives. For being a post WW2 communist country, Yugoslavia was about as good as it gets.

They divided the country up in Kantons. South of Sarajevo (just over the mountain Trebevic) alot of serbs still live. However the outcome of the war was the land being divided in new countries. Croatia for example and serbia.

[Wikiy]

They divided the country up in Kantons. South of Sarajevo (just over the mountain Trebevic) alot of serbs still live. However the outcome of the war was the land being divided in new countries. Croatia for example and serbia.

New independent states. Croatia and Serbia have existed as countries about 6 times as long as America.