I'm calling it now. The Rock will be President of the US in 2020.

[mvaliz]

[MENTION=1044481]
Blaming the voters isn't going to fix anything as it wasn't the voters fault. You need to blame the politicians for not earning those votes.

...how do you even logic this? That's like saying "Don't blame the truck driver for choosing to drive through that schoolyard full of playing children, because it wasn't his fault the alternative turnoff road had some pot-holes in it and it might've been a bumpy ride, it was the road construction workers fault!"

Blame Hillary for being a 10th of anything close to being as bad than Dumbass Dump? This argument of "blame the politician" would've worked durring Mitt Romney Vs Obama - but Hillary vs Dumbass Deplorable Dump!? Are you SERIOUS!?

You couldn't have made Donald Dump worse if you gave him a monocle and a handlebar mousetashe to twirl!

How...wow, I don't even...

[Fugus]

...how do you even logic this? That's like saying "Don't blame the truck driver for choosing to drive through that schoolyard full of playing children, because it wasn't his fault the alternative turnoff road had some pot-holes in it and it might've been a bumpy ride, it was the road construction workers fault!"

Blame Hillary for being a 10th of anything close to being as bad than Dumbass Dump? This argument of "blame the politician" would've worked durring Mitt Romney Vs Obama - but Hillary vs Dumbass Deplorable Dump!? Are you SERIOUS!?

You couldn't have made Donald Dump worse if you gave him a monocle and a handlebar mousetashe to twirl!

How...wow, I don't even...

You are making the mistake of calling the voters the truck driver, that would be the politician who decided to go that route which led to the school to begin with and refusing to change course knowing full well it could end up with them plowing through a school yard. That driver had an alternate route, they refused to take it. In your analogy, the voters were more like the children playing who got ran over by the driver.

The voters didn't cause it, the politician did.

I never said Clinton was near as bad as Trump. I said you blame her for not earning the votes, which she didn't do. Holding a metaphorical gun to the voters head to force them to vote isn't earning their votes.

Whether you like it or not, it isn't on the voters, it is on the politician. If she hadn't ran her voters off and given them something more to vote for, she would have had them. But just giving them a bigger bad to vote against leads many to just stay home.

[mvaliz]

You are making the mistake of calling the voters the truck driver, that would be the politician who decided to go that route which led to the school to begin with and refusing to change course knowing full well it could end up with them plowing through a school yard. That driver had an alternate route, they refused to take it. In your analogy, the voters were more like the children playing who got ran over by the driver.

You proved my analogy correct RIGHT in your own post via the boldfaced above. The driver (the voter) had a choice, they chose to destroy the country instead of Status Quo - and you damn well know that's the analogy.

The voters chose the direction of the bus to go. The politican(s) would be the decision - the obvious, slightly bumpy way (Clinton), or the criminally psychotic way (Dumbass Dump). Our total Votes = direction it will go. Voter is the only one who sees the two choices... they were the ones that made the choice - not the Politician. It's not that hard. Seriously - stop stretching this to protect your pride.

/end of discussion

[NYC17]

@NYC17

Since you skipped the last post I said and continue the victim complex. I will repeat it.



Now, you can continue blaming the voters incorrectly when you should be blaming the politicians, but you won't accomplish anything.

And to @mvallas

Sky High didn't fuck up and if the DNC and the politicians make the same mistake you are here then they may very well fuck up again in 2020 thinking they are entitled to votes and they don't have to earn them.

Blaming the voters isn't going to fix anything as it wasn't the voters fault. You need to blame the politicians for not earning those votes.

Blaming the voters for politicians failing to do their jobs is about like going to McDonalds and watching them horribly mess up an order they were clearly given and you start by blaming the customer for not being a better customer instead of the person who took the order and screwed it up.

I didn't "skip" it. I ignored your stupidity. Consider it a favor.

[mvaliz]

I didn't "skip" it. I ignored your stupidity. Consider it a favor.

I think you chose the wiser decision than me. I guess that makes my decision your fault - according to his stupid logic. :P

[Fugus]

You proved my analogy correct RIGHT in your own post via the boldfaced above. The driver (the voter) had a choice, they chose to destroy the country instead of Status Quo - and you damn well know that's the analogy.

The voters chose the direction of the bus to go. The politican(s) would be the decision - the obvious way, or the criminal way. Our Vote = direction it will go. It's not that hard. Seriously - stop stretching this to protect your pride.

/end of discussion

Will make a slight correction in it then. Because you seem to have it in your head that the politician was entitled to the votes and they didn't have to earn it.

The correction, the voters weren't the children, they were the cargo. This truck driver decided to ignore its cargo and go joy riding knowing it could lead to the school yard and continued to do so thinking the cargo was already theirs and they didn't have to worry about it and it would wait for them.

Sorry, I am trying to do it as accurately as I can but you gave such a piss poor analogy to work with. The voters job was not to chase the politician, the politician was not entitled to them votes. The politician's job is to earn the votes, instead Clinton decided to put a metaphorical gun to their heads with their pied piper strategy and thinking she had them because they were effectively hostages.

The voters didn't drive this bus, the politician did.

Stop trying to think the voters job was to chase Clinton and failed, it wasn't their job. It was Clinton's job to chase the voters and earn their votes, SHE failed.


You are right, the thread did end because your logic did a divide by zero and crashed the whole program.

[mvaliz]

Question.

What specifically was it about Hilary that made her unelectable vs. what Trump's policy was. On like anything?

That's my point I was trying to make to him.

This isn't about "who sold it the best/worst". Hillary COULDN'T sell it worse than Dumbass Dump by a mile - it was the hateful traitors who voted for him combined with the horribly selfish and apathetic who chose "Bust America" over any choice at all.

[Fugus]

I didn't "skip" it. I ignored your stupidity. Consider it a favor.

Ah, you would rather be ignorant and blame everyone letting your stupidity shine their than actually look at how stuff is supposed to run, gotcha. Enjoy being wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Question.

What specifically was it about Hilary that made her unelectable vs. what Trump's policy was. On like anything?

It wasn't just against Trump, it was in total.

I was against the TPP, she was in favor of it. She claimed to be against it to during the primary but quickly dropped it and given her history and what was told around here, it was safe to think she would consider it.

I was against money in politics, she is in favor of it.

I was for a $15 minimum wage. She was against it and was willing to go smaller but again mainly moved to placate primary voters and was expected to compromise that down as well.

Then it also came down to her actions in the primary which actually ran off the voters. The final slap in the face for me was after Debbie and Donna both were forced to resign due to their cheating only to have Clinton immediately snatch Debbie up and put her in her campaign to reward her for cheating. That was the final straw that cost her my vote.

Policies can earn voters just like actions and cheating can lose them.

Her policies, while better than Trumps were still not the best, but her actions during the primary were awful and turned her off to me as someone to spend my vote on.

[mvaliz]

Will make a slight correction in it then. Because you seem to have it in your head that the politician was entitled to the votes and they didn't have to earn it.

And you seem to have it in your head that the average dimwit is completely unable to see that chewing on razors is worse than eating a bruised apple. Is it the Grocer's fault to have to tell the person "Don't eat the razors, eat this apple instead!" and the person says "nah, I don't trust you" and begins eating the razors!? Seriously!? Like...SERIOUSLY!? if it was a choice between two sour apples (again, Romney/Obama) I could understand your point - but... Razors and apples? Seriously?

You seem to have it in your head that Democracy isn't a choice made by voters, for some reason.

As the above person asked - how, in the name of FUCK, did Hillary sell herself worse than Dumbass Donald? How was she worse than "I move in on them like a bitch/Grab them by the pussy" Assaulting Donald (to name a scant few)? This one is on the voters and the apathetic, not Hillary/Dump.

[Fugus]

And Trump's actions?

This whole post is just mind boggling to me. You allowed Trump to win because Hilary "might" things even though you knew Trump was going to fuck you right in the ass. I'll never understand it.

I didn't allow Trump to win, I didn't vote for Trump and I didn't cause Clinton to run her voters off.

I didn't want Trump to win either, but I could not vote for Clinton either. I voted against them both because neither of them deserved the job and I wasn't trying to throw my vote away on someone I don't want.

It isn't mind boggling when you think about it in the proper context.

1) It isn't the job of the voters to chase the politician, it never was and it wasn't during this election either.
2) It is the job of the politician to chase the voters and earn their votes. It has been for longer than either of us has been alive and was during this election.
3) Clinton failed to earn the votes. She should have tried harder to avoid running the voters off with her actions during the primary. If she hadn't pulled what she did, she wouldn't have ran them off.

4) The people who didn't vote for Clinton didn't mean they supported Trump, just meant they didn't support Clinton.



If you want to blame anyone or anything there is only 3 things you can realistically blame and still be correct.

1) You can blame Clinton for running off the voters with her actions. She might have lost the primaries if she hadn't done it but people would have been more willing to vote for her if she had won if she had did it legitimately.

2) You can blame the Winner-Take-All system that disenfranchises voters in all states big and small.

3) You can blame our election system that is setup to prevent more than 2 parties from forming and allowing for spoiler votes to begin with.


Blaming the voters is not on that list because it wasn't their job to chase her down. Even if Clinton worked to put Trump up to put a metaphorical gun to the voters head, it still wasn't their job to vote for her.

Blame Clinton for running her voters off, blame Clinton for meddling in the Republican primary to prop Trump up to try and get him elected to run against her, but you can't blame the voters for not voting for her after her actions ran them off.

[Fugus]

No man. I blame people like you. You saw what Trump was. You choose to do nothing. And now everyday is a shit show and our country looks like a laughing stock. There was and adult choice to make , some of us did.

You can blame me, you will be doing it incorrectly but have at it.

You are blaming me for not voting for the candidate I didn't want and had actively worked to run my vote off thinking she didn't need it or I had no choice thinking she was entitled to the presidency. When you should be blaming Clinton for thinking she was entitled to my vote and didn't have to do anything to earn it because she put a gun to my head with Trump on the other end.

This "Blame the Voters instead of the politician" thing you have going is setting up Clinton to play the victim of how "Clinton would have won if only the voters did their jobs and voted for her instead of against her".

It isn't my job to vote for her, it was her job to earn my vote and she failed to do so.

Sorry you keep trying to blame the wrong people but that is all you are doing and if they try this mindset in 2020, they risk losing again. Stop thinking people will turn out to vote against something, many won't. They turn out to vote FOR something. And "Not Trump" was just turning out to vote against something you don't want with something else you also don't want.

[Fugus]

Spare me. You had choice at the end. Your choice was part of the reason Trump is in office.

Choice A- Bruised arm.
Choice B- Gunshot wound that will also effect others.
Choice C- Not choosing, which means you can get B.

Yes, it sucks that you would have to choose A. Lot's of people did not want to. But as an adult you choose A, work on fixing it and hopefully everything is fine in the end. If you choose B or C, I am not going to give you a pass. You were willing to risk it, and look what happened.

No, my choice was

1) Vote Trump, an ignorant buffoon and corrupt individual. A no go.
2) Vote Clinton, the person who's policies I don't agree with on some key issues and who had cheated in the primaries to get past a candidate I saw as superior.

This was another no go because that would be voting for the candidate who cheated and robbed my preferred choice of a legit shot. Also part of the reason choice 1 was even there as she actively worked to put Trump in that spot to run to run against.

3) Stay home or otherwise vote 3rd party. This is what I chose.

Sucks we have Trump in office, but hopefully it teaches the politicians they aren't entitled to votes no matter who they are running against and that cheating and slapping your voters in the face with it is a good way to run your voters off.

Hopefully they learn this lesson or they may be doomed to repeat it. It was never my job to chase down Clinton and forgive her of her actions than vote her anyways.

I am not voting for someone I don't like, metaphorical gun to my head or otherwise, I will vote 3rd party or stay home before I willingly vote for the candidate who puts me in that situation.

You keep blaming me for not choosing choice A. Incidentally which would be more like voting to having both legs broken while appointing the person that screwed you over and laughed at you while doing it to be your leader.

When you should be blaming the candidate who had a choice themselves beforehand and knowingly made those choices the options to begin with when they could have done better but got greedy and tried making sure the best option was them no matter what.

Clinton made the choice before hand knowing the risks and chose to make those her options trying to force people to vote for her even if they disliked it because she put a gun to their head on the issue.

[Fugus]

And we will probably get Trump if people keep passing the blame. Never change Bernie Bro's.

Probably, you keep passing that blame hardcore like a game of hot potato trying to keep it from landing where it belongs. Too many apologist trying to protect her and hold Clinton up as the victim from those dirty voters who refused to vote for her even though she tried to run them off.

[Elegiac]

Probably, you keep passing that blame hardcore like a game of hot potato trying to keep it from landing where it belongs. Too many apologist trying to protect her and hold Clinton up as the victim from those dirty voters who refused to vote for her even though she tried to run them off.

No one is apologising for Clinton. All we want is for you to admit this simple fact; you chose vanity over the right thing, which was keeping Trump out of power.

[Fugus]

No one is apologising for Clinton. All we want is for you to admit this simple fact; you chose vanity over the right thing, which was keeping Trump out of power.

No, I did not choose vanity over the right thing. I chose to vote against both Trump and the person who cheated and robbed the people of a proper primary against what many saw as a better choice.There was no right option in that election, just different levels of wrong actions.

You may not be apologizing for Clinton, NYC17 certainly appears to be though.

The right thing wasn't me voting for Clinton and rewarding her actions. The right thing would have been Clinton and party not doing those things to begin with.

That is like someone destroying the car you wanted and was trying to buy to force you to buy their inferior and overpriced model instead. Would you honestly play that game willingly?

[Garnier Fructis]

Probably, you keep passing that blame hardcore like a game of hot potato trying to keep it from landing where it belongs.

The blame belongs with every single person that cast a vote for Trump. Assigning the fault to anyone else is like driving a car into a tree and then defending oneself by saying that the other guy presented a poor case for not driving into the tree.

[Fugus]

The blame belongs with every single person that cast a vote for Trump. Assigning the fault to anyone else is like driving a car into a tree and then defending oneself by saying that the other guy presented a poor case for not driving into the tree.

I am kinda torn on that one.

For the ones who voted for Trump thinking he would really help or be a good thing, I can't really say too much about them. For the ones who continue to think he was the better option after all has been shown, yeah. Those people are sad.

I wasn't so much talking about the Trump winning aspect of it so much as I was on the other end of the coin with Clinton losing.

Clinton had all she needed to win if she had just did her shit right. She threw away all those assets thinking she was entitled to win and refused to actually do anything to earn it.

Blaming the voters for Clinton losing for not voting for her is the whole thing I am trying to explain. It was never the voters job to vote for her, she was never entitled to those votes, it was her job to earn them. She had the easiest time in the world earning them which she failed to do and instead actively ran them off thinking they had no choice.