WoW is becoming more Pay To Win than ever with the next patch.

[Darsithis]

It's textbook P2W, however I don't see anyone paying that much for it.

How is it "textbook P2W"?

Blizzard is not selling gear directly. There is no way to just go out and buy a full set of mythic, TF, tier gear from Blizzard. Sure, you can purchase gold, something that has been around since the game started, but in the end, that's not Blizzard and that's not P2W.

Pay-to-Win would be if Blizzard sold gear sets (possibly randomized) to players directly that allowed them to skip raiding completely.

[Arnoux]

All online multiplayer games are inherently to one degree or another pay to win.

If you have a lot of money and don't need to work, you can use all your time to advance your character, raid more often, level more alts, do more split runs, do more m+ etc. I have to work, so basically for me and 99.999% of WoW players its "go to work. come back home evening, play for a few hours". We will never catch up to those who can play more often.

Has been the case for years.

Also - if you have a lot of money, you win A LOT more than just WoW.

I have a lot of work to do as well and when I have a couple of hours to play when I get home I don't want others to get way stronger items just by spending cash. If that happens, I just don't feel the motivation to play the game, because why farm for it, when others just buys it?

[Lochton]

That isn't really pay-2-win, mate. If you call this simple thing Pay-2-win, then we've had it for YEARS without problems. Only lately it has become so because people either don't like to work for it, or they are salty because others can get it.

[Adoxe]

You don't know what pay to win means it seems like.

[papajohn4]

With the new patch incoming, WoW is becoming the most pay to win it has ever been.

According to WoWHead: "Players can upgrade crafted gear to ilvl 935 via Primal Obliterum."

Primal Obliterum will be craftable by using regular Obliterum and Primal Sargerite (new BoS). This new kind of BoS will be dropped in Argus, like the current BoS, eg: world quest, shoulder enchant and alchemy will able to make it as well.

So all that means, when 7.3 will drops, within a short time and with a fat bank account, people will able to upgrade most of their item slots to ilvl 935. Why is it problem? Because 7.3 won't bring new playable raid tier, we will still play on ToS. Currently the Mythic ToS drops 930 ilvl item (except last boss, 940). It means, people will just need to buy wow tokens, upgrade their characters and clear the mythic raid, before the next tier hits.

According to recent Legion patch history, there will be 77 days at least after 7.3 to 7.3.5, before the new raid tier happens.

You may think this upgrade will be costly, sure it will be. However there are several people who would drop 300 euros without a second thought. That is more than 3.3 million golds. These people will be able to clear the whole mythic ToS with their bought items. Or just be higher geared than some regular mythic raider who wipes 93 times on 4th boss. Just some facts. Method did world first Kil'jaeden mythic with 932 avg item lvl. This average is heavily inflated by that people had two 970ilvl legendaries. This means the actual avg epic item lvl is way lower. Don't forget that Method had cleared ToS before several hotfixes (nerfs).

Now you may say that this situation has happened before. Last time the max craftable item was 900ilvl (with 10 Obliterums). However the 900ilvl craftable item came the same time when the ToS opened. It meant that you could buy items with 900ilvl, but you could get way better if you did mythic raid (930ilvl).

With 7.3 we won't get new raid tier, and probably we will need to wait another 2.5 months to get a new tier. However the highest buyable item will be 935ilvl, while the most boss from mythic ToS will drop only 930ilvl.

Basically you will be able to buy the best ilvl gear with money. And these items will be craftable, which means the supply is basically endless. I don't remember anything like this has ever happened in WoW before.

I am sure I will get disagreement by a lot of people, but please think about it. Is this the direction we really want WoW to go? To throw hundreds of euros to the monitor and buy better gear than what drops in mythic raid?


Source:
Wowhead info about 7.3: http://www.wowhead.com/news=266726/p...ssions-preview
Method Kil'jaeden kill avg item lvl: https://raider.io/guilds/eu/tarren-mill/Method

Dont bother... blizzard knights can see a dolphin and say it is whale if blizzard say it is whale.. This is how wow makes money now... they stopped anouncing sub numbers long ago and now they just sell mounts/pets and now.. decent gear (indirectly).

[OniHouse]

i... i what?
since when was "winning the game" being ilvl 935 in most item slots?
yeah people can buy 935 ilvl gear, but people have been able to buy powerful crafted items, and powerful world drops since the second the servers were launched back in 2004
stop trying to pretend this is a new thing, and its "the end of the game" and is gunna effect anyone of value

People have not been able to buy crafted items 5 item levels above base mythic ilvl.

[Arnoux]

You don't know what pay to win means it seems like.

I know what it means. You have different definition of it and it is fine. However the case is if you put euros on the table you get way more ahead than the average casual player.

[Baelic]

"Pay-to-Win"

[Moozart]

I know what it means. You have different definition of it and it is fine. However the case is if you put euros on the table you get way more ahead than the average casual player.

most "average casual player" aren't playing this game to "win" anything to begin with...

[Baelic]

I know what it means. You have different definition of it and it is fine. However the case is if you put euros on the table you get way more ahead than the average casual player.

That is Pay-For-Convenience. By that logic Pokemon GO is Pay-to-Win because of Lucky Eggs, which can also be obtained without spending money, simply because you can buy them to level up faster.

And even -that- is a stretch for WoW. As buying Gold will only ever get you so much depending on the current market.

[Lochton]

Dont bother... blizzard knights can see a dolphin and say it is whale if blizzard say it is whale.. This is how wow makes money now... they stopped anouncing sub numbers long ago and now they just sell mounts/pets and now.. decent gear (indirectly).

Except, the gear part.

Don't bother, haters gonna hate and can see a burning house from a matchstick.

You buy gear, from the gold you got from another player, whom you traded gametime to, that you bought for gold.

Follow that? You know, the thing that has been done since forever, except Blizzard is now protecting you from scam by being the middleman.

But when hackers, scammers and normal players did it, it wasn't Pay-2-win? But when Blizzard helps you, it is pay-2-win?

Method one, old style:

Money -> Store -> Game card -> sell card on trade which is risky -> Gold.

Method two, new style:

Money -> Store -> Apply game time token within the game feature of the auction -> Gold.

Only difference is, that method two is safer (And sadly more expensive because they gotta earn something on the deal).

[Arnoux]

most "average casual player" aren't playing this game to "win" anything to begin with...

Well probably I am not like the average casual. I am casual, but I like to get stronger. However if others can just get better gear with spending money I will have less and less incentive to play for better gear and eventually quit.

[Jastall]

It's textbook P2W, however I don't see anyone paying that much for it.

No it's not. Pay to win would be if Blizzard started selling BiS raid gear and legendaries directly in the store, preferably if there were no WoW tokens involved.

This is buying 935 gear (which, while very good, is not the best nor enough to ''win'' at any relevant in-game activity), which you could do as far back as WoD with no issues, and it will most likely be time consuming to make and outrageously expensive. Considering that a 920 BoE sells for a couple hundred thousand usually, decking ourself out in 930-935 crafted gear will cost you hundreds of dollars in tokens. It won't help you if you suck, and anyone who is doing high-end PvE or PvP activities will be at or past these ilvls anyway.

Also, as people said by the time 7.3 hits and you actually see 935 crafted gear, the ToS race will be long over, and for Antorus 935 is barely above Normal raid gear.

[Katchii]

It's textbook P2W, however I don't see anyone paying that much for it.

No where do you actually ever directly trade real money for the items. You pay real money for a token that exchanges for in game gold that you then use on whatever you wish. What you decide to use it on is your business.

Yes it's somewhat of a technicality, but that does mean that the exchange is not directly pay-to win.

[Deleted]

And I mean who gives a shit you can probably already get gear that's higher than 935 if you're doing Mythic Tomb of Sargeras.

LoL, ain't nobody got time for that.

[Lochton]

I know what it means. You have different definition of it and it is fine. However the case is if you put euros on the table you get way more ahead than the average casual player.

Or, you know, if you put effort, you do the same. Or gold, you do the same. Or boosts, you do the same. And even if you put your lovely euro on the table, your gold would be that of another player whom purchased your token. Not generated out of the blue by Blizzard.

- - - Updated - - -

most "average casual player" aren't playing this game to "win" anything to begin with...

I wouldn't really call a casual to be in the gear race, no, I agree with you on that.

[Polarthief]

Last time was not the same as I have said in my first post. With 7.2.5 release, Blizzard introduced the ilvl 900 crafted gear. It was good for alt catchup, but people would be able to obtain 930 from mythic raid.

This time no raid will open. This 935 crafted gear should happen in 7.3.5 when new tier hits, not in 7.3.

As a mythic raider, nearly 930 iLvl myself, I give 0 shits about this.

If you're a special snowflake that gets angry at this, I feel for you. You shouldn't let shit like this get you so riled up.

[Emode]

What exactly are you winning? The Gearscore Cup?

[Moozart]

Well probably I am not like the average casual. I am casual, but I like to get stronger. However if others can just get better gear with spending money I will have less and less incentive to play for better gear and eventually quit.

This is not new though man, people keep saying it. You have been able to pay gold for gear for a while, I cant tell you how much gold me and my guys have made in wow selling gold runs. This goes all the way back to the days of the ZG bear mount when we were selling those for a ridiculous amount of gold. We run TONS of gold selling runs every week to people want to gear alts fast. Earning gold is not hard anymore, you can do enough in wow if you TRY, key word is TRY that you can buy those same items yourself. You will run in to VERY few people who invest into a full set of 935, more often than not you will see folks with a piece here or there. Id be willing to bet the you end up with 1-2% at most of the player base that buy whole sets. You seem to be more about whining than winning.

[Orangetai420]

I guess if "winning" means a high ilvl to you, then sure - you can argue that.

For me, it means downing difficult content and having fun. Gear is a tool to achieve those goals, not the goal itself. Spending real money for gold to buy gear is not fun for me, I wouldn't consider it winning. It would suck the life out of the game from my perspective.