WoW is becoming more Pay To Win than ever with the next patch.

[Deathquoi]

I mentioned it like 3 times before. I don't think it's worth giving time to explain anymore.



Time is money, friend!

You're right, anyone who is truly convinced WoW tokens represent some kind of P2W system is unlikely to allow a silly thing like logic to get in the way of their whining.

[Cyram]

Uh, you could get 890 gear from farming some shit for a bit, which was the equivalent of Heroic Nighthold / Normal Tomb of Sargeras - which is a catchup mechanic that's been in the game since... well, Mists of Pandaria? (Cataclysm still had the justice vendors)
And the crafted gear that competes with the current ilvl of Normal is been in since... well, since forever, especially BoE gear.
Remember ICC's recipes? The pants and gloves from Dragon Soul? The celestial cloth pants from Pandaria and the weird blood upgrades from Draenor that let you upgrade up until ilvl 700?
... why are you complaining NOW when this has been in here since forever?

[Lykaboss]

Just because they will outgear the raid doesnt mean at all that they can clear mythic content. HC NH geared raids have failed in mythic EN lol

[Arnoux]

Uh, you could get 890 gear from farming some shit for a bit, which was the equivalent of Heroic Nighthold / Normal Tomb of Sargeras - which is a catchup mechanic that's been in the game since... well, Mists of Pandaria? (Cataclysm still had the justice vendors)
And the crafted gear that competes with the current ilvl of Normal is been in since... well, since forever, especially BoE gear.
Remember ICC's recipes? The pants and gloves from Dragon Soul? The celestial cloth pants from Pandaria and the weird blood upgrades from Draenor that let you upgrade up until ilvl 700?
... why are you complaining NOW when this has been in here since forever?

Why is it even relevant when I complain? Maybe I did not really play too much at that time. Probably I have played on private server at that time and there were no way to buy gold with cash there. (There was no WoW Token)

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Why would it matter? I'd be more than willing to sticky this thread and give you the sims if 7.3 rolls out with the crafted gear upgrades.

I said it in my previous post why would it matter. Compare my shitty 890-910 items, which I have gained by hours and hours of playing with those 935 crafted. I don't even have set bonus.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes. So those people value their time more than use it you used to farm for a piece of gear. They may have wasted their money, but they did not waste their time. It is what people value more.

You will find that people with money value time more.

People will more time value money more.

You have time. They have money.

I may not have did anything in game. But I did something else more valuable to me with that time elsewhere.

Then if people live their lives outside of game, let them buy things in real life, not in a game where you are required to buy the base game, the expansion and monthly fee.

Who said I have more free time than them? I can spend 10k euros on the game now and won't starve even if I had no job. I can even buy the whole crafted gear with gold, because I play some AH game.

That does not mean I have spent a single cent on buying in game stuff with real money and still I don't have more free time than others. Still system like this should only exist in a free game, not in a sub based game.

[mhdoe]

Not even close to pay to win the gear most likely will not be released till the raid comes out which means this is just catch up gear. Not to mention no set bonus and horrible trinkets. But what this post does show is how people are still stuck in a item level mind set. You could have a 10 point item level advantage over the average heroic raider and still not be able to put up the same numbers without set bonuses and gear with the right stats.

[Arnoux]

Not even close to pay to win the gear most likely will not be released till the raid comes out which means this is just catch up gear. Not to mention no set bonus and horrible trinkets. But what this post does show is how people are still stuck in a item level mind set. You could have a 10 point item level advantage over the average heroic raider and still not be able to put up the same numbers without set bonuses and gear with the right stats.

Valid points. Others have already pointed out. If the items will release when the new tier releases, then that is way better.

[Mister Cheese]

Yes because people want unoptimized, non-tier gear that becomes obsolete in two months. This is so stupid.

[Deleted]

I said it in my previous post why would it matter. Compare my shitty 890-910 items, which I have gained by hours and hours of playing with those 935 crafted. I don't even have set bonus.

So this whole discussion was anecdotal at best and downright misleading at worst.

[TheRogue]

People really don't understand what Pay2Win means.

[Raugnaut]

It would be pay to win if that was available NOW, rather then when Argus hits. However, by the time Argus actually hits, most mythic raiders will be at, or above, 930 ilvl, especially with titanforge and Mythic+. Its closer to pay-to-catchup.

[Maquegyver]

Pay2Win would be buying Mt20 for cash and buying ahead of the curve and cutting edge for money through blizzard. Having gear in WoW absolutely does not equate to being good. This is not that.

[sgthotrod]

Mythic gear does not make you a Mythic raider.

[nyc81991]

Am I missing something? I see nothing about paying real money...?

[Deleted]

Am I missing something? I see nothing about paying real money...?

Apparently it goes: money>token>gold>crafted gear.

Not that it matters anyway. It's already been proven that full crafted gear (potentially costing millions of gold and hundreds of dollars/euros/pounds) puts you at a worse state than someone who raids LFR.

[Deleted]

Didnt you say "Mythic Raiding"?

I was sure you said that. Thats what nobody have time for xD

I mean that gear will be the equivalent of lfr or normal antorus at best and will undoubtably be very costly to craft and buy.

[KaPe]

Even if it's not pay2win, I still can't believe players are defending shit like this. Tolerating more and more WILL lead to real pay2win someday. From a players point of view, obtaining gear other than by playing the game shouldn't be accepted at all.

What exactly are you "tolerating" here? Selling craftable items through auction house/direct trade? Something that has been possible since vanilla and every single expansion since then? This particular case is simply updating the item level to what will become standard once new raid arrives. Exactly the same thing that happened with Obliterum after each tier.

I mean, hell, just few days ago I sold 930 BoE item from ToS trash. It's entirely possible that the buyer got their gold through token. Was that pay-to-win? What did he win? Did I not get the item by playing the game and then decided to sell it? How would that be different from crafting it? How is it any different from selling BoE legendaries, which have even higher ilvl?

People like you have been crying for years how this supposedly leads to pay-to-win and how we're just one step away from items being sold in Blizzard store. None of this has happened and certainly not because you somehow valiantly fought against it.

[FelPlague]

he means you can buy gold with money through blizzard now, legally paying to win wasn't possible until the tokens became a thing, now i can hit the gold cap and buy whatever i want with real money legally via blizzard

that's his main point, BIS shouldn't be obtainable with real money and it is

blizz was against it for a decade for this very reason, now they are simply cashing in on it

except it isnt, the crafted gear is not BIS

[tennesine]

Well since we are making up the term "pay to win" then I could argue that heirlooms are "pay to win". I mean they cost gold but a couple of wow tokens and I could purchase them all and the upgrades. Now I have 110 levels of all classes of gear and i apparently "paid to win" that too.

WTF is this thread, seriously?

[ls-]

WTF is this thread, seriously?

An asspull

[ryan1mcq]

It's quite concerning that the OP doesn't seem to quite understand what pay to win actually means....