WoW is becoming more Pay To Win than ever with the next patch.

[Arnoux]

Why should we blame blizzard for people stupidity ?

Because they let it happen, also incentives it. In the past Blizzard was banning several gold sellers and people who bought gold. Now they took over the gold sellers's position and started doing that what was against ToS previously, by getting a huge margin.

[Radaney]

That is also a problem. If you buy these runs with cash, you and Method gets banned. Suddenly if you give your cash to blizzard then buy these runs by gold, while Blizzard takes a huge margin, then it is suddenly 100% legit.

It's extremely rare to get banned, top guilds have done runs for real life money since the games inception. It's what keeps them playing after the race.

[Seefer]

Yes for me this is some kind of goal. For you might be not. However for a lot of people one big incentive is getting stronger.

It's a goal, it isn't "winning" it is just something you personally want to do, many people have a goal of climbing Mount Everest or surfing a certain beach doesn't mean they win anything for doing it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

As I said: Blizzard shit = Nutela!

What an highly intellectual argument to support your opinion.
Seems to me like you're one of those people considering his own shit to be "Nutella". Pathetic.

[Arnoux]

It's extremely rare to get banned, top guilds have done runs for real life money since the games inception. It's what keeps them playing after the race.

Several top guild streamers got banned because of it. These guilds even had to stop the mythic race because of it. You may do it in the shadows, but if you are vocal about it you will get banned. But if you sell these boosting services for gold, and Blizzard gets their huge margin, then it is not even bannable anymore.

[Queen of Hamsters]

You can literally just buy a boost for cheaper than 3.3million gold to be cleared through mythic ToS by Method.

That's not akin to winning the game in any shape or form. I think the people starting/agreeing with this thread are exactly the sort of player that would do just that and considering themselves to be "winners" though...

[Arnoux]

It's a goal, it isn't "winning" it is just something you personally want to do, many people have a goal of climbing Mount Everest or surfing a certain beach doesn't mean they win anything for doing it.

Then we rather call it Pay To Reach your goals thousand times faster, while others spending hours upon hours, you can get it with a single click.

- - - Updated - - -

I still don't understand why people support pay to win practices and even starts to argue about the definition of pay to win and keep saying you don't win anything.

You get ahead of other players by a few clicks if you open your credit card. Why a normal human is defending this policy? Even Blizzard was against it when they released WoW. Also even Blizzard stopped the Auction House in Diablo and revamped the whole game so it became from a pay to win grind fest to an actually normal game.

Or people who are defending are the ones who keeps buying WoW Tokens for cash? Then say that you waste your money on a game, because you don't want to play the game but buy the shortcuts. Then it is fine and no need to educate me anymore about the meaning of the term "Pay To Win".

[Torrasque]

The definition of Pay to Win must no longer include "winning" if it gets you gear that isn't even current raid ilvl.

[Daedius]

Considering current ToS Heroic gives 930 gear... I'd hardly call it "P2W" when 935 is "meh" come next patch gear.

It's a catch up system, nothing else... and one to stimulate the economy again with current mats stagnating now.

[ReVnX]

Considering current ToS Heroic gives 930 gear... I'd hardly call it "P2W" when 935 is "meh" come next patch gear.

It's a catch up system, nothing else...

ToS Heroic gives 915

Mythic gives 930

[Daedius]

ToS Heroic gives 915

Mythic gives 930

I stand corrected -- still, what's the ilvl of gear from content in 7.3 going to be? People said the same thing about Obliterum originally being "P2W" as well way back when.

[Ozyorkbourne]

Are you such a dumb dumb that you have that much of a disconnect that people who spend gold are essentially spending irl money? Legit fuck yourself.

Also, so what if there's no raid tier. All this means is that there will be a way for people who raid mythic to get 935 in gear slots they're unlucky with since the ilvl cap is 955. I've actually never seen anyone other than an alt in full obliterum gear either.

Besides, if you can't kill mythic bosses until you buy full 935 gear with obliterum, then don't worry, those people won't be killing KJ mythic... until the end of 7.3.5 perhaps. You link Method's average ilvl on their kill but if you're so bad at raiding that without full 935 you can't get at least 5/9 then you aren't killing Mistress, Maiden or Fallen Avatar.

A lot of outrage about nothing. Maybe you just need something to be angry about, dunno.

infracted

[-Joker-]

Not sure why anyone is even concerned about how other players play the game, or spend their money. If I spend $200 on tokens and choose to buy gear to catch up, that is my concern. If I choose to raid 6 days a week to get BiS gear, that is also MY concern. No one should care about how other people choose to play the game THEY pay for. Your spending habits have ZERO consequences on my fun level. We are likely not in the same guild, or the same caliber player, so the likelihood of me running into you and ruining your gaming experience is slim to none. If more people spent time focusing on themselves, and less time throwing around terms they don't understand, the game (and this forum) would be a better place. Also, the only way to win at WoW:

- Have every achievement in the game
- Have every Race/Class/Faction combo leveled to max with max BiS gear
- Be gold capped
- Own every mount, pet, and piece of transmog gear for all Classes
- Be the first person to finish the game when Blizz announces no more expacs

Then, and ONLY then, have you "won" the game. Until that moment is attainable, the phrase "pay to win" is clickbait for those with a clear misunderstanding of the phrase.

[enragedgorilla]

Weird and funny , Pay to Win means something completely different to me.
My version, A link on Blizz's store that you can buy items that will directly give your toon's a benefit , in game that others who will not pay for those items, can not benefit from.
i.e. Gear that gives your account/toon Armor/weapons/Items with a MASSIVE benefit over stuff you can get in game.(if they ever had Lego's on the store).
Currently, Store items consist of Mog items, Mounts, Pets and account services.

You can quibble over the fact that tokens are"pay to win" however I disagree with that thought , how you use the token AFTER it is sold for gold OR game time is entirely up to you.

My thinking is based on my RL job, what I make vs. the amount of time it would take me to get "items x" or make "x amount of Gold via AH shenanigans / farming".
For my income level, currently the in game stuff cost FAR outweighs the amount of actual time I would need to spend , in game on grinding .

That is for my case though.
.Oh and...I do not give a 2nd thought how other folks justify their money in game.
To each their own.

[-Joker-]

Then we rather call it Pay To Reach your goals thousand times faster, while others spending hours upon hours, you can get it with a single click.

Other players have the same opportunity to get a better job with a surplus of cash to supplement the hundreds of hours of playtime it takes to get to that goal. Don't know about you, but my wife, two kids, two cars, mortgage, and business are all priorities over a video game that I play to relax a few hours a week. If I choose to spend $200 to catch up, that's my business... not yours.

[KaPe]

So if I understand correctly, this is about two item slots, with third being a shitty trinket, being upgradeable to 935. Most likely not happening until the new tier gets released *and* still requiring the player to farm some of the reagents. The same as current Obliterum, which was delayed for a while. Or how World Quest rewards will likely get an item bump.

Sounds like the usual thread that appears every once in a while, with the OP convinced that this one thing is finally the last straw, a clear proof that the game became a total pay to win. I remember something like that in WoD, with someone claiming that outdated Apexis gear being buyable for gold was a P2W mechanic. I don't even remember if it was eventually a thing in live server, but the poster was entirely convinced that hordes of whales will be "winning" the game through inferior items.

But whatever. Go "win" some crafting gear by spending ton of gold or real life cash. That will sure show those mythic raiders, they'll cry all over their >30 ilvl better loot.

[Ealyssa]

However several people would pay for it.

Who ? Any proof ?

Or just 100% bullshit ?

[Deleted]

Only less than 1% of playerbase have 935+ item level epics. If you spend money you may not be better than than top 0.1%, but be better than the bottom 99%.

I see you're still taking the dishonest approach of saying that ilvl immediately equates to being a better player whilst ignoring people telling you that ilvl is a minor factor when you take tier/legendaries into account.

If you can't accept simple truth then you're just ignorant.

[Dasani]

Life is pay to win, you need to just get over it.

If you have enough money, you can buy a large, luxurious mansion to live in, an expensive attention catching sports car, a beautiful wife, you can hire an entire team of asians to play your account 24/7 to ensure your world quests are being done every day as often as physically possible as well as grinding any other tedious thing.

Hell with enough money, you could just buy the damn company and make whatever changes you wanted to it and give yourself literally everything.

Money makes the world go round. It is why the news cares more about sensationalism than actual news, it is why awards ceremonies for acting, music, and so on exist, it is why sports is actually something people know and care about instead of just being "that thing you did in school for a while" then no one cared about after that.

It is why The Mandarin in the iron man movies was changed from a chinese person to a generic "terrorist" (even though not even that really) because China is a huge market for movies these days and Hollywood won't make movies that make china look bad in any way.

Money controls everything. Praise capitalism.

So yeah, your crappy MMO isn't safe from PAY TO WIN, because that is how life works. If you throw enough money at WOW, you will have more and better stuff than anyone else in WOW, this is a fact that can only be disputed by delusional people but complaining about it is a utterly pointless waste of your time and effort because capitalism isn't going away.

[Logwyn]

It's textbook P2W, however I don't see anyone paying that much for it.

I guess it depends on what "winning" is.